The main difference you may notice between the two as far as how they shoot.. is the fact that the 6 7/8 has a longer sight radius (distance between front and rear sights).......this MAY help YOU.......but the gun does not particularly care ........weight and balance will likely be a bigger factor..and the 5.5 has quite excellent balance. Sight radius will not matter if you are usind a Dot. I have both, and the 6 7/8 is nice for Iron sight use,, yet my 5.5 shoots just as tight,,, also if you are going add the Volq parts,,, the trigger pull that some say is better on the 678G, is getting replaced anyway. pick em up...hold em...maybe even hold the weight of the dot on top to see how they feel.....that is what matters!!! A MKII with Volq hammer and sear is a GREAT pistol
good luck and hey...visit the new forum linked at top Aimhigh
I am buying a limited edition S&W model 22A. I just wondered if anyone on this forem had any experience with them and if anyone knew of any modifications that should be done to one. Thanks for your help guys. Also if anyone has run across anyone who might sell some aftermarket parts for my gun I may be interested.
A friend bought a couple of 22As about the time I bought my 5.5" ruger. They are some of the best FEELING (grip, trigger) 22s I have ever shot.
But from the bench, my MKII, has always been MUCH more accurate. Now that I have added a few extras, both free hand and off the bench the MKII is better.
He also needs to replace a buffer every so often.
If accuracy is what you are after buy a SW41 if you do not want a ruger. The SW22A will never be very accurate.
I'm glad to hear that the guns have some good qualities. This will be my first pistol. I turn 21 on Feb 1 and I just have to go pick up the gun now and run that background check. When you say that your MkII is MUCH more accurate, how bad is the S&W? The gun I am buying is some sort of limited edition barrel that is 6" instead of 5 1/2" It is ported and the gun has a few other features I can't think of right now so I am hoping that it may be more accurate than the run of the mill variety of 22A. I'll post again when I get it in. Thanks for the input. Hope to hear from you again soon.
As fate would have it, I went shooting over lunch with my 22A friend and had a chance to bench rest shoot both the pistols. Here are the details.
22A 5.5” barrel with 1” ultradot
Ruger 5.5” bull barrel with PDP2 red dot
We used whatever ammo our guns liked best. Mine was both CHEAP federal Lightning and Gold Match ($15/500)
I am not sure what his was.
We shoot at 3/4”dots at 50’
My 10 shoot groups varied between 7/8” and 1 ¼”
His were1 5/8” to 2”
Both are accurate.
My trigger with the abundance of after market parts is MUCH nicer making for a better one-hand experience.
Just one point of view.
I can not see anything inherently inaccurate in the 22A. The setup you are getting could very well give you excellent results.
Stick viagra in your clip first you faggot!! Sorry to all of you who write to this forum in a mature way, but people like this really piss me off. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
I haven't shot the limited edition, but I've shot other S&W 22A's. IMO, they are good, accurate guns, but I prefer the Rugers (this is mainly a MkII - 22/45 forum, so I'm probably a little bit biased). I had some jamming problems with the 22A's that I shot.
The S&W 41's are awesome and the 22A's are a couple notches lower, but still good.
You might want to check out the Hammerli Trailside.
Very accurate for most ammo and each pistol comes with a test target which ensure they all shoot not more than 1" from 25 meters.
I was just reading an article in Shooting Times (March 2000) about the trailside. 25 yds accuracy averages 0.73".Using CCI Pistol Match ammo, the pistol produces 0.33" accuracy for the Standard 6" barreled model. Now that's a tack driver !
Cost is about the same as Rugers and it comes with a weaver rail so you save on buying a scope mount.
I've used the S&W 5.5 22s for indoor shooting for 3 years,and never had a problem with jams or inaccuracy. Most of the shooters in our club use Rugers,some use sig/hammerli comp. and S&W's mod.41. Personally I like the triggers in the Smiths over the Rugers, and I think they shoot a little better with the right ammo. I also have a Ruger MK2 which I like to shoot for indoor target for the reason that there is a lot more aftermarket products for the Rugers,which makes them more easier to set up for your own shooting purpose. IMO;;;;; I would be very happy with either pistol. If I wasn't very serious about competition shooting but still wanted a very accurate pistol I would buy the S&W.
I'm not trying to scare you but both had problems. It seems that both owners complained about a nylon bushing on the frame that stopped the bolt on backstroke. I don't know if they had problems or it was an engineering problem. The backstroke area where the bolt stopped got hammered and in the end messed up the the cycle action.
I would say if you have the money for a 41 get one. If you don't get the Ruger.
How do the Rugers compare to other .22's? I posted earlier my wife bought me a KMK678GC as a Christmas/Wedding gift. I love it!
I am curious how this pistol compares to S&W 41, Sig Trailside, Brownings, etc.
Thanks,
Cruiservlx
I don't like the S&W, but except for a few of them, they are excellent guns. The Ruger needs some help in the trigger department to compare favorably with it.
Had a Trailside Competition and it was a real disappointment. Trigger was good, but the slide stop wore out twice and the plastic mags need adjustment - between my gun and a bud's three of four mags were unreliable until we tweaked the lips. Remarkably, they seemed to hold the adjustment. Thumbs down.
Buckmarks are made to tighter tolerances inside, and the triggers are better from the factory. I own and love Rugers and Brownings both, so this statement isn't a "my Chevy is better than your Ford" argument. I have had several of each brand down to the bare frame, and there is more play in the Ruger. The play doesn't seem to interfere with accuracy or reliability.
All of the above pistols will do dime-sized groups of of bags at 50 feet with ammo they like, and none of them has expensive tastes. The all-around best grouping ammo I have come across is Winchester Dynapoints and CCI Standard velocity. The CCI are slightly more reliable.
If I were heading to the gun store for a pistol tonight, I'd be happy with either a Ruger Comp Target or a Browning 5,5 Target..................chim
How does Ruger MkII compare to S&W, Browning, Sig, etc.?
by
Well, if you have any hope of customizing a .22 pistol, parts and gizmos for doing so absolutely abound for the Ruger MkII (in Brownell's catalog, OnTarget, etc.) to an extent that they absolutely don't for the competitors!
Aftermarket parts and gizmos for customizing the others are notoriously absent from Brownell's catalog. Maybe that's a chicken-and-egg thing - or maybe it just means nearly nobody's interested in customizing the S&W, Browning, or Sig.
I've shot Rugers, 41's, and the trailside. I actually liked the hand feel of the other two better, but I only own Rugers, a MkII and a 22/45. I shoot a lot and suspect that my Rugers will still be shooting long after the others would have turned into piles of debris.
I have a Clark-barreled .22/45 a KMKII 4B" and a Sig Trailside. The Sig is the most accurate and best feeling of the 3, but also the least reliable (as Chim mentioned). Fortunately (knock on wood), I've only had mag problems with it. And with the Tasco Optima and ergo grips it's really a kick to shoot.
The 2 Rugers are like machines-never a jam no matter what I put through them. The SS 4" bull barrel is also fun especially with laseraim grips.
If you want a solid non-nonsense gun that can be modified almost like a 1911 - go with the Rugers. If you want more sophistication the more costly S&W 41 or Sig Trailside will suffice.
They may not be as consistent in their ignition of the gun powder, but other than that they should be fine. If I had a spare brick laying around, I would take it out and shoot it up in an afternoon and then clean the gun really good and have some good memories out of it if you can. Maybe learn something new.
I started shooting my 22's the last couple of years with about ten bricks of Win Super-X solids and have had maybe five to eight miss fires (and mainly due to not seating the magazine properly).
So, just from my experience, and depending on what ammo it is, enjoy it!
I currently have a Ruger Standard Model Pistol with a 4 3/4" barrel and I am thinking about buying a 22/45 either a P-4 or P-5 1/2. The problem is I have smaller hands and the grip does not fit my hand as well. Has any one had any experience with altering the synthetic grip frame. Can it be contoured with a Dremel tool, file or some other tool. Does any one have any pictures where they have done this? I know the folks at Clark Guns do some of this work at least as far as relieving the trigger guard area. Any information you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading my post.
I'm not sure how any mods would work out on the 22/45 but there are some very experienced shooters at our new site that might be able to help you out with this one. Our new forum is:
I recently filed down the ridges on my grips even with the frame, drilled and tapped holes, and screwed in 1911 grip bushings. With Pachmeyer signature wrap-around grips it is fatter than it was before but for me that's ok (I have big hands). If I did it again I would do more of the work with a Dremel router bit.
Hi, i am starting to be interested in Target shooting. I am trying to learn the sport before i buy a more expensive gun. I am currently deciding between a few guns. First is the Ruger MK 2 WMK512. It is a stainless steel version of the MK2. The Smith and Wesson 22s. It is also stainless, it also has scope and optics mount. A SW model 41 is also a good choice, but it is way too expensive for my first target gun. Or a Browning Bull. Which one is the best. I am looking for accuracy and quality. I am not going to modify the gun yet. Maybe until i get better.
Well, IMO, if you're just beginning, the Ruger KMK-678 target model is excellent. It's got a target barrel and Stainless finish.
There are tons of accessories which are both cheap and available - most don't require gunsmith installation.
In this regard the Ruger is an advantage as opposed to smith or browning. I have yet to see accessories available for Browning. I've read some complaints on the Smith model 22s in other forums.
Accuracy wise, they are all similar. So I suggest you get the ruger, install the cool mods as you go along. Then if you feel you're up to it...the Smith Model 41 could be the next purchase. Although I reckon that you would be enjoying the ruger too much, you might opt for the slabside competition model instead.
This last weekend I had a couple of hours of free time and went to the shooting range. I rented the S&W model 41 with a 5.5in barrel. A couple of weeks ago I shot a friend's (hey Josh) MKII, with all the upgrades. I liked the MKII much better. It was not only more accurate, but had less jams or misfires. I understand the model 41 was a rental and maybe didn't have the best of care, but I know which gun I would buy.
There's advantages and disadvantages to both. M-41's are very tempermental. Get one to feed right and it'll treat you well. Mark II's can have feeding problems but the trigger is the biggest drawback. Too much travel, even when tweaked. A M-41's trigger barely moves at all.
Both can hold their own on the line. I like the avalibility of custom parts for the Ruger.
The balance of the M-41 with the bull barrel is much better than the Mark II. Until I made my own custom walnut grips, the Mark II pistol was very front heavy. Now, I get about the same balance from my 5.5 inch Bull Ruger as I do from my 5.5 inch Bull M-41.
In the final analysis, the cost of the Ruger is much more attractive than the M-41. I can get a two for one at today's current prices. When I bought my M-41 they were only $300 new, so it's been around the block a time or two. Enjoy your choice.
R,
Bullseye
Hey Doug, I'm glad to hear that my gun could hold its own with the S&W41. I haven't shot my pistol in nearly a week and it is killing me, but time is just one of those things I never have enough of. Let me know whenever you end up buying your gun and accessories. I look forward to getting together and doing some work on your gun and putting a couple of bricks down range. Talk to you soon...
So far I've not seen a stock Ruger MKII that would shoot with my stock S&W Model 41 (Of course there are always exceptions). The 41 does not feed all ammo well but I've shoot some real nice groups with Standard vel CCI with no jams. All that being said I do like the Ruger pistol. If the price difference between the two pistols were invested in the Ruger, you would probably have a gun that would shoot as well if not better than the 41.
The Ruger Comp Target is fine, as is the Buckmark 5.5 Target or 5.5 Field. The Ruger comes w/ scope rings (1" that they have swapped for 30MM for some customers). Those Brownings come with a full-length Weaver type rib, and all the dots I'm familiar with will bolt right on. The Browning triggers are generally better out of the box, but are more difficult to work on if you really want them tweaked.
I like the grip angle of the 22/45 better than the steel-framed MKII, but there are limitations on what you can do for the 22/45 grips without major work.
I'd stay away from the S&W pistols, with the exception of the 41.
Another one to consider is the Baikal IZH35. It has screws to adjust sear engagement, trigger overtravel, pull weight, trigger length, etc. Instead of buying a bunch of aftermarket parts, you can make it pretty much the way you like it by adjusting the screws. The weak point is you must loctite the barrel shroud and scope rail to keep them from working loose...........chim
22/45 anyone experienced any major machanical problems
by
Curios to any major problems. I have owned a markI, markII and now a 22/45. My local gunsmith keeps giving me his 2cents worth about the gun and how it will not hold up for the long term.
so far appx. 4000 rds and getting better. all factory, except the hakko bed-35 holosights.(great looking) sights weigh appx. 1 oz so an afternoon of shooting doesn't make you so limp wristed and tired. A little pricy though. But after all it is an investment just like anthing else one cherishes.
Thorough sampling of numerous P22/45 owners reveals their major complaint as the plastic grips are too slippery for consistent grasping. Many have come up with inventive DIY methods for overcoming the situation. I've seen things from; slip on accessories, the addition of skateboard grip tape, non-skid epoxy adhesive, to milling off the old plastic grips and installing cut-down colt replacement panels.
To date, none have indicated any problems with the durability or longevity of this pistol. Perhaps your gunsmith has some biases or alterior motives concerning this Ruger pistol model. I have long considered purchasing one myself and I have recommended P22/45's to several people (including my own father) after I had thoroughly tested them.
even though the grips are zytel type of material, i have had no problems with slippage. I think his bias comes from the new age technology being integrated into these guns. he's from the school where if it works - dont change it. him being a gunsmith i can his point of exchanging steel for a plastic composite. i would of prefered steel with replaceable grips, but i like it and enjoy the gun very much.
thanks for the imput
I just finished doing the "2000 round service" on my 22/45. I like it a lot. It breaks down easy (did so from day one), although it does take a little time to clean out the frame section. Thanks to comments on this site I was brave enough to tear down the entire bolt for the "2000 round service." (You guys know your stuff!)
Now I recently purchased a Browning Buckmark mostly 'cause it looked sexy. Yeah, the handgrips are nicer than my 22/45, but the Buckmark was noticeably more expensive, too. Tore the Buckmark down before shooting it to check it out - no problem. Shot 150 rounds and took it apart to clean it. The recoil spring retainer had fallen out and the spring came shooting across the garage. Wrote Browning and had to buy the minimum $5.00 worth of spare parts to get a new retainer (took two weeks and no "sorry you had problems with our gun" letter.) The parts were hard to decipher as there is no parts list or assembly diagram in the manual. Had to get the info from Browning's web site. Unfortunately my 650 PIII was too old to be able to properly download the diagram or the parts order form so I had to write 'em a letter.
If I decide to buy a bigger weapon can you guess whether it will be a Browning High Power or a Ruger P-95? Or is the answer obvious.
I HAVE OWNED A RUGER 22/45 FOR ALMOST 3 YEARS NOW, AND LOVE IT. I HAVE FIRED OVER 10,000 ROUND THROUGH IT (WHEN I SHOOT IT I SHOOT AT LEAST A BRICK OF 22'S) I HAVE EXPERIENCED ONLY ONE PROBLEM, A BROKEN BOLT STOP PIN. EVEN THOUGH THE GUN WAS TWO YEARS OLD, WHEN I PHONED RUGER THEY SENT ME A FREE REPLACEMENT PART. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS GUN FOR ANYONE LOOKING FOR A GOOD INEXPENSIVE 22 AUTO.
I've had two 2/45s for over a year, never field stripped, cleaned occasionally without disassembly, and thousands of rounds through each. An occasional stove pipe but nothing more serious. They just take a licking and keep on ticking! A Hogue slip-on solves the grip-slip complaint quite well for about $7. Have fun and shoot safe!
jmac, this reminds me of the story when I was looking to buy another Ruger 22, 15 years after selling my first one. I went to the range and they had both a Mark 2 and a 22/45 rental, neither one new. I shot both and then asked the guy behind the counter what he thought of each one. He came back with.......the 22/45 doesn't hold up as well. I said, what kind of problems have you had? He said they hadn't had any real problems with either of the guns. I said then whats the problem with the 22/45's? He said, the plastic won't last as long. In other words, he had made up his mind and didn't want to be confused with the fact that he had one right in front of him that seemed to be proving him wrong.
You can get a lemon in any gun but Ruger sure seems to have less of those than many other companies.
Just not as good as MkII - which is a fine gun. Ruger just didn't Loc-Tite front sight of at least some 22/45s - causing them to vibrate loose. Jams - due to different feed angle and different mag latching system, in opinion of both rangemaster and gun shop salesman. Mags come unlatched spontaneously during shooting. But the MkII is fine.
I have never had those problems with mine, and I abuse the crap out of mine. What I love about my 22/45(P512) is the "Hockey Puck" principle, next one i get is going to be stainless. Couple of jams from crappy ammo is about it.............Joe
PS my friend who owns a MkI loves shooting my P512, he likes it better
Matt..haven't seen you here for a while...seems you continue a distaste for 22/45s
by Greg
I have not been scouting this forum as often as when I first purchased by 22/45s, after much shooting of the Mark II as well. You were posting often then and had the same position on the 22/45 as you do now. I have read your site links and know that you are a bit on the right side of my conservative bent, but urge you to give it another try.
If I get another one to try, I'll try 22/45s again
by
If I get another one to try, I'll again try the 22/45. But it does seem remarkable that my impression of that rent-a-gun one was exactly the same as my favorite counterman at my favorite gun shop - and that Class III manufacturers overwhelmingly prefer the MkII.
I do hope you try it again. It is a great gun also. So far, you and the counter gunman are the only two that I've heard of have this problem and you are still "sticking to your guns" so to speak. I have posted before that I had that problem but it was my fault from not fully snapping the clip in place. My 22/45 did need a little more pressure to make sure I heard the clip lock in place when fully loaded. I know you have said that was not the case. And I believe you. I know it is just human nature to form an opinion based on 1 experience. People do it every day. Otherwise the great Chevy/Ford debate would not be alive and well. After having a bad experience, most people don't go out and buy the same thing. But that doesn't always mean they're all crap. Don't let one bad apple ruin the whole bunch. Or something like that:) Now who lives close to Matt to let him shoot another 22/45?
Matt,
I own both the 22/45 and the ruger markII and am happy to say, i personally think these are the best (2) rimfires on the market.
It comes down to your prefenece on "what feels good to you" Grips, sights, asthetic looks of of the gun and so on make an impact on "your" personal feelings and perception of the gun.
open mindedness is the key to happiness and success!!
have fun, shoot, shoot, shoot! for me, its a peaceful meditation.
Matt Maggio wrote: "Jams - due to different feed angle and different mag latching system"
Matt, I do belive you and I have been threw this before. The feed angle, in relation to the bore line, of the MkII and the 22/45 is exactly the same. If you would compare the two pistols, you will see that the 22/45 accepts the mag at an angle steeper then the grip angle, making it identical to the angle of the MkII which accepts the mag at the same angle as the grip. Don't confuse the grip angles of the two pistols in relation to the mag angle. The mag angles are identical. As for the mag catch, you are correct, they are different. The problem most people have with a mag unintentionally dropping on a 22/45 is because they touch and / or bump the catch button on the 22/45. M1911 shooters don't have that problem because they have grown accustom to the location of the mag catch button. A stronger spring in the catch button on the 22/45 would cure that problem, for those that have a problem. I don't have that problem, so mine is still like it came from the factory. I use my 22/45 for the .22 portion of PPC matches at my local range. We draw from a holster, making the mag catch button vulnerable to unintentional drops of the mag. I have yet to have one problem with this happening. One just has to be aware of it, and it will not happen.
I have both a MKII and a 22/45 -- the 22/45 for over 3 years, and the MKII for almost 2. A couple of things that I would like to point out about these two different models is that the barrel/receiver on both is nearly identical. The only major difference that I'm aware of is the milled mount for the grip frame on the bottom of the receiver itself. The mount on the 22/45 seems a little bigger, deeper. Actually, I've heard that the MKII receiver will work on the 22/45 frame with a little work, but the 22/45 receiver won't fit properly on a MKII frame. Also, the magazines are the same except for the base plates and a small notch on the side of the 22/45 mag. So, you could swap the base plates and a 22/45 mag will work in a MKII, but the MKII mag won't work in the 22/45 because it lacks the notch on the side for the magazine latch. The point is that there is no mechanical difference between these two pistols. The only real difference is the grip frame itself, so the real question is which grip angle fits you better. Weight is a factor also. The 22/45 balances well with the 5 1/2" barrel, but I would think that anything longer (like the Davidson's pistols) would be noticably front heavy. As for durability, I haven't seen much of anything on the Zytel frame that could possibly wear out. I think it all comes down to personal choice. I've put thousands of rounds through both of mine, so my personal choice is that I'm not giving up either one!
The best response to your gunsmith is to ask him how many he has in his shop for repair. Since Ruger is the #1 in volume you might assume that the most number of guns he has in his shop are Ruger's.
I bought one and I dont like it. I put it on a MKII 512. It adds a little to the sight radius but kills the balance of the gun. It didnt seem to reduce the recoil of the gun. It didnt reduce the accuracy either. I have not tested the velocity but there is nothing to reduce it so I would say its the same.
Like I said, I dont like it but will leave it on for a few more weeks to see if it grows on me, if not, Im going to take it off and sell it. I cant imagine keeping it though, I really like the feel of the MKII 512 till that heavy bugger got on the end of my barrel.
Ruger collectors might be interested in the first published review of the then new .22 semi-auto pistol from Ruger. From 1949 issue of American Rifleman. eBay 3608344827.
Does anyone have any suggestions for replacing or improving the MK512 factory sights? I find it hard to get a good sight picture, especially against darker targets.
I've heard of guys that raid their wife's/sister's/mother's fingernail polish and find the most hideous color from the 80's that they have on hand. Put a li'l dab on the front sight and you're in business if that works for ya. Also our forum has moved to a new site, there might be more ideas for you over there at:
They make a replacement set of sights that are plastic rods that glow. Hi Viz makes them and maybe others. http://www.hivizsights.com/ruger.htm You can also put on a peep rear sight. Most people like the smaller hole of the two. http://www.oneraggedhole.com
www.rimfirecentral.com has had alot of discussion about this stuff reciently. Check the Ruger-Other room.
After barking up wrong trees, I finally began to suspect my magazines. I have 5 mags and numbered them, after 250 rounds I have found that only two perform well.
All mags are less than one year old and with one exception are Ruger. One of the "good" ones is a non ruger. I took them all apart and cleaned with carb cleaner and light oil and reassembled them turning spring around...still problems.
I know magazines are supposed to be suspect #1 with most semi-auto firearms, but that does not hold true in my experience with the Ruger Mk II. I'd make sure your gun is clean and LIGHTLY lubricated with a high quality product designed for firearms. Pay particular attention to the large slot in the bolt and the bolt stop pin. Next, I'd order and install a Volquartsen extractor. While you are at it, put in a trigger shield. Both available from OnTarget. Trigger shield will save lots of cleaning time. My Ruger took almost 2,000 rounds to break in, but has been great ever since. Good Luck.
Fred...
you may have already barked this tree..but depending upon how many rounds have been through you pistol, and that sometimes it takes 2,000 plus to get good smooth momentum of the bolt moving to the rear ,to whip emptys off the extractor, I'll offer my experiences with a few MKII's
Methinks of mags as leading to feed problems(jammed rounds) moreso than extraction (stovepipe)...
I have removed any burrs and polished all my bolts, and reciever insides LIGhtly with a dremmel as well as two very important areas IMO (1)on your bolt. there is a flat on both sides, of the top surface where the horse shoe shaped rear part of the recoil spring assy rides....and (2) the other end of the recoil assy that drops into the forward slot in the bolt(this curved area can actually drag on the interior of the reciever as the bolt moves rearward and can be polished)
Anyway areas of metal to metal will get friendly with one another in time but can use some help to speed them along. Also there is an area that contacts, and cocks the hammer each time that can be polished.
Anything that slows the momentum of that rearward movement can lead to a weaker bump when the empty needs to be slapped out of the way.. the "Exact Edge" extractor from On Target is alway a good addition and just may do the trick without polishing things but then....patience has never been one of my virtues
likely more than you needed to know.....
Aimhigh
Aimhigh has an excellent point which I overlooked. Magazines are more likely the problem with failures to feed. Polishing, either with tools, or by continued shooting should reduce your problem.
I appreciate your input. Perhaps I should have given a little more history on this gun.
Gun has a Valquartzen trigger, sear, sear spring and speed hammer, also the extracter and trigger shield.
I have polished the bolt and ramp with dremil tool. All seems to work together well and I have tried many types of ammo.
I did find two of my 5 mags to work consistantly. Now what can I do to correct the other three ruger mags that do not work? I have cleaned with carb cleaner and lightly oiled with gun oil...should a dry lube be used?...no lube?
Thanks again for your assistance. I will take a look at the flats on bolt again, double checking will not hurt.
I think you will find that if you replace the VQ Spring with the factory will help correct this problem. The VQ Spring is at a lower tension than Factory
Thanks! In response to your questions:
1. I have used many different 22lr ammo, CCI mini mags, federal lightning, thunderbolt, aguria pistol match, remington target. I do prefere the aguria(spelling) and remington target for accuracy.
2. I mainly experience the stovepipe. That is the empty is caught with the new round niether is where they belong and the bolt is open.
3. All mags are original type that are supplied with gun from Ruger...except one. The oddball is an after market I can not remember the name except that it begins with a M. It appears to be a carbon copy of original and oddly enough it is one of the two mags that work best. I do not know of a mag with adjustable fingers (I am interested in this however) My mags are all one piece stamped metal.
4. 4 mags are Ruger and 1 odd man out.
This gun recently had the Volquartzen accurizer kit installed (by myself) This problem was present before. I removed the Volquartzen main hammer spring. The Volq. hammer is still installed. I also nave an occasional misfire(If I refire round it will fire). Could this be because of lighter hammer? Also Volquartzen extracter and On target trigger shield are installed.
One other observation: In comparing thes gun (Mark II Target-slabside) to a friends Mark II the bolt pull is stiffer. Friends bolt is 10-11 lb pull and mine is 13-14 lb pull.
I have interchanged parts, Receivered barrel, bolt and frame with friends gun using my mags and have found no real change. I have polished bolt and feed ramp with dremel tool.
What is the best care for a mag? How should it be lubed?
I had a shooter tell me he had stove pipe trouble until he cut down the spring (one coil) on top of bolt..?
I feel that the pull if bolt may be significant, would gun function better with high vel. ammo to overcome this higher pull?
Sorry for this "book of problems" Your help is greatly appreciated.
Initially I suspected your recoil spring was too stiff for the ammo your were using from the discription of the symptoms. The extra info you wrote about your pistol tends to confirm my suspicions. I suspect that the recoil spring is too strong for the power of ammunition your shooting.
My diagnosis of the problem as you've describe it is lack of sufficient bolt speed is causing the stovepipes. A bolt traveling too slowly will not be able to expel the empty case with sufficient force and speed to clear the ejection port in enough time to avoid the bolt closing on it.
Now the reason those two mags work can be as simple as their feeder springs are weaker than the others and this causes less drag on the underside of the bolt as is cycles rearward during recoil.
I don't suspect that anything your experiencing is related to the aftermarket VQ parts you've installed. There is very little they do that is related to cycling of the bolt. The only thing that could have had an impact would be a higher tension hammer spring because the bolt would have to overcome that tension to push the hammer rearward and recock it. I don't see this from your description.
The reason I asked about your magazines is if the tensioning fingers (tabs) were too tight on the top round in the magazine then this would also slow down the bolt while its traveling forward in the extraction/insertion cycle.
The remedy to the problem more than likely is to remove a few coils from the recoil spring. One or two coils should do it but don't go any higher than three. The down side is you'll only be able to shoot the lower velocity ammo in your gun, not a problem if that's the kind you shoot anyway. You could also purchase another recoil spring assembly and leave it set for the high velocity ammo if you want to shoot that stuff later. Changing out a recoil spring is a very easy task with a Ruger Mark II.
I found a mistake I had made during reassembly of bolt after cleaning. The firing pin spring and firing pin spring support where in backwards, as a result the spring is slightly bent.
This could contribute to my occasional misfire but not the stove pipes. I have ordered a new firing pin spring and recoil spring/guide assembly. All about $10 via Brownells.
When I get new recoil spring I will try it to see if problem persists. If it does I will start clipping coils off of one and still have "factory" spring for high vel. loads.
I have tried high velocity rounds and do have better results, but still best with just the two mags.
It was the trigger shield!
I have 6 magazines, 5 ruger and one off brand.
With trigger shield installed all ruger mags created ftf and stove pipes. The best mag in bunch was the off brand which has a very strong spring.
I have tried everything, finnally went to a friends house and began swapping parts with his Mark II. This did not help one bit. The only thing different with the two guns was the shield. Removed it and have shot aprx 800 rounds with NO ftf or stove pipes with ruger mags.
My off brand mag will not work now! I do not care.
It is a shame that the trigger shield will not work in my gun. I really was pleased with the clean trigger mech.
I had the same problem with the trigger shield. I'm not sure if I had the thing installed incorrectly. With the trigger shield in, I had many FTF's (it looked like a weak firing pin strike) and every other round refused to load. After removing the trigger shield, the guns loaded and fired 100% (200 rnds) of the rounds that we're loaded.
I have not given up on the trigger shield yet. Everyone raves about the trigger shield and it seems like a great idea. I will try it one more time before it gets thrown into the garbage.
I was having a problem also until I removed my blast shield I have not had a single problen since. The shield was only 4mos. old but removing it cleared up the problem. I will order a new one to see if it was deformed from being taken in and out for cleaning. They certainly help with regards to keeping inside clean. Anyone else have this experience?
Wish I had seen yours earlier, would have saved me a lot of grief.
It appears that the shield projects rearward of the ramp on barrel and catches the round as it is probelled into the chamber. That is my take on it anyway.
I guess that there are two of us now with the same problem.
You are not alone. I too have experienced the same problem. There are past posts on this site regarding the problem. The sheild had a flat peice that sticks down into the mag well, and on my gun, made ever so slight contact with the front of the magazine. This ever so slightly changes the angle of the top of the mag where the shells are stripped off, causing the stovepipes. It has been a while since I tackled this problem, however there is a cure. I remember doing two things. I shortened the piece of the trigger shield that extends into the mag well by a 1/4" or so with some tin snips. This kept the trigger shield from making contact with the magazine. I also installed an exact edge extractor from Volquartsen. I made both of these changes at the same time when I took the gun apart, so I do not know which of the two fixed the problem, but I have not had a jam since with over 1000 rounds fired! The only problem that I ran into was that for some reason the trigger sheild was a bit difficult to reinstall with the shortened length. It can be done though, just don't trim anymore off the trigger sheild than is absolutely necessary to keep it from making contact with the magazine. It has to remain long enough so that it extends past the trigger opening. Good Luck!
I had similar problems with a MK II, and finally sent it back to Ruger. The 'stovepipes' I was getting were actually caught above the next round to be loaded rather than by the bolt itself. Ruger determined that the problem was the mag release...it was forcing the magazines too far into the pistol. Extracted shells were hitting the next round in the clip, knocking them free of the extractor, but not properly ejecting them. This affected as many as 14% of the rounds fired.
Forgive the intrusion, but I just ran across this forum.
I have been shooting my MK II in competitive Bullseye for 3 years now & still prefer it to my High Standards.
I also have had the stovepiping with the MKII, which is why I got the Hi Standards.
Part of the problem may lie with the Aquila stnd velocity. It shoots as well as anything but there are 11-3% light loads and the resulting alibi's were not acceptable to me.
The stovepiping is another problem I had. Here's my solution. First make sure the MK II is unloaded. Remove the action & bbl from the frame & turn upside down you look at the action/frame upside down with the muzzle pointed away from you. Then closely examine where the ejector rides in it's respective groove. If it's hugging the left side of it's goove (thereby placing it a little too far away from the rim of the cartridge for reliable ejection) put a SLIGHT bend in the ejector until it just touches the right side of the groove. This worked for me and brought back the reliability I needed.
What is a good holster for the KMK6 which has a 6" Barrel. Will the Triple K Pouch holder in the 5 1/2 inch length work, even though the KMK6 is a 6"? Thanks
MB.........what is important is that the trigger guard area nestles into place so that the pistol won't flop around on you.
You can:
Get the retaining strap of the 5 1/2 wet, streach it into the snap position and let dry, the barrel will be bottomed out and the trigger area may, or may not be a bit loose
why not get the 6 7/8 model...and drop in some styrofoam cut to fit to "fill" the bottom of the holster...that way the trigger area will be perfect.
I only suggest these because what I am pretty sure of....is that you will really like the Triple K rig.
and IMO cannot be beat.
I have one and it is excellent!!!!!!!!!
bang....pucching Aimhigh
Hello,
I just bought my first Ruger 22/45. Does anyone make night sights for this gun? Also, I saw a custon 22/45 at the range with a PAC-LITE upper made by a company called Tactical Solutions. Does anyone have any info on these uppers, good or bad?
Thanks,
Brian
I personally haven't had any experience with the products that you have questions about, but I know a great place with people that probably can help you out tons! It's our new forum site at:
Somebody could just answer your question here. If nobody answers here, I have to wonder about the quality of answers that the dozen guys could offer at the other site.
In any case, the red dot is a fine idea but I would recommend just using the open sights as is for a while. You will get used to the gun and gain familiarty of it. Upgrade later, cant beat that price.
Actually there about 65 members at the other site. Wel all moved over from this site because we were unhappy with the functionality of Network 54. Nobody comes here for the most part. The new site is still the Ruger Mark II & 22/45 Forum. This site is being allowed to die out. I am not talking about that Rimfire Addicts forum or whatever it is called.
I talked to the site administrator this evening and he said that he would post something to that effect at the top of the page with a link to the new address.
"Somebody could just answer your question here. If nobody answers here, I have to wonder about the quality of answers that the dozen guys could offer at the other site. Rich, Posted Apr 23, 2003 5:40 PM"
Let's see, this post was made yesterday evening and at last count when this post was penned, there were 65 registered members on the new Ruger Mark II & 22/45 Forum site. How could somebody be so wrong? And, with so much conviction? How about that for a quality of reply issue!
BTW, I have posted many replies on the new site, but you obviously wouldn't know that would you?
I get sick of rude posts refusing to answer a question asked, so I answer it. I also mention the low turnout at the new place and I get jumped on for being wrong on the count of members. Well excuse me but I have been to the new site since on or about April 15th (nine days ago for those keeping score). There was a dozen (maybe 2) people there and all that was talked about was the new postal league. I looked around tonight after your post and found a few stats, they are posted below but the one thing that stood out was how little meat was there and the rest was fluff (postal league).
66 registered posters
26 nave no posts at all.
only 11 have over 5 posts
Wow, stagering stats... how could I have been so wrong.
Hey, if you dont like what I have to say, fine, dont listen to me but I just think its rude to give a new person here the ole "go over here and post because I know but wont say it here". Welcome them in, answer the question, THEN let them know the site is in the middle of moving and to visit the new site. Besides, 2 of the airgun forums I go to run off the network54 system, everything is fine there, great format, no popups, no adult adds.
Anyway, have fun at whatever site you want, personally I like this one and I like the format but if the people over at the new site are just going to come back here to try to shuttle people to the new site, I will just stay at www.rimfirecentral.com. They have as much Ruger pistol info lately as this site has anyway.
You kind of left off one of the the most important statistics - 350 total posts, which began on April 7, 2003, I might add.
How many messages posted over here during that same time frame; approximately two dozen. Most of those were to inform folks about the new site location.
Your whining about getting jumped on garners little sympathy with me; after all, it was you who first jumped on Radar for promoting the new website! Not to mention, the little comment about quality of information posted here.
We are attempting to notify all those who've posted here and haven't visited in a while, that the forum is moving to a new provider, this means eventually here won't be a here too much longer.
I don't usually respond-in-kind but your posts had really gotten my goat - but good! You're more than welcome to join us at the new forum site. But, may I suggest, you leave those chips on you shoulders behind.
I didn’t mention the number of posts because it would have been irrelevant but seeing as how you brought it up, it is now relevant. How many of those 350 were actually about anything MKII related? Come on now, how many were about some pistol match or just hey buddy how you been and how many were actually about MKIIs? Ya I looked around before so I know but why don’t you tell everybody else.
I am sure a hell not "whining", I am merely answering what questions I can without the "I know but you have to go here or I wont talk to you" speech. Its called being polite, try it sometime, you can always send the traffic to the new site AFTER you give the precious information. It’s called the more flies with honey than with vinegar theory, hence my mention of the quality of people at the new site.
I’m not exactly sure why you are "responding in kind" because according to you I didn’t say anything to you, just Radar but I will say all I did was respond to the infamous Radar post by answering a question and suggesting that is the best thing to do. I wont even get into your definition of me "jumping" on Radar, I merely said "Somebody could just answer your question here".
In any event, I didn’t mean to get you goat or any other animal. I am going to keep coming here till as you claim it’s gone, I have been visiting since littlebubb dropped the link at Giz's 10/22 page (a long time ago). I appreciate the offer to come over to the new site but if it stays anything like it has been, I'll pass, like I said before there isn’t any meat and potatoes, all fluff, I can get more from RFC. Besides, I don’t think there is any room over there, you got a hell of a pile of chips on your shoulders son.
The reason for the posts that I have made lately...
by Radar
I am really not trying to cause an arguement And I am sorry if I seemed rude, but I would like to explain why I have made the posts that I have in the past few weeks.
I don't know the answers to everything. Obviously. I blew the answer to the recoil/blowback/gas question. People are popping up here and asking questions, but you seem to be the only one left here that knows any of the answers that visits regularly. And seeing as how your last post before two days ago was on April 6th, I had no way to know that you were even still here. I was just trying to tell the new people where everyone is. And I assure you no question has gone unanswered on the new site.
Looking back at the posts in the last week or so, I find three questions that I answered, in part, with a link to the new site. In two of them:
I answered their questions to the best of my ability, and then diretcted them to where thy could get more information.
As far as the cycling type question goes. I answered the question (I admit it, at least partially wrong) in the subject. Then I gave him the link to the new site. Yes. I admit that I should have said something more. I apologise.
When it comes to both sites continuing to be active, I don't think that that is what LB/J. Adams/Rook (whatever you want to call him) had in mind. And it didn't occur to me that anybody wanted to keep this site going. It might have if you had said something when we were talking about switching over.
That's it. That's what I was thinking.
You might try giving the new site another chance. It isn't the ghost town that you make it out to be. Just keep in mind that it is in the people seeking information's best information to have the largest, most knowledgable group available to answer questions, and it is my firm belief that that describes the new site better than it describes this site at present.
I invite you to came make the new site one person larger and wiser.
Well like I said before, I have been here since the link was put up at the Giz's old site, its been in my bookmarks since and will stay till Bullseye decides to destroy the archives here. That is the biggest reason I wanted this site to stay and I have even said as much. You mentioned that I didnt say anything before when there was talk of moving, that is simply not true. You even mentioned that if I had spoken up maybe things would have stayed here. I just want you to know I have tryed to make my thoughts known, emails up the wazoo (probally over a 100 over the past few years), mentioning it on the board and I even went so far as to offer to purchace this site and make it addvertizement free. All my corispondance has been ignored. That pretty much told me where I stand and if my help was wanted. Thats fine, if my help is not wanted I can live with it, just dont say I did not communicate my thoughts because I did that and more.
I appreciate the offer to come to the new site. Again I have to say no thanks. I am at www.rimfirecentral alot and even thought they dont have a specific MKII room (it was talked about and was not wanted, they just wanted to mention in the title of a post if it was about MKIIs) but they have a ton questions and answers over there. On top of that, they dont have anybody on his high horse thinking they are gods gift to Ruger pistols. Thanks for the offer all the same and of course I invite you to stop in to RFC, its a nice place.
Again, I will take over this site just to keep the archives, I wont make it add free if you have the new site but I will maintain it. I offered before and was ignored, I imagine it will happen again but at least I tried. Here is the link to back when the adds were discused and I offered to buy it, note the responce I got...
OK, I remember some of your posts about offering to pay for an add free space, I just didn't remember who had offered. When I was writing my last post on this subject, I looked back to see if I could find any posts from you on the subject of staying here, but I couldn't find anything after April 6th, I believe. But with the way the post shift around, I guess I just missed them.
I understand how you feel about these archives. They are a treasure trove.
Thanks for your invite to RFS, I might check it out. I probably won't hang out there much, because I am happy with this Forum, and I spend more time than I should browsing and posting here (or, there, I should say.)
Ya, the posts jump around a little and can quickly span 2 pages (and most people dont click to the second page). Its easy to loose posts or your place where you have been.
Ya, stop in at RFC, it is a great resourse also. It started as a 10/22 site (which inspired this site to be born) but of course has expanded over the years. Want to buy a Walther p22, go to RFC. Want to find when your Rem. was made, go to RFC. Ect. ect. ect. Pretty good site.
No hard feelings here, hope you are able to say the same. You know where to find me, I'll be here (till Bulseye flushes it).
No hard feelings here. I didn't realize any of the "old crowd" was still hanging around here and I was trying to point newbies to where they could get the help they were looking for.
I don't think it is up to Bullseye to flush the site, but J. Adams. But I take your meaning in any case.
Again, I am happy with the forum that I currently belong to and am trying to keep myself from getting into any others. Too many posts to reply to and too little time. But if I get another make of rimfire gun, I will probably stop by.
This site will stay "as is" with people able to come here and collect information if they want to. If this site disappears, it will be due to the death of Network54 and their inability to continue providing services, but right now it seems fine.
As to the ad offer and so on, it's like asking someone to give you their child cause you can give it slightly better benfits, but on the other hand it's their child and they want to keep it that way. Same thing going on here.
Lastly, new forums take time to grow, especially cross-overs. Besides, most our post here were made by 'drifters' who found the site and made a random post to get questions over a long period (years). The new site is less than a month old and has made quite a leap imo. Nothing wrong with going to other forums as well. I've been to and visit RFC occasionally as well as some others.
Howdy,
These two questions have probably been beaten to death but here goes: Is there any appreciable difference in accuracy in a MKII as far as barrel length is concerned (other than a longer sight plane). Also, is there an accuracy difference between the blued and SS barrels? I'm trying to decide between a MKII 5" bull and the 6 7/8" Govt. or Competition. Thanks all. :D
........weight and balance will likely be a bigger factor..and the 5.5 has quite excellent balance. Sight radius will not matter if you are usind a Dot. I have both, and the 6 7/8 is nice for Iron sight use,, yet my 5.5 shoots just as tight,,, also if you are going add the Volq parts,,, the trigger pull that some say is better on the 678G, is getting replaced anyway. pick em up...hold em...maybe even hold the weight of the dot on top to see how they feel.....that is what matters!!! A MKII with Volq hammer and sear is a GREAT pistol
But if I get another make of rimfire gun, I will probably stop by.