If there is sufficient interest, we can use Mr. Dreyer's League as a guide and modify it to fit our needs.
I am willing to organize this League, but just so everyone understands, I have never shot in any sort of league or competition before. So if I am the organizer, I will definitely be learning as I go.
I am hoping to register a domain name for myself in the next few weeks. If I do, I could post rules, a roster, stnadings, etc... so everyone could see how we were doing.
Please reply to this message if this seems like something you would be interested in.
*Note*: At this point, I don't know that there will be any prizes available, but who knows? I will be fun in any case!
As long as there is a sufficient time period between matches to give participants some flexibility in busy schedules...sounds like fun. I'll bet my son would also like to try it, as we always argue about who shoots best, but seldom set a standard for actual measurement. Would put some structure to our shooting.
If you get good feedback, keep this thread up top so we can see what's going on!
I was hoping for one week intervals, but we could go two weeks. Or we could Go six weeks (or whatever) and only score the top four (or whatever) sessions so someone could miss a couple without hurting their standing.
Whatever, I am open. I am sure that once we get a roster together, we can collectively come up with a set of rules that everyone can agree on.
One thing to keep in mind. if the intervals get spread out to far, people may lose interest. I would suggest 7-10 days. that gives a person 2 weekends to shoot. If you do not have the opportunity- maybe when you do shoot, you shoot (2) qualifies in one day ?
Just so this doesn't get mondane, waiting for everyone to finish. But i'm open!!
I'd be one of the slow guys. I work weekends and different shifts so I have no plannable life. A trip to the range is something I have to plan 3 weeks in advance and couldn't do on a regular basis
I'll have to be one of the cheerleaders from the side.
Hey if you want to join, just shoot two or three advance qualifings! I think everone would go for that! its only for fun- besides what do you have to lose? besides your: pride - honor- contenment- others poking fun at you - loss of stored ammunition- (ahh, just kidding) you can be our handicap, well accomodate you situation! you dedicated employee you!!
I agree, once a week is the best. However it should be easy to let someone post 2 scores at once if they can't make it every week. Weekly keeps it more interesting. And someone like Randomluck could maybe post even 3 scores at a time? I know it starts to get more confusing, but not really. When I shoot my summer league whcih is a little less formal, we are allowed to shoot ahead if we want. That allows people to keep up to date that can't shoot every week in the summer. Just as an example, you have a graph that has maybe 12 weeks on it. The participants are allowed to log on and post there scores for a certain week whenever they want. But once your 12 weeks are filled up then you are done. Then everyone could take part.
How's that sound?
What if we had scores due every week, but allowed people to turn them in up to a week in advance? That way the people that can' shoot every week can shoot twice every other week.
Re: How about a signed scan of the target for submission?
by Radar
Think that might be a little overboard. Some may not have access to a scanner (or even a witness). Think that we would have to rely on the honor system. If someone wants to cheat, they could just shoot at a closer range, or shoot 10 targets and pick the best, so showing targets wouldn't proove anything.
And if anyone feels the need to cheet in a friendly, no stakes competition, they have problems.
Howerve, if we wanted to post our targets, I could probably oblige, but I don't think we should make it mandatory.
Hey, if it is for fun and showing how we shoot compared to others on this site, the honor system is fine for me. Was just thinking how nice seeing a 10x by a great shooter might look (it will not be my target, for sure). Let's get it on, with the onset of spring!
I think that "competitive range reports" like this is one of the things lacking in the Forum to us keep repeating the same old stuff about sights, parts and etc., that have been covered a hundred times in the year that I have been reading these posts.
lets get it going 2-interest in shooting game=read
by j-mac
How about starting the week of the 14th? this will give everone a week to have an orgasm-whoops what i mean is for everyone to get organised? (what was i thinking) That will give everyone next weekend the 11th throught the 19th to shoot?
look under http://mytargets.com/ and everyone can pick the same target that we can all agree on. (its free)print one copy off and take it somewhere and get copies!!
I prefer either the bullseye 1" or 2" with 1" line spacing! whatever you guys think.
If someone else has another option-lay it out, and the majority wins? sound fair?
let me know.
I think the week of the 14th is a little soon for me. In my initial post, I said I wanted to start "in about a month." I was thinking about the first week of May. This way I can get the website up, we have time to recruit a few more players and to decide on the rules.
I don't have time now, but this evening I will start another thread where we can get into details like targets, shooting distances, how long between shoots, etc...
Just throwing in my 2 cents for Radar to think about. I would recommend the 50' regulation slow, timed, rapid fire targets. With a possible 300 points score. Which would be one match. This is the traditional indoor 22 league bullseye scoring format. But,since some people shoot indoor and some outdoor's, you could even allow each individual to use either 50', or 25-50 yrd scores. If you shoot only 50'- then post your 50 ft scores. If you shoot only 25- then post those scores. If you shoot a combination of both- post the combo of both.Doesn't really matter since it is for fun. There could even be a column added so shooters could indicate the distance at which they post there scores, just for reference.
being your in aleague,i think you will probobly have alot of ideas. i would prefer to organizethis event in the same respects! That will make all of us better shooters and help us who are not in an offical league to understand or even join one in the future.
keep the ideas coming!
I made up some 50' targets with MS Word. I could also convert them to .pdf files readable with acrobat reader. (The Timed/Rapid fire will probably have a little bit of the outer ring cut off depending on the printer you used, but it shouldn't be too bad.) I could post them on the web site (when it is ready) or I could send by e-mail. I don't know about you guys, but I have trouble finding bullseye targets locally.
I wanted to shoot at 50 and 25 yards, but thought some might have problems with that, so I figured we could use the 50' targets, but shooters choice sounds good also.
I'm interested, but I would also like more details on how it might work. I did read the link, but.. What would the distance be, one-handed??(someone made a comment about that. Would a witness be required(might be hard, I sometimes shoot when I'm the only one there besides counter person). Two weeks (or 10 days - two weekends) would work better for me because of unpredictability of life.
I am going to start a new thread this evening where we can discuss the details. Check back later and throw in your two cents. I am sure we can work it out to everyone's satisfaction.
Well I would say no witness needed, as mentioned before it dosen't really matter anyway, someone can cheat either way. As far as shooting alone, I would be able to use my scores I shoot every week in the league anyway. But for those who do not, and may shoot alone. You could go the http://www.bullseyepistol.com/ and download the range commands, and record them on a cd, cassette, micro cessette etc... and play them back so you can do it without a range officer calling the line. Or you could even just use a "egg timer" for timed and rapid fire. not the best way, but again this is for fun right? And it will work, and doesnt cost hardly any money.
summers coming. for those who don't like to wear the headphone style muffs, try the cushion expandable plugs. They work very well, lightweight resonably cheap (multipak) and disposable. beats lugging around the extra baggage.
Wear both soft ear plugs (foamies) and ear muffs. Your cranial bones transmit enough sound into your ear to damage the audio nerve. That's where the ear muff comes in, it protects the ear by covering the bones closest to the ear, and keeps the sound transfer to the audio nerve down to a minimum. I have worn double protection for all my shooting career, and hundreds of thousands of rounds and twenty-five years later, my audiograms still read within a few db as they did when I was much younger.
This goes for highpower rifle and pistol shooting. Don't scrimp on your hearing protection because by the time you notice the difference its way too late! Your not invincible you only think your are and so did I. However, I don't say, "Huh" all the time like many of my peers.
Your explanation of the benefits of earmuffs is great. I wear Leightning's 31 db muffs and they seem to work just fine alone, should I be wearing plugs too? Is there a way to tell when you've reached optimal hearing protection or do you just double up with a "better safe than sorry" philosophy?
Earmuffs proved a great deal of protection for hearing. But they can only provide so much attenuation of hazardous sound. The 31db protection level the manufacturer claims about their product is under optimal testing conditions. I don't dispute their claim but I know that "optimal" is not frequently found in all circumstances. The fit and function of any protective equipment product varies on an individual basis, we are simply not all built to the same specifications. Your's and my physical make-up are different, where the ear muff pads (a critical component of ear muff construction) may not provide the same seal against the skin between you or I and prohibit harmful sounds from entering the sound attenuation chambers of the ear muffs themselves.
Shooting produces very brief sharp spikes in sound levels and these spikes can go incredibly high on the decibel scale. The combination of ear plugs and ear muffs provides the greatest levels of protection against these sound spikes by blocking any direct paths to the ear's sound detection components. There have been several studies conducted by the military on hazardous sound abatement and all recommend the uses of double hearing protection in high noise environments.
The second part of your question talks about self determination if and when a safe level of hearing protection has been achieved. To that question, I respond with the numerous studies about hazardous sound attenuation and my own personal testimonial concerning the effectiveness of wearing double protection. My hearing has been religiously tested by the military and my exposure levels has gone way beyond what would be considered normal both in shooting and in other extremely high noise environments. However I know I would not have the same level of hearing today if I had not worn the double protections that I did for all those years. Many of my comrades who chose not to double up, lost significantly more hearing than I, with similar exposures to these high sound levels.
"Better safe than sorry," may describe this condition but there's ample proof, in my mind, that this is not just a catch phrase but a certainty given the amounts of clinical information available in this area today.
But, I do have some generalized knowledge about accoustics. Military testing is conducted pretty much all the same, the services just share the information and results.
My hearing was damaged by a single shooting session with an Encore 25-06 15 inch barrel handgun. Took about 40 rounds, my ears rang for 2 weeks and have never been the same since.
My sons don't believe that you need hearing protection to hunt (I remember being young and knowing everything)...so they will be getting walker's quad muff's for birthdays. Maybe they will use them if they amplify the sounds to make their hearing better. I use them to get my hearing back.
2/3 hearing loss here. I was young and dumb....real dumb. I used to use cottonballs. It was "cool" for that clogged feeling and the ringing for days afterwords, You knew you'd been shooting.
I sure was stupid. Now I use muffs and religiously protect what little I have left.
I usually don't wear hearing protection, mainly cause most of my shooting involves rimfires and subsonice target loads from them. On the other hand, large rifles and handguns get it all the time. Shot one cartridge from a 4" S&W 629, shooting was halted till I could get some earmuffs. Still, that one shot had my ears ringing for an hour or two. Don't want to chance anything that bad again.
On second thought, i would have to agree. Hearing is something you just "can't" replace !! better not to risk it , i have many thousands of rounds ahead of me!
Thanks to everyone that responded.
This is a .22, dammit! When I first started shooting .22s at a basement range - along with nine other kids at a time - each weekend in the early 70s, the rangemaster was the only guy wearing any kind of muffs or plugs.
If you're shooting outdoors, shooting a .22 should be damn quiet. (Do you wear earmuffs when hammering nails or using a circular saw?)
I work around jet engines, so like Bullseye, I am concerned for my future hearing so I always wear muffs at work and while shooting.
When I was shooting my MK II yesterday with Federal Bulk Packed Ammo, I thought the shots sounded like quiet, hollow thumps. So I took off my muffs and fired one shot. While it wasn't ear ringingly loud, I believe it was loud enough to effect my hearing over time.
While I don't personally believe that .22 ammo is loud enough to require doubling up, I know that Bullseye shoots .45 for sure, and who knows what else. And with the louder guns I wouldn't be surprised if doubling up your hearing protection would be beneficial. And if you wear double when you shoot one type of ammo, it wouldn't be a bad practice to get into the same habbit with all types of ammo.
And if I thought Bullseye, or anyone else for that matter, was "overprotecting" his hearing, I certainly wouldn't try to talk him out of it. You certainly can't argue with his results. With his decades of hearing loss free life, maybe he is on to something?
Not only do I wear the proper protection when I use my power tools, but I also wear muffs and safety glasses even when I cut the grass.
I don't take my safety lightly! I've seen too many who did and paid the consequences for it. Anyone under my command who didn't do the same found out quickly what my policy was and had better wisley adopt it.
I may have missed the "military experience" in my time, but I've been an industrial chemist for over 35 years. You don't work in this industry if you don't follow the safety rules. Yes, I tend to "suit up" for jobs like you do. In fact, I have a problem picturing folks owning firearms and not being very safety conscious. This could be a big problem.
I'll pass along one of my favorite safety observations. I observed a former neighbor's wife cutting the lawn one day, barefoot, in the rain, using an electric lawn mower with an extension cord! Sort of makes you wonder.
Shoot safe.
Frank
P.S. Thanks again for sharing your tips and experience with us.
Many of the Older Men at the Range Wear HEARIG AIDS
by Greg
There are a great many older (70+) who are active members at one of the ranges to which I belong. Many are WWII or Korea vets. And many wear one or two hearing aids. The percentage of them wearing hearing aids is far above the general population of their age cohort. While I have never asked any of them if being around shooting without hearing protection may have contributed to their hearing loss, I would bet a million the answer, in silent retrospection, would be "yes". Never shoot without "eyes and ears".
Yes Matt, if I'm going to be using my circular saw for more than just a short cut or two, I will use foam plugs. I will always use them when I use my router. I also wear them while reloading in the event a primer goes off. I too have had a career (30 years) where I've spent time around industrial equipment and have always used as much ear protection as I could reasonably wear. I've walked through parts of industrial plants with my hands covering my ears even though I was wearing foam plugs if I felt pressure there. I used to have to have my hearing checked yearly and the audiologist would always say........."geez, I bet your kids don't get away with anything without you hearing it." I believe the small effort to add additional protection was well worth it.
No matter what or where I'm shooting, I use foam plugs and the 31 NRR muffs. I figure that in the real world situation, I probably end up with an actual NRR in the mid to upper 20's.
And, don't forget, while it may be only a .22 you are shooting, what about the guy next to you?
My father's father was a printer - for decades. If that very-noisy job damaged his hearing, it didn't damage it enough to keep him from having normal conversations when he died in his 70s - and he never had a hearing aid.
Also think about this. If you ever have to defend yourself at home - probably with something a lot noisier than a .22 and probably in your small bedroom - do you want to jump out of your skin because it's the first time you ever fired a gun before without both plugs and muffs?
Well if I need to use my pistol in a defensive mode at home, I'm not going to worry about the noise. I'll live with the tinnitus after that if I'm still alive. But, if you don't use ear protection while practicing, you won't have to worry about the situation anyway. You probably won't hear the intruder breaking in.
If your grandfather were working today, he might find things a bit different. OSHA regs:
-Monitoring of the noise environment. If the TWA (Time Weighted Average) noise level is exceeding 85 dB(A), a hearing conservation program is required.
-Selecting hearing protection devices appropriate for the environment or environments at hand. Several different types of hearing protectors are required to be offered to the employees, in order to introduce a level of personal choice. The employer is responsible to pay for the original equipment as well as replacements. The employees are required to use the hearing protection, and the employer is responsible for the enforcement.
-Training and educating employees in the proper use of hearing protection, the importance of full time use of hearing protectors when working in a noisy environment. Education and training is considered an essential and ongoing activity.
Establishing a baseline audiogram for each noise exposed employee, and annual hearing tests thereafter in order to monitor the hearing health of the employees. Have the audiograms evaluated by an audiologist or physician.
Well, I have to agree with the safety-nuts on this one.
A 22 lr generates more than enough noise to damage your hearing, which could begin at 80 db, i think. Also, as a medic, I rely heavily on my hearing for things like taking blood pressures, lung sounds, bowel sounds, etc. I wasn't exactly gifted with good hearing to begin with due to birth defects. All I have to say is that you don't appreciate what you have until after you've lost it. Just something to think about.
...just as I feel your ultra-right attitudes are, after viewing your bile-spewing publication. I frankly wish you would not comment on this Forum. It makes the rest of us look bad. J. Adams, can you ban?
But wont. Nobody has ran this board ever since it started with the exception of a week when J Adams found it again. He ownes it but wont even get rid of the advertisments we have to put up with, what makes you think he bother doing anything else for it?
I offered a little while ago to take over for J Adams but he ignored my responce. I want to get rid of the adds and popups. My offer still stands if he is interested.
Whatever OSHA says about noisy work, reality is way different on noisy job sites. Try remembering the last time you saw a tree-service crew using chain saws while wearing earmuffs! The reality is that workers are doing the equivalent of "voting with their feet" on OSHA's more-absurd regulations - and nobody in any agency is doing anything, because such civil disobedience is so near-universal.
As for my ultraright politics, when your elderly middle-class mother also became the innocent victim of one of the IRS's famous snafus, you also will become an ultrarightist.
You said in lower case and I respond in upper case...
Whatever OSHA says about noisy work, reality is way different on noisy job sites. Try remembering the last time you saw a tree-service crew using chain saws while wearing earmuffs!
I SAW THIS THE LAST TWO TIMES THE CREWS FROM THE ELECTRIC CO. CAME BY TO TRIM FROM THE WIRES. THEY ALSO WORE HARD HATS TO KEEP THEIR BRAINS FROM BEING SCRAMBLED FROM FALLING BRANCHES. THEY EVEN HAD A 2-WAY COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEM THAT DID NOT REQUIRE A STRING AND TWO CANS LIKE THE ONE I THINK YOU MUST USE.
NOW IF I WANT TO HIRE A TOOTHLESS MORON TO TAKE DOWN A TREE IN MY YARD, HE BETTER HAVE INSURANCE AND THAT WOULD REQUIRE THE SAME SAFETY PRECAUTIONS AS EYES AND EARS FOR A GUN.
The reality is that workers are doing the equivalent of "voting with their feet" on OSHA's more-absurd regulations - and nobody in any agency is doing anything, because such civil disobedience is so near-universal.
WHAT PLANET ARE YOUR FROM? THIS IS NOT REALITY EXCEPT IN YOUR MIND! ANY SANE PERSON DOES NOT WISH TO LOSE THEIR HEARING BY DOING SUCH A DUMB THING AS NOT WEARING HEARING PROTECTION. DO YOU WEAR A CONDOM WHEN GOING TO THE LOCAL WHOREHOUSE IN PODUNK, USA, OR WHATEVER SMALL-MINDED (AND LIKELY SMALL-DICKED) TOWN YOU HAIL FROM?
As for my ultraright politics, when your elderly middle-class mother also became the innocent victim of one of the IRS's famous snafus, you also will become an ultrarightist.
THE PROPER FORM IS "BECOMES", FOR FUTURE TENSE. MY ELDERLY MOTHER IS NOT QUITE IN THIS POSITION YET. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE SOME ISSUES THAT ARE NOT ON TOPIC FOR THIS FORUM, AND I AM SORRY THAT YOU DO. I HOPE MOM GETS OUT OF IT OK WITH THE IRS, BUT POST THESE PROBLEMS SOMEWHERE ELSE.
BTW, I KNOW YOU HATE RUGER 22/45s FOR SOME STUPID, TOTALLY WRONG REASONS, SO WHY DO YOU EVEN COME HERE?
TO SIMPLY SPEW MORE OF YOUR ULTRA-RIGHTIST BILE AND VENOM AGAINST THE BEST PISTOLS EVER MADE?
I HAVE A COUPLE OF RUGERS, A SAVAGE SNIPER, AND AN AK WITH A KOBRA THAT KICKS AT 100 IN 2"MOA, SO I KNOW A LITTLE ABOUT THIS STUFF, SO BACK OFF AND STAY OFF THIS BOARD, PLEASE, UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING POSITIVE TO CONTRIBUTE FOR THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP.
What the power company does - and their crews all wear hard hats, though in truth I haven't seen earmuffs - has zilch to do with what most tree-trim outfits do on earmuffs, even the ones the power company subcontracts! I haven't seen any tree service using earmuffs - even the big-name ones.
You say I badmouth the 22/45? Someone else on this board just recently asked how to fix one of the problems I noted on it - the front sight shaking loose. The truth is that Ruger makes both great guns (MkII and revolvers, 10/22) and mediocre ones (Mini-14 and 22/45); overall, however, its quality is far above S&W's.
remember though, your personal oppinion on the 22/45 most likely will not persude anyone on the forum! especially myself. I have both of these fine pistols and love them both.
each gun is marketed to different groups and styles of shooters. versatility it is what keeps this market growing and changing.
When workers ignore OSHA its the employers that pay. Literaly. They pay huge fines and do a ton of paperwork (which costs them money because they have to pay someone to do the paperwork). $50,000 fines are not somthing to laugh at and nothing to "vote with your feet" about. If you do you will be using those feet to go looking for a job, count on it.
It should not shock anybody that OSHA is short on budget money (which = people) just like every other goverment agency. They tend to act like the IRS, light enforcement to hope everybody volintarily complies. Its not a perfect system, I cant afford to pay through taxes for a perfect system, but its all we got.
Believe me though, employers are reacting to the pressure. Construction is so tight in the profit margins that one fine on a job can kill not only the job, but a company (as in sorry you are out of business). Most companys are trying to go to self insuring for workers comp due to the fact that for every one dollar that a injured worker collects, it cost the employer $3. One local company is doing work for cost (read no profit) and the only thing they make is the kick back from the workers comp. company. If sombody gets hurt, no profit. If sombody gets cought sawing w/o glasses, very little profit (and less on the next few jobs due to less kick back). Thats just the way the industry is going, like it or not, it is heading that way.
Personally I wish it wasnt going that way. It seems to really push a few companys to the top and bumps out the smaller ones. Without the smaller ones you lose the inovation in the trades, the inventions, the independent thinkers. The big companys just seem to be in a rut, "the way we have always done it" kind of attitude.
As for the tree service guys, I havent seen one WITHOUT!. Everybody around here they all have the muffs that clip in the hardhats. Sure I have seen them pull the muff off one ear to yell to someone else and so he can hear the responce but never a group just sawing without.
I've seen tree crews wearing their ears. The HUGE national tree crews matter of fact. Safety equipment is enforced at the company level, mostly via insurance rates. The reason OSHA is mostly ignored is simple....when is the last time you've been in an OSHA investigation? They don't have the manpower. You'll see them only if there's a fatality on the job site. Then lets see you weasel on safety.
OSHA dont just show up with a fatality, they show up due to worker complaint also (one of the biggest reasons they show up). Thats how I saw them last and when they showed up they didnt just leave in 20 minutes either. They stayed 2 hours the first day, about 4 hours the second time (next day), 20 or 30 minutes the third time (about 7 or 8 days after the first visit) and 3 hours on the last visit which was about 15 working days after the first visit.
They dont piss around, if there is a reason to visit a job they know the old game of "clean up quick, OSHA is here" then back to the same old crap in the afternoon. They will stay and show up again to make sure everything looks the same, they may be goverment workers but they aint stupid.
OSHA's crazy days from when Carter was president in the late 70s ended long ago here. Back then, teachers at my not-air-conditioned high school couldn't bring in fans from home - due to OSHA hassles about them not having grounded plugs; OSHA got a deserved bad image as a bunch of nuts at that time. Those days are over.
I live in an area (Burlington, North Carolina) with a lot of textile mills - noisy workplaces. I go into one of the local mills sometimes - and nobody there is wearing earmuffs. For that matter, nobody is wearing goggles. I often go past constuction sites - and eye protection beyond ordinary glasses is uncommon; earmuffs are (pun) unheard of. While workplace-safety people do descend on fatalities here, everything I see only corroborates the idea that earmuffs are very far down OSHA's priorities in this state.
I sure you are in a job that deals with OSHA on a daily bais...
by Rich
I doubt you deal with them much at all. I'll bet dimes to doughnuts you drive a desk all day and arent out in the "real world".
You can make all the compairisons you want to 1970 and fans or driving in your car looking at real working folks but untill you become one of those working folk, you are still just an outsider guessing about what goes on.
Now, go visit mommy or daddy at the mill and tell us what its really like. Till you get back, I got a business to run...
You couldn't comply with all federal laws if you wanted to!
by
Having practiced law - and still having a law license - I can assure you that you couldn't comply with all federal laws if you wanted to. The reason why is that there are so many that the statutes alone make up a full floor-to-ceiling bookcase! And that's not counting the federal regulations - about an inch-thick of which come out daily. The result is a situation in which even federal judges don't know what these laws all mean - as different federal appeals courts in different regions often interpret them different ways, effectively making different regions each have their own federal statutes (especially in tax matters, with the IRS actually ending up treating taxpayers in different regions differently due to this!).
The result, of course, is a necessary social contract of sorts in which Washington mostly leaves the people alone - and the people, especially in the heartland, don't just revolt.
Just because I'm not a mill worker doesn't mean that I don't go into textile mills. Nor does it mean that I don't see what goes on around construction sites near the courthouse.
Specifically, CFR 1926 is a book that is only an inch thick. The section on personal protection (which includes ear protection) is on about 20 pages with the majority being on respiration protection. The part that covers hearing protection is maybe a page (going from memory). OSHA regulations are updated every 3 months, you are flat out wrong that they come out daily. CFR 1910 is about twice as big as 1926 and again updated every 3 months, not daily.
All these books that you say take up a bookcase, only take up a little over one lineal foot of space on one level of my book shelf and that’s because I have a couple of 3-ring binders with other miscellaneous stuff that is work related.
Basically, you admitted you were a desk jockey and know nothing about construction, industry, or even tree trimming for that matter, which to everyone was painfully obvious. Anybody that is in the trenches so to speak knows that just because you can’t comply with everything, you don’t just skip the easy stuff like ear protection too. That kind of stupid move will get you shut down so fast it will make your head spin and you better be happy for it because if you are not stopped, 20 years down the road a past employee (or 20 of them) are going to show up wanting his slice of the pie for past injuries. Everything you worked for and earned... gone.
Of course, if you were a lawyer, you would know this stuff but I don’t think anybody here is buying that line, try again.
You talk about some ex-worker suing you 20 years from now and taking everything you had. If you had a lawyer when you were starting any business with a high risk of lawsuits (like construction), he'd have warned you - very insistently - to incorporate your outfit to avoid such risks!
Not one that plays one on the internet. Anything that the company ownes is up for grabs in a lawsuit. Construction is a lot like farming, live pretty poor till retirement then the ship comes in. Granted, I personaly know 2 brothers that make one million a year as base salary and more from the other sister company but there are only 3 companys that get this kind of cabbage in my state.
Any yes, 20 years later is not unheard of. One worker I am aware of is getting a HUGE settlement. Personally I would fold but the company is staying in it and paying off. Its a do or die situation though as the company is to the last workers comp company that will take them. If they dont keep free of fines and injuries, the comp company pulls out and he will not be allowed on and worksites, the bonding company would finish up the jobs for him. Belly up, done, gone, that fast... and no internet lawyer can save him.
"Settlements" are the kiss of death to companies - as the cigarette firms learned. After they thought their settlement with the states got them out of the mess, all it did was encourage the same mass-tort lawyers to shyster up other plaintiffs (cities, unions) with identical lawsuits - though, so far, all have been thrown out.
Anyone in any business that is full of cash and attracts lawsuits needs a very-different defense strategy - the one the gunmakers have successfully used. No settlements that just attract more virtually-identical dubious litigation by different litigants shystered up by the same lawyers - but instead taking every case to trial, and filing countersuits alleging frivolous litigation and/or contributory negligence, with third parties interpleaded wherever they are negligent. And file for lawyer fees to be awarded by the court if the plaintiff loses at trial. (That's how Beretta successfully defended an HCI lawsuit in California - winning a $400,000 judgment against parents of a kid who suicided with a Beretta; Beretta immediately announced that it would seek similar judgments against any city losing a lawsuit filed against it.)
Remember - settling may be cheaper than fighting in court on a case-by-case basis - but, strategically, it's long-term disaster!
Not an "Internet lawyer" - just North Carolina State Bar #13200.
You just keep going. You spew crap you know nothing about, somebody corrects you and just make somthing else up and keep going. Its a never ending circle, like a stoned energizer bunney that keeps going and going and going...
So tell me internet lawyer... or internet gunsmith... or internet political lobbyst... or internet political anyalist or whatever the hell you want to proclaim you are this hour, didnt I just tell you 2 days ago that dispite your incorrect claims, workers are NOT ignoring OSHA rules and in fact they are being strictly enforced my the employer? I even gave you a lesson in CFR size and update frequency, not a peep about that (cuz clearly you know nothing about it) but you regergitate what I said 40 hours ago. So what do you have to say now?
Sit tight everybody, I can hear the bong gurgling already...
If I jump out of my skin it will be OK, as my practice will require only one shot
by Anonymous
I may be jumping out of my skin due to the first unprotected report from my home defense instrument fired in self-defense, but due to the many rounds shot in practice with hearing protection, it won't matter. The intruder will also be out of his skin. I will only need the first shot. I will have verified my target and made the proper decision to shoot or not. And that one time big bang will not hurt my hearing, although it will have protected my life.
Yes, it's true that .22's aren't very loud, and just like Matt, I thought that I could get away without wearing hearing protection while shooting. One day after about 500 rounds between me and my shooting buddy, I went home with a noticable clogged and ringing feeling in my ears. I had experienced it before but it would usually go away in a few hours. This time was different! It got a little better as time passed, but the ringing never went away. It's been a long time since I've heard complete silence. At night when I go to bed and all is quiet, I still hear a ringing sound. It's affected my hunting ability as well. Now in the spring I find it hard to hear that gobbler thats a couple hundred yards away, thats why I usually hunt with a friend. I have to rely on their ears instead of my own. And in the fall the deer seem to sneak up on me ever so easily even on the dryest of days.
Bottom line, ALWAYS USE HEARING PROTECTION WHEN YOU'RE SHOOTING!! I learned my lesson the hard way and I regret it every day. Tinnitus isn't something that you want to have to live with. There is treatment, but there is no cure.
Shoot safely and protect your hearing at ALL COSTS!
If you wear double plugs and muffs the standard practice for figuring the reduction level is to add 5db. For example, you have muffs rated at 31 and plugs rated at 29 you add 5 db to the higher number and that is the approximate rating of wearing both. In this case it is about a reduction of 36db.
Even a .22 standard velocity can damage hearing. Shooting a pistol without protection is nutz. The thing about hearing loss is that you dont really notice it. In my trade we had an audiologist test the apprencices grouped in 1st year, 2nd year and 3rd year. He was shocked at level of hearing lose found between the groups and wondered if any of the guys were deaf after 20 years.
Everybody has a grandfather that smoked 3 packs a day and eats 3 eggs, half pound of bacon washed down with a glass of whole milk from the tank and still lived to 104 but the fact is he is one in a million. We are dealing with odds here and if you dont wear earplugs, odds are you are gonna lose hearing.
I noticed my loss at a very early age (23) early early one morning in a cheap motel in Clovis NM.
I was half awake trying to go back to sleep laying on my right side. There was a faucet leak in the bathroom going bloop bloop bloop, very loud and very aggravating. I rolled over on my left side and dead silence. After the first panicked WTF!!! it was kinda neat. I could mess with noise.
The audiologist I went to after a couple of stressful days later was amazed that someone at my age had noticed a hearing loss. At the time it was at 38% loss. Over the next 5 years it declined to a stable 64%. These days I'm not too sure I want to know anymore.
I can still hear in the human speech range Thank God. That is IF there's no real background noises and I'm watching as you speak and if your voice isn't to high or to deep....I also have to do a bit of semi-lip reading. But I cope. The neighbors all know when I'm home watching TV
On the positive side I'm a walking voice stress analyzer. I can detect the slightest pitch change in voices and notice facial and eye changes when someone's lying. All in all it's a curse.
To sum up it can all be boiled down to three simple words....
I learned to shoot in as a boy the early 70s, I remember the first time I went out, my ears were ringing for a week. Second time it was only a couple days: I was told that's because I was getting tougher and stronger.
Surprise surprise: I'm deaf in one ear and partially deaf in the other. The only advantage is being able to sleep on my left side while the kids are making noise. However, I can't understand most conversations in a noisy room unless I'm watching the speaker talk.
At least my kids are learning to shoot the right way.
To paraphrase a reloading principle, don't breathe around a gun unless you have your yes and ears on.
This topic and replies, will save the hearing of many-thanks!
by j-mac
Thanks to everyone who has responded. I am just now getting my son who is 6 to shoot with me. I have a similar small hearing problem as a few of you mentioned! I have always blamed on those teenage years of loud ozzy music!! maybe so,? but it will also remind me, my son and others that the "effects of being w/o hearing protection" can be one of those things that gets you over the long term!!
After all were all invinciable when were young? (yeh right?)
One of those -mother told you so things!!!
Thanks everyone
Loud music can easily do it as well. Teaching your son good practices of wearing protection will help him through out life. Don’t forget to teach him about safety glasses as well.
Even though i'm older and much wiser, i still have those same premenitions, (when everones gone) to put in my ozzy -bark at the moon cd!! Staying young at heart is essential to longivity. My 2cents worth
The audiologist who used to check my hearing used to say you can get an additonal NRR of 3 with foam plugs under muffs. He also said that the NRR testing is done in laboratories and assumes no leakage. Your shooting glasses and hair make the seal surface uneven and you don't get a perfect seal. His rule of thumb was subtract 3-6 of a rating. If there is a place where the muffs don't sit against your head or the seal is torn, the NRR loss is much more. So, with my 31's and foam plugs, I figure I get at least a 28 NRR.
I have learned many valuable lessons in life (usually the hard way). What i will say from moving from the very bottom of a somewhat large structured company to a couple of notches below the top.
Politics (for me) has done nothing! Many hours of debates, frustration and or arguements seem to always end the same way! By proving nothing more that your beliefs are your beliefs!
I think if the company i work for, could of seen forehand, that i wouldn't be so politically involved, i would most likely not have moved up as i have! I don't go drinking with the president, i don't go on paid golfing trips with the vise-president the company paid get-aways,the private and selective internal company parties and politics that go along with it. (for ass kissers it helps make their job feel secure)
for me, I go to work to work and do me best to make the stockholders happy.
when i go home, i leave work at work and enjoy my family and my hobbies. (just my 2$ worth)
Life is your destiny- you should choose!
People like you - not to mention the large percentage of Americans who don't vote - only helps the tiny-but-shrill antigun lobby. That's because we have what they don't: huge numbers of actual potential single-issue voters - and not just in core urban Blue Nation states the GOP is doomed to lose anyway.
So vote - and don't just vote. Heat up your local talk show - where it's not censored ("screened") and where you don't waste time preaching to the choir like on Rush - with the personal scandals of an antigun politician that people in your area will vote on. Preferably, do this just before the election - letting the sheeple know about his tax liens, messy divorce, DUIs, etc.
you (ass u me) to much. like i said, argueing your oppinion is a mater of choice. I'm not the loud vocal type- i like to keep my blood pressure under control !
You have to do more than vote! Have you "outed" the tax liens of a liberal congressional candidate when he was a guest on a local radio candidate forum?
Beyond voting, you need to keep up with what laws/bills are being passed nationally and in your state. Then, when it's time to do so, contact your state congressmen and tell them what you think.
Curious how many of you guys are nra members? today i recieved some mail for registration $25 a year!
The top headline was about how hilary clinton and few others are lobbing big time against us!!
can i get some imput from you guys ?
Thanks,
j-mac
I've been a member for about 4 years now. Many great benefits. You will read many articles about guns that the media will never let the public see! Most clubs require that you belong to the NRA, to join their club. I think it's the best thing you can do as a responsible gun owner. It really is not very much money at all. About the same as 2 bricks of cheap 22 ammo, anyone can afford that. I actually re-new every year at the local sportsman show, you get a free t-shirt for a new member or a renewel.
I've been a member for awhile - but won't renew. Why? Because - now that they have a GOP president and GOP House and GOP Senate to work with - all they've delivered for us is the Klinton status quo; they've run out of excuses. NRA hasn't effectively leaned on the GOP to repeal Klinton-era antigun laws - and it hasn't gotten federal protection from frivolous lawsuits against gunmakers yet, either.
Save your NRA dues - and join your state's affiliate of Gun Owners of America instead; it won't satisfy itself with preserving Klinton-era laws.
Numbers speak for themselves!!!!! But, In this case overwhelming numbers do not vote, therefore, do not speak. If you have ever uttered the words ...they won't take my gun, but you do not vote....you may be a hypocrite, or arrogant enough to say you will use it to keep it. be carefull what you ask for....
Not just gun rights.....but many others, are sitting atop a slippery slope nowadays....as sneeky administrations (not just this one) are masters at enacting, creating and envoking laws while an ignorant public watches the friggin Simpsons and Network news and drones themselves into complacency and further ignorance!!! Be Aware Of What Is Going On While They Have Your Focus Captured!! ....Behind The Curtain There Is Some Real Deception Going On!!!! And your Rights Are On The Line!!!! Look beyond the follie and be informed ( yes I know it takes work and time and a critical mind, but we all have a brain that belongs to us. Remember who it belongs to!!
The surest way to make sure Bush won't even think about signing any antigun bill isn't the NRA - but just heating up talk shows and Internet chitchat with the fact that individual gun owners just won't bother coming out to vote if he does! He - or his advisors, if he himself is too dumb - knows that only virtually-unanimous support by gun owners throughout Red Nation put him in, not the NRA "bureaucracy."
"only virtually-unanimous support by gun owners throughout Red Nation put him in, not the NRA "bureaucracy."
True, individuals voted, but don't fool yourself, many gun owners read the NRA publications and these publications help form their political views. Without the NRA, many less people would even know who to vote for. People are lazy, they don't want to do research. this was the first time many gunowners realized they better get off their ass and Vote! And they realized this because of the NRA! I have no doubts that Gore would be in the Whitehouse if it weren't for the NRA! Even gun owners who aren't members see the programs the NRA put on the airways during election time. Do you know they are trying to pass laws that effectively would not allow the NRA to broadcast 2 months before an election? Don't think that the NRA does not help you , as a gun owner, protect and hang on to your freedoms.
As far as getting more on talkshow's, in case you haven't noticed the media is owned and ran by Anti-gunners for the most part! When was the last time you saw a story on the news about Guns saving lives? Good ,luck relying on talk shows, or Tv. The only reason I get "heated up" is beacuse they won't let anyone that's not politcally correct, talk some sense!
politics + money = power. This is the way i see it in this corrupt world. I don't think it will get any better for gun owners, but it most likely will be more resrictive.
I have a hard time believing they "could take our guns away completly, but i can see them regulating the what, where and why approach!
here in iowa in the 90's i had a ccw. 2 years later, they revoked a majority of them with the brady bill! Now with the arise of terrorist and associated problems , they are issuing permits again!! so obviously each state controls local authority somewhat, it just seems hard to grasp that exercised right could be completly diminished!!
Cigarettes kill its a proven fact. similar circumstances, the way i see it!! Taxes and regulation are to come upon them (my oppinion)
Who do you think gun owners would have voted for WITHOUT any NRA?
by
If you think NRA's "bureaucracy" won the election for Bush, just ask yourself who gun owners - after eight years of the Klintons - would have voted for in 2000 without the NRA.
The NRA made no real impact on 2000's presidential election - and damn little on 2000 congressional elections. If it had a history of "outing" the messy divorces, tax liens, DUIs, etc. of antigun politicians, preferably just before elections - and spending just the equivalent of two staffers' salaries on private detectives digging up the dirt - I'd believe otherwise.
Matt, I think it was the religious right that elected Bush.
by Rich
My in-laws voted for Bush simply for the fact that he was strong on religion and abortion. They can hardly come into my house for Christmas because I own guns but they voted Bush. I would rather go to hell than set foot in their church again but my wife said the minister was pushing members to vote Bush also.
I am a union member and a few more than normal crossed over to vote for Bush but not a lot. From what I saw it was 40% Bush, 40% what ever his name was and 20% didn’t state a preference (or at least to me).
Really when it comes down to it, just about every group in America could claim that their group was the deciding factor if you remove that groups votes from the results but I look at the big picture. Personally, I think Bush will take reelection if the war stays good and Cheney don’t croak but did anybody else notice that Bush keeps making more mentions of God in the news? I did, I think it’s planed, he needs a few more of the religious right.
sorry if I piss anyone off, but ya gotta watch out for the crap that is getting snuck by joe public!!
President Bush has announced his plan to select
Dr. W. David Hager to head up the Food and Drug
Administration's (FDA) Reproductive Health Drugs
Advisory Committee. The committee has not met for
more than two years, during which time its charter
has lapsed. As a result, the Bush Administration
is tasked with filling all eleven positions with
new members. This position does not require
Congressional approval.
The FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory
Committee makes crucial decisions on matters
relating to drugs used in the practice of
obstetrics, gynecology and related specialties,
including hormone therapy, contraception,
treatment for infertility, and medical
alternatives to surgical procedures for
sterilization and pregnancy termination.
Dr. Hager's views of reproductive health care are
far outside the mainstream and would represent a
setback for reproductive technology.
Dr. Hager is a practicing OB/GYN who describes
himself as "pro-life" and refuses to prescribe
contraceptives to unmarried women. Hager is the
author of "As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring
Women Then and Now." The book blends biblical
accounts of Christ healing women with case studies
from Hager's practice. In the book Dr. Hager wrote
with his wife, entitled "Stress and the Woman's
Body," he suggests that women suffer from
premenstrual syndrome should seek help from
reading the bible and praying. As an editor and
contributing author of "The Reproduction
Revolution: A Christian Appraisal of Sexuality,
Reproductive Technologies and the Family," Dr.
Hager appears to have endorsed the medically
inaccurate assertion that the common birth control
pill is an abortifacient.
Hagar's mission is religiously motivated. He has
an ardent interest in revoking approval for
mifepristone (formerly known as RU-486) as a safe
and early form of medical abortion. Hagar recently
assisted the Christian Medical Association in a
"citizen's petition" which calls upon the FDA to
revoke its approval of mifepristone in the name of
women's health. Hager's desire to overturn
mifepristone's approval on religious grounds
rather than scientific merit would halt the
development of mifepristone as a treatment for
numerous medical conditions disproportionately
affecting women, including breast cancer, uterine
cancer, uterine fibroid tumors, psychotic
depression, bipolar depression and Cushing's syndrome.
Women rely on the FDA to ensure their access to
safe and effective drugs for reproductive health
care including products that prevent pregnancy.
For some women, such as those with certain types
of diabetes and those undergoing treatment for
cancer pregnancy can be a life-threatening
condition. We are concerned that Dr. Hager's
strong religious beliefs may color his assessment
of technologies that are necessary to protect
women's lives or to preserve and promote women's
health.
Hager's track record of using religious beliefs to
guide his medical decision-making makes him a
dangerous and inappropriate candidate to serve as
chair of this committee. Critical drug public
policy and research must not be held hostage by
antiabortion politics. Members of this important
panel should be appointed on the basis of science
and medicine, rather than politics and religion.
I know..........this is a pistol forum I promise not to ever do anything like this again
American women deserve no less.
Religious right has nowhere near gun-owner influence
by
The religious right has nowhere near gun-owner influence - as gun owners abound almost everywhere in the U.S., while the religious right has virtually no strength outside core Red Nation.
Shooting clubs are popular in Cleveland's heavily Jewish suburb of Shaker Heights - but how strong are religious-right churches there?
My point was that any group can claim victory due to the close win and if you look around you will see that just about everybody does claim that victory.
Also to note is what the politions like what are called swing voters. They are the backbone of getting elected. Generally speaking you have the far left and right and they will vote that way no matter what but the centrists (or swing voters) are the ones that the politions want and desperately need. It doesn’t hurt to throw a few cross over voters in too.
I will say that the NRA does NOT have larger numbers than the religious right but when you factor in all the non NRA members that vote like with the people of the NRA, then yes the NRA is stronger. That means people who own guns but for reasons of their own wont join the NRA (like me). As a whole NRA is very powerful but they are not swing voters, at least not to the extreme amount that the religious types in the last presidential election.
But look at it this way, do you really thing the right would have voted for Bush without his religious leanings (at least the amount that went to tat side)? Many people call him an idiot (he really is the poorest public speaker I have ever saw) but I think he is a genius. He knew just how far to push the religious stuff, when to ease up, and now to drop the little "God bless's" in at the end of speeches. I think he is setting up for the next re election even now, gonna try convert a few more religious voters over to his side to give a more comfortable win.
Let me describe my in-laws: Anytime politics come up, the room quites down and you see a predominate hand gesture. To mimic it, extend your right hand, palm up, fingers out and thumb straight out at a 90 degree angle from the fingers. Then curl your thumb around and touch the tip of your index finger and rub it down to the tip of your pinky and back and forth. After several rub actions, return the hand to original position and take your left hand, point with the index finger and poke at the right hands palm. This is the universal democrat sign of "show me the money". All they want social programs and thank God for the Earned Income tax Credit because they don’t have to actually pay for the programs, because as the IRS has reported, 37% of Americans don’t pay takes. They don’t cause the problems they have, its someone else’s fault, they deserve the handouts. The only thing is they are religious (I guess because the lord provides, through my taxes at that). These are the people that switched to the other side and put GW in office, not by much but he is there.
You can think the NRA placed Bush in office if you want, you can even renew you membership if it makes you feel better, for that matter send them another $25 for me because they aren’t getting crap from me. The bottom line is with or without the NRA, about the same block of voters are going to vote Republican. It was the middle of the road folks that went Republican and the cross over that counted. Sure there were folks that crossed the other way and swing votes that went the other way (it was a close election) but not enough to count. That’s why I think Bush is doing a great job of pulling votes even now, very early for the re election.
You talk about "swing voters"; reality is that gun owners aren't "swing voters" - due to so disproportionately living in core Red Nation, in areas overlapping so disproportionately with where most of the Religious Right lives. Do you even think it's plausible that the average gun owner in 2000 would even have thought of voting Algore - but was saved from doing so only by the NRA "bureaucracy?"
It's one thing to - accurately - credit NRA members with being a cadre among gun owners that doomed Algore's candidacy; it's another thing entirely to believe that the NRA "bureaucracy" changed their voting patterns!
Seen in this way, the only thing the NRA could do in the presidential election is mobilize turnout - and it's hard to believe that, after eight years of Klintonism, gun owners wouldn't have come out to vote anyhow!
I said the religious right crossed (swing voters) over and NRA voted as expected, DUH. Reread my post, then reply. If the religious voters that NORMALLY vote democratic had, we would have what ever his name is.
I KNOW that typically religious voters come from the right but there are MANY democratic religious voters and they are what puched Bush in.
Really Matt, read the posts, the constant negativity and arguing just to read your own letters on the screen is stupid. If you want to discuss it I would be happy to but you aint even reading the posts...
The term "religious right" explains itself. In fact, the phrase was coined by liberals upset with these monolithically-socially-conservative voters - who hardly were "swing voters" who might vote for a Democratic liberal for president one year and a Reagan conservative the next election.
Note that - in coining this phrase, used always derogatorily by liberals - they didn't say "religious voters" or even "fundamentalist voters. Now you understand why - whenever they use the term - liberals say "religious right" in a derogatory way.
Finally, ever heard of the "religious left" in American political discussions - beyond tiny, irrelevant factions like the Berrigans?
At least in the mid-70s, the Shaker Heights recreation department ran an active club in a range in the basement of the town's high school. That range also served the high school's rifle team. The rangemaster was a drafting teacher at a nearby local junior high; his name was William Nye - and he was an excellent instructor for the kid division new to shooting.
These weekend clubs - both adult and kids - were so popular as to have waiting lists! The kid club was rifle-only with (usually) club-provided .22 bolt-actions; the adult club used pistols as well.
Yes, I lived there at the time - during the brief time I lived outside the South due to my father's career; yes, I was a member of the kid club - where I first graduated from air guns in the basement.
I really believe that some, if not being pushed, would just stayed at home. I'm am going to learn my lesson and drop off of this conversation though. I have much more to say, but the last time I got into debates about this stuff, I got so pissed I had to stay away from the forum for awhile. " So to each his own" and "God help us".
Anyone who considers shooting in competition will find that most clubs or registered shooting events require membership in the NRA, and (in the case of a club) usually the state affiliated organization where that club is located. Mostly this is for establishing shooter classification levels within the event, since the NRA already has one, most competitive shooting organizations use it.
I'm not going to get into the political aspect of the discussion. I've been a member for many, many years and while I haven't always agreed with some things the NRA does, I do agree more often than not. Besides, I can't recall any organization that I've agreed with 100%.
First year NRA member and first year shooter. Did it for the magazine (a good read) and to support the lobby effort they are very good at. I want my Second Amendment Rights protected, (as well as my other Constitutional Rights) and this is the organization that will do it.
I also replied under Bullseye's post as I think he is a great role model for shooting sports, based on his contributions to this forum and his willingness to help those who seek his knowledge, which has apparenty been learned and earned over many years. Thanks "Bull"!
just thought I'd throw this up here for everyone to check out. I've heard a few on the forum awile back doing this at home. I've wanted to try it but have never got around to
it. http://www.angelfire.com/sports/customjewelshop/mk2.html
I have been wondering for quite a while if jewling just makes it look cool, or does it have a functional benefit as well? Similar to polishing perhaps?
You know I'm still wondering. I think the original intentions probably were cosmetic, but from what I have read about it, it may be similer to polishing. Next one I see at the gunshow, I'll be sure to check it out. It does look good doesn't it?
The slide on my MKII is showing signs of wear, and I've been thinking of jeweling it. Just wondering how long it lasts. How many rounds before you see the wear and the job is destroyed?
Radar,
are you still lokking at at the bsa red dots? today , i put a 30mm red dot on a ruger mark II (of course taking the advise of our forum friends) and so far i am quite suprised!!
As you know i have the holosight on the 22/45, which is no less than perfect! but for the 35.00 for the bsa black shadow. i must say i'm impressed!! I see a liitle mirror refection of the dot on one side, but its not real significant! especially for the price!!
I would say it would be a shooting cunsumers best buy!!
I spend an hour honing it in before dark and had it shooting 2" groups at appx. 20 yds. hopefully tommarrow i can fine tune it!!
I was kinda of thinking about using those "day off excuses i posted" tomarrrow! We'll see!!
I looked at on of the Tasco RedDots (which probably come from the same factory, from the looks of them) at one my local gun shops today. It looks like it would do the job. I will probably check out the Sportsman's show tomorrow and see if there are any good deals.
Funny story: I am at that shop I mentioned earlier looking at the Tasco RedDot with the $40 price tag. The sales guy says, the Bushnells are going on sale for 20% off this afternoon. "They have a comperable product," he says as he hands me a Holosight with a $315 price tag. Ha. Ha.
I must admit after buying the cheaper bsa red dot today, that i may have jumped the gun, spending $250.00 on my hakko holosight. It does have some advantages, but i'm not sure its advantages are 6x the as much!
I would be very interested in your holosight on the 22/45. I too own a 22/45 but my corrected vision is asking for help in snaring more bullseyes. I am considering a red dot sight, but the combined price of mounting system and reddot has to be close to a holosight, no? Please tell more thanks
Robone, whether you get a $35 BSA, a $130 Ultradot or a $250 Holosight, you still need some way to mount it. With the BSA, and I believe the Holosight also, you need a weaver base without rings. For an Ultradot or similar you need a weaver base and rings. Either that or you need a SoLow mounting system.
I am not trying to talk you out of a Holosight, but what I am trying to say is that since you will have to purchase a monuting system no matter what sight you get, and I don't think that there is any mounting system out there that would cost the extra $100-200 that a Holosight would, a Holosight wouldn't be a "cost effective" venture.
Here is a quote from http://www.bullseyepistol.com under "Facts and Figures About Red Dot Sights" (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Dreyer_infonet/dotsight.htm): "And one last thought. Before you throw out your hard-earned cash on a high-dollar dot sight, consider the fact that if that brand was better than the UltraDot, ALL of the high master shooters would already have them on their pistols. But they don't."
Personally, I am probably going to get either a BSA or a Tasco. Because I don't have the budget for anything better, and I figure anything is better than nothing. And I don't have to buy a mount because I have the KMK678GC which came with a Weaver base.
thanks, well stated and will accept the input. Originally i was considering a bsquare full length rib mounting that utilizes the front and rear sight, but the solo mount appears clean and also cost effective. The bsquare mountkinda reminds myself of my victor high standard with ventalated rib, luv to shoot but the beauty of being an original in pristine condition is why i purchased the 22/45, thanks again.
Robone,weigand sells a no drill and tap weaver mount for your ruger for $ 40.00. They fit nice and look good too.
On the forum scroll through the pictures and you will see my gun with radars.! I have the weaver on two rugers one with the EXPENSIVE holosight and my other is a bsa black shadow (not pictured)and i am very happy with them!
Just food for thought
Someone awhile back mentioned their ruger loved minimags! well, Today at the range with my 40.00 bsa red dot i shot a 99% @ 20 yds using the 25yds bullseye targets using minimags. the first opportunity i have had to use them!!
probobly just a fluke, but i'm gonna soak it up anyway- chances are it may be aloooong time before i do it again.. Thought i would pass along my "30 seconds of fame"!!
Need advice! how to ask your boss for the day off to shoot?
by j-mac
Just wondering what you guys use for an excuse to go home early: calling in etc, so you can go shooting? i need some ideas!! Being comical is o.k. (good for the soul)!
Re: Need advice! how to ask your boss for the day off to shoot?
by Randomluck
Boss I have this gun here at home, it's speaking to me.... It's saying it wants to go for a ride this morning and shoot something.... It's screaming it to me now!! It's screaming it won't take NO for an answer....it's screaming so loudly I can't take it anymore.... I just can't resist what it's saying....
I think I need to go to the range ASAP, what do you think?
I think ananomous's pregnant it tops !!Belly laugh!! it just mat work!
lucky for me, my boss is an avid hunter! but of course for him, it's golf time!!
I own my own business and work outta my house. My wife comes from a family of avid golfers but alas no shooters except for the guy that is dating her Mom but that is a different story.
I can tell her im taking a half day to go golfing but if i tell her im gonna go shooting i better make sure all the Honey Do's are done.
I have a gun and I know how to use it. Let's do my annual review at the range!
by Greg
There's a bunch of things you can do to grab a few minutes of time off for shooting, including...
...Take some staff members who also like to shoot or what to learn and call it a "team-building exercise" that will lead to higher productivity.
...be lucky and have a boss that also shoots. Invite him/her to see your toys.
...have a sudden "vision problem" (You just can't see coming into work today).
...volunteer to <do anthing involved with kids> and must leave a bit early for practice/a game/etc.
...call him/or her out on his/her early leaving for tee-times, demand equal opportunity for "shoot times".
..."gotta drop my car off at the dealer before he closes" (and the dealer is near the range). Did this yesterday and worked like a charm!
...act dangerous. "I just got a new <AK 47 or anything else that sounds bad-ass> and just have to try it out before I go Postal."
..."I have a personal problem that I must attend to right now. I know you understand, the good boss that you are."
..."I am going to work from home today. Get me on the cell phone if you need me for anything (call a cease fire before answering the cell phone).
..."My dog died..I'll be in a bit late since I have to bury Fido before he stiffens up and my little girl sees him dead"
..."Sewer backed up! Can you help me clean up the mess so I can get into work faster?"
..."Did you know I like to shoot big guns? Would you like to learn how to? Hey, I got an idea...let's go out to the range and do my annual review between rounds of shooting big, dangerous ammunition. One or both of us can be holding a gun when you get to the annual raise and bonus part of the conversation. Sound fair to you?"
..."Like venison steaks? You do? Want some for free?"
..."I'm a Reservist and may get called up. If you want me to come back, I need some practice. You ARE a Patriot, aren't you?"
Lets say CCI blazers factory ballistics say 1255 fps at the muzzle and 1110 at 50 yards. Thats from the standard rifle test barrel.
What would that drop to from (say) a 6 " pistol barrel?
Can I expect a Rule of thumb loss of (I don't know) 10%? 50 fps?
If you go to http://www.cci-ammunition.com, Click on "Rimfire" at the top of the page and then "Reference Chart" at the top of the left column, it will take you to a page where you can select the type of ammo you want to see the stats of, including Muzzle Velocity with a 6" bbl. Select "Long" in the pulldown list to get a selection of LR types.
Unfortunately it doesn't list Blazers, but it does list 22 LR Silouette. The Silouette is also listed as 1255 fps, and the 6" bbl velocity is listed as 1060 fps. I would think that the blazers would be close to that. It looks like you can figure that the Velocity in a pistol is about 85% ov the velocity in a rifle.
Does anyone have comments on this issue?
i read and hear talk of people talk using jb paste and some new moly stuff?
i'm not sure i'm sold on these methods! does anyone want to comment about this or anything similar?
I'm interested in getting a 22/45, and have visted Ruger's web site.
They only list 2 models, a 4" bbl, and a 5 1/2" bull bbl. I have seen a "target" model at a gun show ("slab sided"), that appeared to have something more akin to a 6 7/8" bbl.
So, what barrel configurations are actually available, and if I see anything other than what's on Ruger's site, am I to assume it's an older model?
Hey,
I happen to own a 22/45 with a 6 7/8 barrel. They do exist and you can also find it listed on Ruger's website. My only complaint is that you can't get aftermarket grips for it like the Mark II. Maybe ruger could work on that in the future. Otherwise, a splendid gun to shoot. Well worth the $250.00 I paid from the shop. Iron sights are best on this thing, as I think a red-dot makes it a little top-heavy.
I have a "Great Eight" with a Kobra Red dot 22/45. This model has a slab side eight inch barrel. The only after market grips that I know of are the Hogue slip on grips. Trying to find a holster that fits this gun has be challenging, other than that I am very pleased with it.
tim
i would say its fair to assume on the ruger site that these are all the current models.
i have 22/45 with the 5.5 barrell and love it. If you like the grip feel, you just have to decide what feels best to you for barrell length.
There are a great number of red dot's - sizes, lengths-etc. it all depends on what you like, and how much you want to invest!! good luck!
Ruger lists all of their limited edition specials. Follow this link to see the pistol specials. The last two on the page are 22/45s The 8" bull and the 6 7/8" slabside:
Just installed the hi-viz sight on my 22/45 with 6 7/8
barrel and am itching to try it out this weekend. I think the red-dot scopes make it a tad too heavy for me. Like the gun overall, though. Can count the number of stovepipes on one hand, and some of those I think were because of a bad batch of ammo. If you do decide to invest, I recommend a Pachmayr grip sleeve. Just enough to give you a sure grip on the plastic handles. Am saving my pennies for the one ragged hole sight. If anyone has experience with this toy, let me know.
Just curious (if anyone knows why the more expensive ammo is more consistant and reliable?
my 22/45 enjoys wilcat ammo and is fairly consistant, but the eley standard pistol target for example, seems to be quite a big step above!
-p.s. i am still on a mission to shoot every brand of .22 that is available. It's kinda of fun to chart it, grade it for my guns "personal records"!!!
having fun-jmac
The more effort put into the ammo the better it is.
Of course, the more effort the more money it takes to manufactor.
Funny thing is me ex S&W 41 liked the cheap stuff. Wolf and PMC Zapper were the only accurate rounds thru it and I tried 30 different kinds of 22 ammo.
The Wolf would hold 1 1/16" at 50 yards and the Zapper was the only other ammo that stayed under 2".
In this group of ammo was a lot of mid range and high end stuff. Eley Tenex, Federal Ultra Match etc.
Should be testing the KMK512 shortly and already have 32 kinds of ammo for it.
Re: why is the more expensive ammo more consistant?
by Mike Corey
Greater attention, (quality control) is paid to bullet shape and weight, bullet crimp, powder charge weight, and primer around the rim. All of this adds up to consistency, and consistency is what makes .22 rimfire ammo accurate. Consistency makes all ammo accurate, but you're talking rimfire here I think. Match grade ammo is also test fired at specific intervals for accuracy. Promotional and bulk packed ammo may be test fired, but at greater intervals. All of the steps above take time and man power, which adds up to costs for the company. Costs that have to be passed on to the consumer.
More-accurate, maybe - but not necessarily more reliable on misfires. Cheapo Winchester Xpert never misfires - and feeds fine in 10/22s, if not in all MkIIs. Others here have reported that Winchester Power-Point, which is more-expensive than Xpert but far cheaper than target ammo, feeds just fine in their MkIIs. Some cheap brand-name ammo is notorious for misfires.
can you guys put a photo of your ruger on this site, for everyone to saliviate over?
i (and everyone else) would like to see some of these cool (custom) pistols we are all disscussing!!
p.s. can i send "someone" mine to post ? i cannot seem to get it to work! (operator of course)
just give me your e-mail.
Thanks,
First you have to post the pic to a web site somewhere. Then you type in the full URL (including the "http://") to the picture and the board will show the picture instead of the URL. I will attempt to link to a pic from the Ruger web site on the next line. If it doesn't work, please disregard this post .
I typed "http: //www.ruger.com/Firearms/images/Products/98L.gif" Note I added a space in this quoted URL, otherwise it would have just shown the pic again. When you post a pic, you need to leave the space out.
This is my favorite pistol before it got the Millett rear sight, and the Ruger mount bar attached to accept an occasional use of a Millett Redot
the grips are Hogue/with an old Pachmyr backstrap, both wrapped with Blue "AGRIP"
You can find AGRIP at brookstactical.com which is where this pic is posted..along with my SA 1911A in black. (Brooks dug the Ruger and asked me if I had any pics so I sent him some)
Ok enough..you guys have seen it before ..but I just had to show it to j-mac
I've got the same Hogue grips on my MKII (without the AGRIP, but I do like it) and I had a heck of a time getting the screw holes to line up. I put them on just like the instructions said (they specified one side go on first but I dont remember which it was now) but they still didnt want to line up. I had to fight and struggle with it to get it pulled around far enough to line the holes up. I ended up crossthreading one of the screws, luckily it didnt damage the threads in the frame of the gun, I noticed my mistake before I did too much damage. However, I did have to use a die to straighten out the threads on my grip screw. Anyway, getting to the point, is it unusual for these grips to fit this tight? And if this is normal, how the heck did you get them on after you wrapped the AGRIP around them?
Mine where tight also.. I cooked the finger section with a hair dryer and put them on and left them for a day or two. the Agrip is only 1/48th of an inch thick
Bh....The backstrap is a part of a Pachmayr grip that was once on one of my MK IIs . it is a separate piece of rubber that slips under the wrap around portion of their "full signature" series grip for the MKII. It is molded to cover the back of the gun, and held in place when the sides are tightened down. since I no longer used the Pachmayr grips, I trimmed and glued it to one side of the Hogue grips that I covered with the Agrip. The grip assy still comes off when I clean the pistol, When I put it back on..I just need to tuck the backstrap under the right side panel and tighten it.
The Pachmayr grips are OK but I like finger grooves for the Ruger. hmmm. here is a Pachmayr link http://www.pachmayr.com/pachmayr/index.htm
You will need to click on the Grip icon....them click on "full signature" to see a pic of the grip on a MKII
I just happened to have it laying around (I think I paid 26 buck for the grip set when I bought it)
what type of material is the grips made of ? unique!! the only way i would like it better is if the grips had red and white (to look like the flag)
Cool gun ! thanks for posting.
j-mac...Agrip is like a short napped swede, that is much tougher than it looks. It provides a grip like nothing I have ever held. As I have said before, the entire palm, fingers, and heel of ones hand make great contact even soaking wet!!, so much so...your gun feels lighter. Aimhigh
thats quite the rig!! all these awsome pics are giving me woody- uh,uh i mean its making me want to go out and shoot my gun !!
i kind of got distracted by this little hottie bobbing up and down in the top left corner of my screen !!
-i'm only human . or do i mean normal!
The first post is a small box with an "x" in it. The second post is a URL, but when I click on it, it just takes me to a login page for the site that you posted the image on.
This feature may not work with some of the free sites. I just tried with Geocities and all I got was one of those "x" boxes.
Byt the way. Press the preview button at the bottom to see what your post is going to look like. That way you can see if it is going to work before you post it.
would it be possible to send it to you to post?
i sent it to j-adams 3 times to post. not, sure if i'm just a "not quite grasping this picture computer entry thing.
Last night, i could access the picture through the forum, but tonight it did't seem to work -
thanks, let me know
j-mac
first of all i want to know what bh1122lge stands for? secondly, i thought the grips on your gun looked so comfortable, i ordered one, for my markII my father will hopefully be shooting.
Too bad theirs no commision check huh?
I still love those lett grips, but probobly for a later time!!
still wish i could feel before buying- oh well!!
LOL, well I actually posted the answer to your first question once to "Ruger Lady" who used to visit this forum a while back. Wonder what happened to her? Kinda boring, but apparently it really sparks peoples curiosity:) Bh=initials, 1=means absolutly nothing just needed a numeral to throw in there, 22lge= 22 league- referring of course to the 22 bullseye shooting league I belong to. A few years back I used to post by my name Brandon, but then another Brandon joined the forum, so I changed to avoid confusion.I am sure you will be happy with the grips, I have had mine for years. I can't find any I like better so far. One final note: I don't know if you read my post earlier, be VERY, VERY careful not to tighten the screws too much AT ALL! Finger tight, then just checl them every so often. If you tighten too much, after awhile the screws will pull through to the back, making the grips useless. Been there, dont that. That's the only thing I wish Volquartsen would improve upon with this design.
Mine is completely stock except for the Millett rear sight.
This is posted on Geocities, and sometimes when I press "Preview" it shows up and sometimes it doesn't work. Not sure what is going on. Will post it anyway, hopefully it works.
Would you believe that two shots went through the hole in the X ring?
Actually, when I finished my box of Feds, I noticed that there was one left over. When I got home and decided to take a quick pic to share and looked at the target a little closer, I figured out why I had one extra.
I only shot at two targets (killed a bunch of soda cans, though), and this one was a better group, so I used it.
Just copy that and paste it in your browser address bar or type it in manually. A lot of the posts seem to have all of the text a hyperlink to some add, if that is the case, you won't be able to highlight and copy it. (Or maybe it is just me?)
The grips are stock with the KmK678GC (the Government Competetition model). But I believe you can buy them from Ruger and also sometimes people sell them on e-bay after they put on Volquartsens or something.
My Ruger is completely stock except for the Millett sight.
Radar, nice target!! tell us what distance, what stance, or bench resting it??? If the unit is purely factory stock, do you plan to modify it?? Do you shoot competition in a league?? If not, maybe you should try it. Nice job!!! later chestnut
This target was shot at approximately 50', but I just stepped it out so I don't know for sure. I was shooting that day at the local plinking spot, a place where old appliances go to die. There was an old, shot up refrigerator turned on it's side that I was using as a bench. I was mostly plinking cans, but I wanted to check the sight adjustment, so I sat down in a folding chair, gripped the gun in both hands, and rested my hands on the top of the refrigerator.
I have shot my gun resting on a sandbag rest in the past, and gotten sub 1", 10 shot groups with both Federal Lightning and Remington Subsonic Ammos. Just to let you know just how accurate this gun (KMK678GC) can be, even with cheep ammo. I would like to see how it would do on a Ransom Rest!
I plan to add a a few parts, probably the Volquartsen Accurizing kit, or at least some of those components.
I am thinking of putting on a rubberized grip, and am leaning towards the Volquartsen Volthane Grip.
I will probably end up putting a Red Dot of some sort on it. I hesitate because it feels a little bit like cheating, but I figure that I will eventually talk myself out of that silliness (like as soon as I get the money for one, probably ).
I have never shot in any kind of league or competition, but was planning on asking if anyone on this forum would like to do have a "postal" shoot like I have seen posts about a year or two ago. But I don't want to do that until Spring has finally sprung here in Alaska. Another month or so and I will feel like going out and shooting every week again.
thanks radar! awsome looking!! tell your wife i said "thanks" . I'd cook her up some awsome t-bones on the grill, if you guys were a little closer "God's country" whoops- i mean Iowa.
P.s. you just had to throw in that nice target shot didn't you!- And you were probobly shooting that cheap ammo that my gun dislikes too, huh.
hey i have 20 more pic's can i - aw just kidding!! see ya
Federal Bulk Pack, and I can smell the T-bones from here!
I do plan on upgrading my gun eventually with the Volquartsen accurizing kit, or maybe just the sear and hammer. Am thinking of going with the Volthane grips. I have smallish hands so that would probably work well. Haven't decided if I want to put a red-dot on or not. Probably sometime in the future. For now, I have other things to spend money on.
The grips are stock with the KmK678GC (the Government Competetition model). You can buy them from Ruger, the parts booklet (http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/PDF/C2.pdf) Lists them for $42.50. Also, sometimes people sell them on e-bay after they put on Volquartsens or something.
i didn't mean to double post the grips question. i was getting the kiddies to bed (distractions, distractions)- right now all i want is be distracted by a day off or the weekend, so i can play.
bulleye,
just wanted you to know that i have been looking at custom grips for one of my marrk II's. The crazy thing is, that of all the grips on the internet i have found to like, are the same ones you posted!!(weird- esp or something?) I'am still at a deadlock on those lett target grips or volquartzen's!!
Only wish i could "feel" before buying!!
j-mac
My guns are more like tools than conversation peices. I have posted pics of some of them from time-to-time, when there's something useful to demonstrate.
I use them hard and they're not all that cosmetically aesthetic. In fact one of my hardball guns is downright "Butt-ugly", but it puts them all right in the middle and I've had it for years.
Well maybe somday, we can see them again. I'm with you on the funtionability.
I tell the guys at work who carry "dull" pocket knives, that they might as well be carrying a rock around in your pocket.
Over the course of years, i have owned several guns-some, i found weren't quite the bargin i thought. Those guns soon found a home elsewhere.
Asthetic looks isn't everything!
Just wanted to thanks to everyone for who sent there ruger photo's! It's nice to see everyone own personality so to speak!!
i appreiciate being a part of this forum- thank you, to all, who have contributed and help make this forum fun and interesting.
I am thinking of getting a Red Dot for my KMK678GC. The Ultra Dot and Holosights are out of my price range at the moment, so I will probably get a BSA, or possibly a Tasco (I plan on going to the Sportsman's show this weekend and seeing if they have anything there).
I would like to mount whatever dot I get on the weaver base that comes with my gun, and from the pictures, both of the sights I am looking at seem short enough to do so. But I just wanted to ask first to make sure that I won't need to exchange my base for the longer one.
Also, any help in deciding which of the cheeper Dots to choose would be appreciated. I am leaning towards the BSA for a couple of reasons. First, I like the silver finish. Second, I used to sell telescopes and binoculars. And in that arena, Tasco is very low in quality, comparatively. So I guess I am just prejudiced. But when I look at the pictures, the two sights look identical, except they have different finishes (I just noticed that while I was writing this).
I bought one of those BSA (RD-30) red dots on a lark one day and I was pleasantly surprised by it. It has quite a large dot and comes with integral sight mounts. These mounts are very short and should fit rather nicely on a short weaver base mount.
I'm not recommending BSA's but mine was very inexpensive and has held up OK. I did have to shim the heck out of one side of the scope, just to get the hits in the middle of the bullseye. I tried it out on several pistols and currently it is residing on one of my M-41's.
For thirty dollars it works, if it didn't, I'd just consider it a throw away.
If I understand what you are saying, the BSA is better than you thought it would be, and while not that great, it gets the job done.
One question, though. You said it has "quite a large dot." But the adds claim 5 MOA. I thought 5 was comparatively pretty small. Or is this a case of "creative advertising?" Or maybe they made the dot smaller with the more recent models?
My instructions also say 5 MOA but my scope is getting more like a 7-10 MOA spread. The dot almost completely covers the bullseye on a standard 25 yard NRA Bullseye target. The BSA has quite a difference in dot size compared to several of my other red dot scopes.
Perhaps they've made a smaller dot since I got mine but I'll bet someone really just estimated the size and put that down in the brochure.
I am curious about how people sight in their Red Dots, particularly for bullseye, but any comments are welcome. What I mean is, do you pick a distance and sight it in so you aim at the bottom of the bullseye like you do with iron sights? Or do you aim for the middle of the bull and adjust the elevation adjustment every time you change yardage? I have also heard that some people pick a large dot that just barely covers the entire bull at their favorite distance. Any takers for that method? Or something I haven't mentioned?
Radar, I have shot a red dot in Bullseye for 7 years now. The general rules of red Dots is you set it up for the center of the bull. I have never heard of anyone using it like iron sights, though I have seen the questions asked many times. As far as adjustments, the 22 does not require any change from 25 to 50 yards. Really it is not affected till it is beyond 50 yards. So no one makes adjustments. The 45 however is affected, mainly due to the slower speed and greater weight and size of the bullet. Going from 25-50 yards I adjust my scope about 2 clicks (vertical only). Coverage of the bull with different dot sizes is purely a personnal thing. Some people find it easier to cover the bull, it "appears" to the human eye that the dot is not moving around as much. Best way to have the best of both worlds is buy a Ultra Dot with the 4 different dot sizes. Many people are trying this method because they use a different dot size for 25 and 50 yards. I use a 4 minute dot all the time, though I am curious to try this myself.
what i have found to be the best for me, is to set up and sight in on the the center of the bullseye. I can only shoot appx.50 yds. or less. i do not see adramic drop due to bullet weight, but it the variables have to be taken in consideration: windage, bullet type-weight, moa tour using-etc.
I would like to hear more from the red dot pro's as well. (experience is knowledge)!!
I'm open!!
Sight the red dot to the distance you intend to shoot. Then learn where the POI is for shorter and longer distances from the zeroed distance...compensate for targets at diff distances
Anyone know which barrel blued version vs stainless will withstand more rounds of fire without losing its tolerence first? I read somewhere recently one of you have 70,000 rds. through your gun!! wow!
i suppose that care would have a significant impact on this.
Well, I'm no expert in this field but I do have personal experience. I would say blued steel ( as far as wear and tear). Stainless will "Gaul" and flake off because it is softer. For example, I have noticed a significant difference in 2 bolt faces of two different Rugers I have owned. One stainless, one blued. The stainless had rounded or "peeled" corners and sharp edges that came from the pounding the bolt takes moving back and forth. The blued one looked almost brand new. I actually had to get Ruger to replace my stainless bolt. The interesting fact was the stainless had only seen standard velocity ammo, where as the blued had seen strictly High velocity Blazers shot through it. Now don't get me wrong, both can last a lifetime. I make sure to keep plenty of oil on my stainless guns ( to prevent gaulling ). But then again I make sure to oil by blued guns ( to prevent rusting ). One final note, if you don't take good care of your guns " cleaning, or riding them and putting them away wet" stainless will take much more abuse, and look better longer.
everytime i shoot my walther -i appriciate rugers quality
by j-mac
i was out shooting and decided to run a few rounds through my p-22 to mix things up! Everytime i do this i ask myself, why, do i even shoot this gun! When i shoot this Gun i feel like i am the worst shot on earth!! I cannot hit anything consistantly.
I keep saying after shooting "i'm gonna sell it, but i never follow through!!
I just can't say enough about the quality difference of the ruger !!
(my oppinion)
I noticed in the pics that red dot sights are mounted in various postiions, with the back end forward of the butt end of the gun, right at the end and some with the sight beyond the end. I just mounted mine towards the back, but only cause I didn't know where it should go as I have never used one. How does one determine where to place the sight? Thanks.
There is no "correct" place to mount a red dot sight. The best place is where the feel and balance of the pistol is best for you.
Red dot sights have no eye relief requirements like a conventional cross-hair scope. This allows considerable latitude in where the sight gets mounted. Some people with longer barreled pistols mount them towards the back of the gun to counter balance the forward weight of the barrel.
So experiment a little and see where the scope feels best for you and stick with it.
Terry,
like bulleye said its basically your prefenece,of course depending on the mount you have. Set it where it feels comfortable for you and the way you extend to shoot. Find your comfort level and zone in. and leave it!! good luck & and have fun!
I just got back from the range for the first time since installing new Hogue grips and the ranch products Magazine Release extender.
After firing the last round of the magazine, the magazine would release partially and the bolt would not stay open in the back. It didn;t seem to effect the performance of the gun, but I know that that isn;t the proper way for the gun ot operate. Any ideas as to what could be causing this?
Sounds like your magazine catch spring is not installed all the way or perhaps it's in backwards. Is there a good amount of tension on the new magazine release? Because it sounds like it is slipping off the magazine when the gun recoils. This is classic for not enough spring tension. Give it a good double check. Here's a diagram that may help from Yzguy's website.
Gets the slower shooters to do their thing and gives the quicker ones something to do LOL
