I'm new to the vintage non-sport collecting world and was wondering how you guys decide which sets you are going to put together. I started by picking up a big lot of N cards recently that I just wanted to flip to help further my baseball collection, but I found I just couldn't part with the Fishers and Fish set...I'd like to put a new set together and those E27 Teddy's Trophies look like they may present a fun challenge. At this point I'm only putting sets together that look aesthetically pleasing to me. Just wondering how you guys pick your next conquest?

My approach was very simplistic:

Pick and era,
Selet a theme applicable to the era,
Identify sets which fit,
and make choices.

= WWII military related cards

Although the lure of the 19th century, and other periods is apparent.

Hi Dan--- a friend of mine once explained that his first hurdle was to figure out how much money he could spend without his wife finding out about it---this lent an aura of intrique and danger that spiced up the whole collecting experience. After that, he just collected whatever he wanted. My friend might also respectfully suggest some caution, o/w you might end up sleeping with those fishes in more ways than one. Good luck!

Ha, good one Don...I'm trying to convince my wife that non-sports would be a good hobby for her. She does think the fish and fishers set is "cute" so it might not take too much convincing. I'd definitely have to cut back on baseball and I'm not even sure I'm ready to do that.

Hey Dan, welcome to vintage non-sports, where card collecting is still fun! 

The water is fine here: the comraderie is great and card prices still reasonable . . .

You've raised a great question, as to selecting collecting targets. 

Many of us, I think, have fairly rigidly-defined personal selection parameters, otherwise one winds up frustrated and broke, trying to collect EVERYTHING and completing nothing. My self-defined 'universe' right now is 1930s gum-related issues through to the wartime era, but with crossover into some food issues.  This allows a rich enough target pool, but also cuts me off from that enormous (and daunting) world of tobacco cards, for instance.   (Maybe someday.)

Then, within that self-selected area, I select what I want to work on, at any time, based on combined evaluation of opportunity (are the cards out there), likelihood that a good set-starter lot can be obtained, attractiveness of the topic, etc.  

In my opinion, a great initial set target would be something like National Chicle SKYBIRDS, which, at 108 cards is very doable and with really only a modicum of tough cards (and frankly, they are available if you are willing to pony up).  HORRORS OF WAR is another great project and the cards are ALL out there.  I know collector friends who finish off HOW sets regularly and put them onto auction sites for income to funnel into other collecting areas.

Hi Dan---all joking aside, topical collecting can be a lot of fun, & if you can get along with mid grade cards, expense is not so bad either. Recently our UK colleagues have opened my eyes to sets from Europe--one fun challenge is to collect any fishing related cards from a wide variety of sets---there might be only couple of fish cards in a set dedicated to sports/industry/zoos/animals/wildlife etc. Half the fun I have with topics like this is finding the cards in the first place---the R26 Boy Scouts set has #19 The Yellow Perch & # 22 Sharks---must be many others to find. For all I know Dan C. may already have an entire webpage set up! Good hunting! (or fishing as the case may be)

Dan, you seem to have your eye on N, T, E, and R cards. That narrows it down a bit

My suggestion for the N cards is to get the book American Tobacco Cards by Forbes and Mitchell. After going through that, pick out about 20 sets to work on. You will find after awhile that some you don't like as much as others. Eventually you'll get to 5-8 sets you will concentrate on and just resell the cards from sets you pass on.

You can do the same with the R cards if you buy a Benjamin guide or Chris Watson's Non-Sports Bible. The E-cards don't have a lot written about them, but they are no longer cheap pickups.

There are about 50 sets similar to the Fishers and Fish set in that they are attainable and each have their own good attributes. But again, pick up American Tobacco Cards. You won't regret it. In fact if you don't like it, I'll buy it off you. Mine is so beat up I need a new one and another for the office. There's a new one on Amazon.com for $19.

Just remember, there are some truly epic sets that are unattainable to completion.

Here's a link to a great thread that has a few folks you'll recognize from the BB Board.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/thread/1167407170/last-1183916489/What+FIVE+sets+are+you+most+interested+in+today

Very simple.

Complete the sets you like.

I was completely unfocused in my collecting tastes.......NOW, I'm even MORE completely unfocused in them because of all the great 1930's stuff. Used to be primarily N stuff like A&G, Duke and Kinney stuff, now I've added the 1930's gum stuff into it and whatever else.......I think like Eric said start with a few different sets, buy lots if you can because the value is there obviously and then sell off the singles of the stuff you don't want. That way you don't get too deep into something and then decide to sell.

There are non-sports cards available for virtually any genre known to mankind.

Unless you have pre-conceived ideas of what to collect, try to acquire a price guide of some kind; not for the prices, but to see what is available. Many of the price guides have some illustrations, so you can see examples of the various sets.

Pick a set or sets in an area that you think you may enjoy, and do a search on Ebay to see more examples.

Once you decide on an area you can limit your collection to a given time era, or a type such as tobacco cards. You can always expand your interests.

and welcome!

Jon.

Hello to All ,

Hi Dan , A merry welcome to the non-sports field .

I'm sure you'll receive lots of good advice about non-sports collecting here ..it's a mine field out there and the guys/gals @ Net54 have a wealth of knowledge to help you along the rocky road .

Budget , availability , and why am i collecting this particular set are all important factors in my choice .
I'm new to US cards myself , so i wish you well in your quest .

=========

Are you planning your campaign by purchasing the set outright or buying single cards to make up sets ?

Mark

There are a couple of ways to go at this - pick a theme (aviation, Indians, etc.) and collect sets in that theme (and perhaps narrow down the range to make it more focused - e.g., all aviation card sets prior to 1960) or pick a category (N-cards, T-cards, 30's gum cards, etc.).

Best thing to do to start out is to get reference guides (I particularly recommend the Forbes & Mitchell book...).

The big caveat - if you are trying to build sets, make sure you know that it's possible to even find the cards in a particular set before you start out to build one. There are a lot of old sets that are common enough where you can put together a complete set with a bit of hunting (which is the fun of collecting!). Then there are others where you'll never stand a chance (anyone have more than a few T64 cards, let alone a complete T64 Generals set??). In some cases, there are short-printed cards that are much tougher to find than the average cards - leaving you with 44 out of 50 and no hope to get the last 6.

Unless you want to be completely frustrated in completing a set, it's better to know whether the goal is achievable.

There's so much stuff out there, particularly on eBay, that unless you have a focus & a plan you can go broke in a week buying miscellaneous items.

Thanks for the tips fellas...and I will be trying to complete one or two sets at a time by picking up lots and singles off ebay. No fun just purchasing a complete set. I can already see that the Teddy's Trophies is very difficult so I may put that one on the backburner and look for a set that's achievable within a years time frame.

Thanks again..and looking at some of the names in this thread I think I've sold a few cards to a couple of you guys on ebay.

Here's an obvious and overlooked idea, utilize the gallery tab on this forum. Hundreds of sets shown and an example of each card from the ACC index should yield instant "yes, this is the set for me". Dan the Man has maintained an exhaustive pace with more to come. All we had to do was look in our own backyard! Now go pick 'em.

quite a lot to see in our own backyard. In an effort to save ya'll from a 9500 word - tome like answer - I offer the following:
explore
discover
explore
focus
explore
re-focus
I prefer a strategic combination that incorperates aesthetics - availability - significance - cost. I used to collect it all - not possible. I tried sets - often too tough and too narrow with individual elements within the set not fitting my preferences referenced above. Type cards - was fun but too many are near impossible - hard to decide which subject most appropriately showcases the set - and some are ugly. I recently faced a "type" problem. I had 2 types left of the Duke Poor Boys set I had completed and sold - Buffalo Bill and J.L. Sullivan. I have 10-15 really nice Cody items but don't collect HIM per se. The Sullivan is the most important and expensive one in the set but although I did collect a smattering of rare 19th century boxing cards - I sold most when I couldn't afford to go after them all and wanted more latitude in my persuit. I decided to keep the Buffalo Bill and cut ties with JLS. The collector in me is still pining but I'm tough and I'll get over it. In the end and for the moment - I have been trying a combination of the set and type strategy driven primarily by SUBJECT MATTER. I think prudence and patience are key. You don't want to feel pigeonholed or encumbered by your stuff - or overwhelmed at it's breadth. I'm collecting 8/9 19th century sets and typing advertising cabinets - blacks - and indians as well as unusual baseball trade cards and types. One final thought is one of liquidity. If your pockets deep - ignore all of the above

Thinking back, one personal decision rule has been key in set selection for me, tho, down thru the years.  I think it has probably served me well, overall, by stopping me from heading me down blind alleys and wasting a lot of time and frustration on impossible sets.  Am sure, tho, that in some cases, this 'rule' may have kept me from tackling a tough set "early enough", at times, and those are regrettable.

And the rule is this: 

I won't start a new target set unless I can find a decent-sized "starter lot" to kick things off.  Meaning, no way I'd target a 108-card set, for instance, by buying card #1, then card #2, and so on . . .  First move has to be, say, a 30-card lot in one fell swoop, to get me going.  This has the benefits of providing both momentum and also usually a more economical cost base to build upon.  ( If I were able to regularly haunt card shows, antique malls, garage sales --  Todd!!! -- I might start sets with just that single, first card.  But I can't, so I don't! )

Of course, this rule has stopped me from tackling sets which never show up other than one-card-at-a-time.  For instance, I've simply been unable to make a move on the Leader Novelty Superman cards from candy boxes, for example, because of this bias.  But overall, I still think this rule was/is the way to go.

Other opinions  . . agree or is this just a little nutty, guys?

between eBay, auctions, and shows - there's a lot of time and money spent on shipping and/or related acquistion expences. When you add them all up one at a time - they would have paid for more cards - and are expenses that will never figure into "value". Card grading and framing are somewhat similar but at least they theorhetically enhance appreciation visually and/or monitarily. Like you, I wouldn't attack anything but a small set one card at a time as I am doing with the sepia indians and blacks. The "jump start" is similar to what happened to Dan - but now he's faced with the completion issue. Fortunately it's a very do-able set and he only needs/needed 2 cards. I'm not sure if like Dan I'd rather not buy a comlete set. The chase is fun with it's own rewards - but if I need a challenge I can always try upgrading. If it's rare and in my "scope" I'll take the set. In fact - despite being only a few cards from comletion in a few low population sets - I'd buy a complete set of them if I ever saw them and could afford it (unfortunately the more sophisticated my knowledge base becomes - the less I am able to afford anything)........ !

Ralph---I have to admire your self restraint---what i do is throw myself at whatever catches my eye--I've been surprised at how many times a big group of cards comes along anyway. Blind alleys & impossibles I have completed this way: the FG subset of BLB; Loose-Wiles set; Dirty Dozen; Strange True Stories; AIA;---heck, if talking about "impossibles", I once received my Wrapper 2 days before Hugh Jones!!! Honest!! (I hesitated to mention this one, since I know you are extremely sensitive about Wrapper delivery---my point is that someday YOU will get your Wrapper before anyone else, & I hope it's filled with ads for CR with tabs attached)---speaking of which, I hope you give the forum members first view of CR set complete with tabs when you finally get there--
The only part of the collectaholic disease I don't have is the sad affliciton of the type collector, but luckily we have Chuck to tackle that one for all of us--

I go on aesthetics and subject matter. As an avid Trekkie (TOS only), I did the 1976 Star Trek set. As a James Bond enthusiast, the Philly sets were naturals. Had to buy a few Bruce Lee cards from the Green Hornet. Kung Fu was a mainstay as a kid, so that set had to be had. I lov western history so Good Guys and Bad Guys was a must. I saw T68s at CLE last year, was taken with the art, and started on those. I had the Donruss Spec Sheet Hot Rod cards as a kid but lost them so I bought a set on ebay.

And then there's my exhibit cards...don't even get me started on those...

http://imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards

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Yes, Don, type card collecting is a "sad affliction" indeed. But really that pursuit was an extension of my obsessive compulsive set completion affliction. To address the original question in the thread, my progression has gone something like this: (1) Collected baseball cards starting as a kid in the late 60's (2) Early to mid 70s I got into vintage baseball cards through The Trader Speaks, etc. Those were the days, T206 Wagners going for $1500 and people thought that was outrageous. Eventually college and life in general intruded and I gave up collecting (3) In early 1998 I discovered eBay and on a whim decided to see if I could complete one of sets I'd always enjoyed in my earlier days, the 1953 Topps baseball set (I did actually complete it pretty easily on eBay before that year ended) (4) At the time I was working on my first Civil War book and one day I randomly searched for Civil War cards and found Civil War News. That led me to Mars Attacks and Battle and somewhere along the line I bought a Benjamin guide. That really turned things on for me when I saw the 30's stuff. At first I went for the military themes but eventually my favorites became things I would have never known about if not for the guide: Strange True Stories, Believe it or Not, Tootsie Circus, Noah's Ark. Through ebay, Hugh Jones and the Wrapper I became a voracious consumer of 30's gum cards. In 1999 I had the good fortune of connecting with Dan C (I'll let him tell that story) and he has become a treasure friend both in collecting and in life in general. Have also connected with many other good people like Ralph, Don, Jim, Mark Finn and too many others to name (5) I eventually reached a state a couple of years ago where I had finished pretty much every 30's R set that can be completed, so I turned my attention to the hardest set of all...acquiring all of the types between R1 and R200. But that task has finally run its course. I think I'm about 15 types short of completing the task, but with one exception (which board member Jim has) I have never seen the types I'm missing available.

So I have actually come full circle and am in the same boat as the original poster. I am actually trying to figure out what to collect next. I like E cards, so that may be my next venture or I may stick to the 30's and focus on bread and food issues from that era. As others have said, in nonsports it's all good!

Great story Chuck. It shows just how extremely rare some of these cards are. There are some 60 Honus Wagners out there, all commanding huge dollars; yet you cannot even find one mere sample from some 15 sets. Truly remarkable.
Note to Ralph, I gave up on Leader Superman years ago but have since collected a type set of the Coupon cards (front box panels) for Supie, Army, Navy and Marines, it makes a nice set.

Chuck---the same thing happened to me WRT the Benj Orange guide---I found it in a comic book shop in Portland Ore & immediately got hooked----it was the true catalyst! My only regret about it (& all other guides) is that it is not in color. If it had been, I would have started way many more sets early on. We have something better nowadays with the webpages from Dan C. showing all those great type cards from yourself et al et al---otherwise i would never know what they really look like since they are so rare--
Jim--I also enjoy the R3 set---those primitive appearing cards are way cool---what's your thought on how many cards were actually made for the Marines subset? I have 6 & wonder if anyone has seen more.
Finally, my apologies to Dan B. if i have contributed to hi jacking this excellent thread---however, I still want to point out that the sets themselves are really only the beginning---there's wrappers, boxes, advert pieces, albums, original art---it never ends!

Don
No idea how many marine cards, but they are few and far between and much scarcer than Superman. IMO
BTW: I have a Hail Columbia Leader candy/toy bag which places them in the late 1800's, a B Scout Leader bag with a 1918 silent film premium, then onto a Xmas stocking with candy and plastic toys from circa 1960. It seems they were in continuous operation for almost 100 years. And quite innovative and prolific the whole while.

Hey CR, maybe you should go collect 1960s baseball cards again, now?

(And if so, pls let me offer to 'dispose' of your other cards for you, you bein' busy at work and all . . .)

heehee

Sure, Ralph, get me your address again and I'll start mailing the packages. Actually at one point last year I played around with the idea of getting back into baseball cards and going after some of the tougher 30's sets that I never finished when I was younger (sets like DeLong, George C. Miller, etc). I thought it might be a nice complement to my 30's nonsports stuff. But reading the vintage baseball board convinced me not to dive back in those waters. Too many fakes and too much angst in general in that field of collecting, definitely not what I need after a day of work. And it reminded me of couple other reasons why I drifted from baseball to nonsports: I tend to like artwork over photographs and I also don't find baseball cards very interesting anymore. There are a pretty limited number of poses (you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball) and after the variety of stuff in vintage nonsports that seems pretty boring. Also, while I was obsessed with baseball when I was younger I have just lost a lot of my love for the game.

Chuck R.--I also scan the BB side occasionaly and am shocked at the sophistication of the fakes---there was a recent post there of 6 or so cards---heck, they all looked genuine to me, but the BB guys just spotted them as phonies right away---it must be a very prevalent problem for them all to be so educated.
Many of the sports sets are somewhat boring, but the colors are fantastic in some--you prob. have already taken the step of getting all the reprint sets that are available--they are actually quite nice to look at.
As for vallue on the dollar, you're prob. still much better off on the NS side---you can get a reasonable grade dirty dozen (if U can find it) for the price of a mid grade Sport Kings.

Hello to All ,

I know nothing of US sports cards but i must admit i like the art work in the set with the ' Horsemen of the Apocolypse ' card in it .
I've been told it might not be a baseball set after all (Cheers) :--)

Mark .

i once had a Bobby Orr lunchbox in about 1971 , that's as close as i got to overseas sports

Chuck, I tend to agree about the images. One exception in regards to 30's sports-cards would be the Sports Kings set with the various typres of sports.

Chuck, pls check with Fedex, the packages still haven't arrived yet! (Hope you insured.  )

Stay with us on the NS side.  From reading the baseball card forum, occasionally, there just seems to be way too much anger/angst on the sportcard side of the hobby. 

(I guess with sportcard values where they are, this doesn't come as any surprise.  It long ago ceased being just a pastime and is, perhaps unintentionally, a part of every sportcard collector's investment portfolio!  As a collateral effect, I guess, our NS cards are also continuing to get more expensive, too, but nothing like the alternative!)

 

Baseball cards in particular are just scary sometimes to buy. Boxing is even getting there for some older issues. I still freak when someone says a card I own is worth four figures (haven't hit a five figure one yet...). I think "shouldn't I be selling this and investing for my family" but I guess I already have if the card has appreciated that much. NS is fun just because I can afford to collect it and not worry about having to recoup my investment. Plus, the abundance of autographed sets is just great fun. Nothing like picking up a card of "Scotty" actually signed by James Doohan or the James Gandolfini I added in last year. Although I do admit that I haven't had the stomach to step up and get a Kirk-Spock signed pair.

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