Don't want to spoil it for anyone, but I must say that everything
stopped for 2+ hours today as I read some superb articles by
Les Davis and fellow Net54 members.


.
.
.

That's nice, Dan.

I'll look forward to reading this, about 2 weeks from now when it arrives in Bangkok.

Don't feel too bad Ralph. Syracuse, NY and Bangkok must have the same zipcode because I usually don't get mine till way after I hear about it from others too.

Alan

With the most honor and all due respect to: Dan,Les, Ralph et al.

This was the most disappointing wrapper article I have ever encountered!

The Wrapper is Great! Long Live the Wrapper! I try to get folks who do not subscibe, to subscribe. This is my first and only time I was left wanting as reader.

This article revealed nothing about this set. Gave no new info. No sheet layout,no details . This was mainly a rehashing of Threads here at net54.

Should have been titled: Peoples opinons on R36

No mention of Tan backs vs. Grey backs. All but 1 color card came in both..do you know which one? Do you know why?

What about pics of the badge premium?

FULL tab cards?

This is 1 of my favorite sets. I had looked forward to this article for sometime. a lot of sizzle but no steak.

If you want my vote for best wrapper...I'll give it just for the cover pics and exposure that this set deserved.

But that article was an insult compared to the time and information provided so many other R sets in other wrappers of years past and present.

I still have steam coming out of my ears!

BTW I was bred in old Kentucky and have loafed ever since. Will not work in a bakery,even though there is a lot dough in it.

Ralph and Alan---not to rub salt in your wounds, but not only did I already read my copy cover to cover, BUT---I already reserved the advertised Strongman card by phone, so no need to waste your time trying to get it---

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh! 

Well, you know how it is in show business, you can't please 'em all. I go with Dan here, I thought Wrapper #244 was well rounded and full of interesting material. I like the shift change Les has taken, wherein he has picked up the quill again and started to write more instead of just slaving over his paste ups and typesetting.

There are Wrappers writers who specialize in the real details of the old card and the newer card sets. They run up charts and spread sheets of how many cards had such and such features and the endless variations. Marc Simon is good at that sort of thing and others are, too. Bless their hearts, that is wonderful. For my own part, I don't possess the inclination or the assiduous dedication for that type of article. I go more for the sweep, if you understand what I mean.

Now on a serious note, here it is, Les has drawn input from this Forum into a regular slot of The Wrapper. The last five, six or seven articles that I have written, I have gone on this Forum and announced in advance what set I wished write about. Then I asked for anyone who had information about same to contact me and share what they know. I never received a single response. Just how do you suppose a person, isolated, is supposed to do research on a 60 year old trading set ? I can do many things, but I cannot read minds. If Wrappers readers and Forum surfers want to share their knowledge and incidental experiences they might want to consider doing so.

Well, Maybe next month I'll tackle American G-men, first the vertical. Thanks to Dan for his web images, I drop in on them
at odd moments.
JPB

I think the greatest all-time articles to appear in The Wrapper were those exhaustive studies of 1930s cards by Chris Watson , based on meticulous research and spreadsheeting of card populations.  (As we all know, that research then led to the creation of the NSB.)

We genuinely learned something from Chris' articles, and they were fun to read, to boot. 

Having said that, currently I really enjoy reading the stuff that Les has been putting together and agree that the work of Writer Les is more fun than Cutter/Paster Les.   And the comments/opinions from the N54 boys always seem to read much better on paper than here in the ether.  Dunno how, but we do sound more 'telligent, no?

 

JOEL:

Thank you for reducing the outflow of steam from my ears!

You make some interesting points Joel.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh in my earlier post.

But the flipside:
A lot of that "stuff" you say does not interest you was the very juicy "stuff" I was hoping for in the R36 article.

For example, there could be an article detailing process,procedure,layouts,artist,companies,distribution methods,premiums,est. production for Hopalong Cassidy and I would not blink an eye as I turned the page to something else as I don't collect " Hoppy " .

But this is one of my, if not, my favorite issue. So I was especially looking forward to getting some detail,an oldtimers insight or some type of previously unknown nugget.

Zip, zilch, zero!!

I did not know anymore about this issue after reading the article than I did before reading it.(sigh)

Like Ralph (we all seem brighter in print) I enjoy some of the net 54 threads that show up in the wrapper...BUT I DID NOT expect it to be the R36 article I had waited for since last issue.

Again, Love to all here, Love to Les...just thought this R36 story was fluff and a very brief overview at best.

Regrets,
C

Hello to All ,

Received my Wrapper yesterday , i've yet to test the waters .

I have to agree with Mr Ramone concerning last issues r36 article .
It was a case of ' deja vu ' with that one . Mostly C & P .
Didn't stop me going and out and ' buying ' 17 cards from the series though .

I'm a new subscriber to the publicaton and i think it does a GREAT job for NS .

----
Mark

I can't find that name in my subscriber rolodex. And I can't find it in the article index either. But I sincerely apologize to Charley for my fluff articles, which are meant to inspire interest in old sets. When I ask forum members for input, they scatter....My articles have always been a Spanish feast: a great deal of tablecloth and very little meat. But I will continue to bring to light older sets through pictures and comments. I am no expert, and I again apologize to Charley Ramone for my "style." Meanwhile, the real experts hoard their knowledge....

Hello to All ,

Hi Les ,

I just finished reading your 1934 article in issue #244 .

Fair play it was great . Full of humour , info & cards . Well Done .

^^^...love the Spanish feast quip , top class .

If Dans the Man then Les is the Guy .

Keep up the good work .

----
Mark

I'm sure the article was both "great" and "lame". People are different. Some like to set aside their daily activities and immerse themselves in books, movies, or articles, even if they have seen or read them before. Others are more analytical and prefer new ideas or information.

Joel, I don't recall ever seeing a request for information. It may be that I don't read all the threads on the new stuff (that's 1930's and later to me). Or maybe the request wasn't identified on the title thread (on a side note: I hate the threads that are titled "What are these" or something similar. Sometimes they end up including good information but it's impossible to search and find later).

There are many folks on this Board who have the knowledge on at least a few sets that maybe should "step up to the plate" and write an article for the Wrapper. I'm sure Les can edit the grammar if that's a concern. And the "experts" on the Board who don't have time to write could edit the information before it gets published.

That being said - if I recall correctly, Les mentioned in the Wrapper or here that he has a backlog of articles to be printed. Was that correct? I can probably write something new on 4-5 sets if there is interest.

What backlog? Every issue starts as a few blank pages and a prayer that we can get to 60...then 68...possibly 76?...wow 84! More articles are needed now because few can afford to renew(or so they say)and we need to add to the info/entertainment page count. Scary times, folks....

I stand corrected. I know I saw something, maybe it was a "backlog" of your ideas that need to get written.

So if you are looking for content, what do we need to do? A word document with some scans? I know I could write a short article on any number of the most popular "N" or "T" sets and include a few pics to make a full page or 2.

I've talked to Les about doing an article on the REA lot I won, so based on his comments here and email to me today I had better get on it. I wrote a few articles a number of years ago but life, etc got in the way since then. As someone mentioned above, there is enough knowledge out there to put together some fascinating articles so let's all get to it. Don't let Les down!

I agree-an excellent issue #244! A very diverse group of articles and recollections--well done and congrats to all the authors here.

Les, now you've done it!

Your quip about Wrapper = Spanish Feast was great, but has lodged a mental image I can't shake.

Question: If the Wrapper is a Spanish Feast, who is Les?
Answer: Remember Manuel, the Spanish waiter on Fawlty Towers?

LES:

My opinion stands on the R36 "article".

My comments were directly aimed at this part of #243.

I have no problem with your "style" (as you called it) at all.

You made a post on this board right before Mastro/Legendary auction before last that indicated the nest Wrapper was going to feature Cops & Robbers Gum.

After I saw your post I sat on pins and needles waiting for #243 to arrive. Licking my cerebal chops.

When I pulled said issue from my box and saw the cover I was very careful not to wrinkle it on the drive home. Thats how excited I was. Imagine my rain soaked R36 parade as I finished reading this short "blast".

The rest of the zine was , as usual, great!

Perhaps my expectations were stratospheric? Maybe I built this one up to be more than it could ever have been in my mind?

Whatever the case. My comments are NOT meant to hurt. I was let down, thats all. I expected more on R36.

I had shared this feeling with others but when i saw this post I had to "tell it like it is".

Love Dan, Love the Board, Love the Wrapper and Love you Les.

Thanks for your pointed,yet funny post above.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

BTW #244 just arrived SUPER article on "1934...." also Bill C & Bill B!

Your critics don't hate your food...just the check!(wink,nod)

Charley may be you know to much about the set and finding something new would be in fact a discovery.

Never a dull moment around here, is there? I appreciate Mr. Ramone's comments and Eric's too. I think that the words demonstrate that they care, if you see what I mean. If I can just make another point. When it comes to doing 'research' on an ancient card set, I believe that I speak for others as well as myself (Bill Christensen recently confided his parallel sentiments to me) that on your own it can be almost impossible at times to turn up any new or worthwhile information. Sometimes you hit a home run and find something, like I got lucky not too long ago and turned up some Topps inside stuff about the creation of Civil War News. I suppose that for some readers it wasn't news at all but I suspect for many readers it was.
Now, I always have a strong inclination, that somebody out there surely must know something insightful about any given old set or maybe a funny story about a personal experience with it. I am pretty sure then, that if that party ends up reading a Wrapper article about same, he may surely say to himself, "well why didn't he write this or that ? " The simple answer is that I know if you don't tell me.
So, if we could very positive. There is no worldwide database about non sport trading cards. The collectors are the keepers of the secrets. With the internet and certainly via this Forum, there exists an opportunity here for wise old timers ( I am 58 ) to impart a few of their tidbits to be injected into print, via The Wrapper, without having to sit down and compose a dreaded article by themselves. That is all I wish to say and now back to scrounging around after more cards that I need.

Hi all,

Claude, point taken. Perhaps there is nothing new about this issue. Like others above, I'm sure there are some with knowledge who have not come forward..maybe they will now.

Save yourself some ulcers.
If you are not happy, just don't renew your subscription.

I'm with Dan, I loved the latest Wrapper issue and especially liked the 1934 article, a great article! I especially liked the way the article was personalized with Les living close to the events described.

Hi,

Here is a quiz about two series:

1. 1956 Jets- can you identify the two card numbers which occur with both upright and inverted backs?

2. 1963 Rosan JFK- can you identify three card numbers which occur in "normal" and "mirror-image" fronts?

Answers later, after we see who's been doing their homework on ancient sets!

Best in collecting, Bill Bengen

Here are two I have have been trying to find answers to for some time:

1. How many cards are in the 1953 Quaker Oats BION set? The highest numbered card I know of is No. 46.

2. Do Blank Back 1953 Parkhurst BION cards exist? - No one I know of has ever seen any.

LENTZ:

I have no intention of discontinuing my Wrapper. If you read my post this was the FIRST time I was let down by Les and crew. It would be silly to unsubscribe because of one article in one wrapper. I don't think I care for your tone. Save your own ulcers sir and change your name to Keith Crabapple. I can't think of the last time you posted something positive!

KIRK and Others:

I was talking about issue #243 (r36 article) NOT #244.

If you want to respond to post, maybe thou should read post.

(writer kicks cat,throws baby out window,poisons fish tank,drinks sour milk and unloads 44 ruger into ceiling)

I have been reading this post and was quite confused. I thought the most recent issue was pretty good (#244) and then Charley chimed in saying he didn't like it and things got real colorful. So then from Charley's last post I see he was talking about issue #243. Then things starting making more sense but I was left wondering why Charley was talking about #243 under a #244 post!

Todd, The title of post "current wrapper - one of the best ever"
Dan the Man posted #243 with the Cops & Robbers Cover.

I see now after reading your post that Dan has removed that issue pic TODAY and replaced with #244 which I extremely enjoyed. In fact I enjoyed #243 save for the R36 "article"..I thought it was less than what this (cops and robbers gum)issue deserved.

With the new picture and many posting about #244, this renders most comments/posts moot. Which is probably a good thing.

I love the Wrapper,nothing like it left in print.

Charley,

Dan's post was ALWAYS about issue #244. You can plainly see that, as of right now, he did not ever edit his original post.

Just say you got the issue wrong and move on. It's no big deal.

the bitter truth is.....that the file, called current.jpg couldhave showed in browsers as the old image.

I never understood why that happens. Many times I'll udpate
webpage images, and have to reload/refresh 2-3-4x before seeing
the image that was at Photobucket.

When I posted, 244 was the image at Photobucket.
Charley could easily fall into the category I mentioned above.

what did Jack webb say ? "just the facts...just the facts"
hahaha. I probably have that one wrong......geesh......


.
.

Jim, I thought it queer as well that issue #244 appeared today and there is no "edit by..." on his post.

The only thing I can surmise is that I did not refresh my browser so I have been seeing the Green Cops and Robbers Cover #243. Does not seem possible but these computers have made a monkey out of me before.

Jim , you are pretty straight on in your posts. But you are out of line to suggest "I was wrong and move on"

How can I be wrong about my opinion chief?

Jim didn't say your opinion was wrong and move on, he said you got the issue number wrong and move on. A huge difference.

Thanks Danny Boy...I thought I was losin it!

In the grand scheme of things. All of this jibber jabber was for naught as the article has been published and we will not see another on R36 for years.

I emailed Les last night.

Old ways be best ways now,best not say more.

JIM & JIM

Please See Dan's Post Above

I hated to pat the writers on the back for fear of missing one,
but Joel, Bill C, Bill B, Kurt, Mike, Bob and Les wrote the
articles that took up my day and motivated my posting...
.....thanks to all of you
=======================================================================
O/T-----I will share this with you all. I love going to Community Plays,
and give credit to all the actors as I know they are giving their best.
I have gone to these local plays with gals that felt as I and with gals
that had to criticize. I respected their feelings, told them why I felt as
I did......and they had a different outlook with the following local plays
(end of O/T)

I have nothing against "Broadway Plays", just like the small audiences that
attend local plays.

A psychiatrist is a guy who goes to the strip club and watch the customers

I've often wished someone would call me
a "New Jersey Italian-Scotch-Irish-English-American Indian" psychiatrist.

Sigh...... it wasn't in the cards.
.
.
.

Don Hayes post (above)....

I've waited patiently to see how long it would take....
..sort of like a psychiatrist, but now I realize you all
....missed it.
.
.
.

Les - Thank You for the condolence message you put on Pg. 50 and the sympathy card you sent me. Both meant a lot to Me, Nina & Marianka.

It was really appreciated.

Dan, I did catch Don's joke but since Ralph had responded right away I didn't add on...pretty funny, though

Dan, Chuck & Ralph---the only reason I made my little (not very funny) joke was to draw attention away from the Great R 52 Nicaragua Flag/Bowl controversy, which continues to rage unabated on it's own separate thread. I was afraid the large number of R 52 responses were getting overheated & threatened to burn up that thread, so I wanted to cool it off a bit. Looks like I succeeded. (Jim---it's not the bowl that's missing, it's the girl holding the flag!)

You see, Don, there's the problem.

Your other thread was unfortunately rather confusing, at least for me.

(Here I've been spending days scanning eBay, Burdick, Benjamin, the NSB, old Wrappers, etc . . . looking for cards about Nicaraguan BOWLERS. But only rolling gutter balls so far, and nothing to report back . . .)

...to Charley Ramone. I should be better than the rant above. And anyone who has performed all these years with The Ramones has suffered enough(ha). I will now go stand in the corner for a well-deserved "timeout."

Ralph---thanks for the compliment, as "confusing" is the highest praise I've ever had for one of my posts. Altho I hate to resort to the tactic of explaining myself in easily understandable terms, I suppose I could give it a try. Every checklist of R52 lists 2 Nicaragua poses, one where the girl holds a bowl, & one where she holds a flag. The "hold a flag" pose does not exist (my theory at least). The reason the "hold a flag" pose does not exist is that Benj (or his associates) made up the list by looking at the card backs & the Guatemala card they used had an erroneous Nicaragua back--(that also explains why they left Guatemala off their checklist).

Another useful term you may use when describing my posts is "soporific"---for example, I fell asleep twice while typing this response.



At this point I would usually start another post about how I recently found these uncut sheets of Holloways, solving a question I've had about them for 15 years, but alas, I know i would only put everyone to sleep again.


[IMG][/IMG]

Don,
We're all awake now!

Don, whew!!!!  Where did THAT sheet come from????!   Paramedics just got my heart restarted so am getting this message typed, soon as I could.

(By the way, I finally DID find a reference to your Nicaraguan bowler mystery.  It was in a cult movie from the 1990s, called "El Lebowski Grande".  Something about a bowler from Nicaragua ("El Dude"), who was also a NS card collector . . .)  

Show All Don...Front and Back...No Bowl Sh*t

Don, Don, Don...why must you torment me? Can't you cut me just one Holloway from that sheet? LOL All I can say is wow

Chuck
You'll notice that Don said "strips" in the plural. He's holding out on us because we didn't respond to his Flag & Bowl thread. So everybody please click on this link and cut and paste this statement:

Gee Don that's swell, please show us your Holloways.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/thread/1245955526/last-1245955934/Great+Flag-Bowl+Nicarague+Controversy!!!!

Todd---great graphics---whenever I do see something new, that's exactly how I feel

Jim--as usual you have seen right thru my game plan---when U guys show me the front/backs of the R 52 uncut sheets, I'll show more Holloways

Ralph & Chuck----I'd love to include you guys in my will, but I know that the moment I did my future life span would be about 12 minutes. In fact I have left a detailed note to our local Chief of Police & DA that if I am ever discovered to have perished under mysterious circumstances that the forum members should be very closely examined. (I'm taking names!)

We're being held hostage by R52. How unhobbylike.

Jim---sorry I missed your sarcasm in above couple posts. To set the record straight I'll show pretty much what I want to when I want to. Too bad if U don't like it, & I certainly don't need your permission. As for responding to my R52 post---save your breath---your input wouldn't be worth much anyway. As for unhobby like --I intend to keep some information about my fishing holes to myself, so find your own.

Well I don't think we'll ever see Don again. Deleted his photobucket account too. I haven't seen that kind of a temper tantum in years.

Excuse me Don, but I certainly wasn't serious, just like yourself most of the time. You stay, I'll leave.

Hey Guys, 

Everyone was just kidding around, nothing serious intended.

Both of you are great vintage collectors, of the very highest rank, and wonderful contributors to our board. 

Am sure I speak for everyone here in urging both of you to stick around with us and not let an innocent misunderstanding (and it was surely that) break up this gang of ours . . .  !!! 

(If we were actually together, and not just gathered in cyberspace, at about this point we'd all be heading off to a bar somewhere to chug down some beers with buffalo wings . . . and probably end the night wayyyy into the wee hours with Jim and Don doing a karaoke duet . . .

 

Ralph

Pray tell, who is kidding?

Come on fellas, it's only cardboard. Let's not devolve into the baseball board.

Hey guys,
When I first read this post I laughed at the "wise cracking" banter that was going on.

Then when it looked like it was serious I reread it and was aghast!

I know there is a lot of information that is kept under-the-belt. This is very understandable since there is a lot of competition for hard-to-find items. However, the most tragic thing that happens to our little hobby is the loss of information! We have lost some major players in the last couple of years. Some of these guys were experts in their areas. People like Hugh Jones. Just think of all the 1930's-1940's information that disappeared when he died. Then there was David Grimes. A ton of tobacco and other early paper knowledge gone! John Zanghi knew so much about many obscure bread and food issues - thankfully he contributed a lot of information to the NSB before he passed away. Dick Dahlquist was another one. Nobody knew more about aviation cards than he did. There was so much he could have contributed that is now lost forever.

Don and Jim - both of you guys have amazing stuff! I have learned so much just from seeing pictures of some of the gems you have posted here. Please don't disappear from our little internet family over what is hopefully just a misunderstanding.

Wrapper just arrived!

Nice Ralph...I think Les might already be mailing the next issue

could you please let me know if there was ever a wrapper with articles on my two favorite gum card sets 1962 topps mars attacks and 1973 topps test emergency/adam 12? also my fav wrapper forget the issue was article on 1960s get smart gum card set, think we should have a post with our fav wrapper ever?

just click on the diff images to see more of that type

http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/z-ns-start/W/go.html
.
.
.

that is surreal the wrapper started when i was only 3 years old, les i'm so happy to see your vision is still alive and well 31 years later, thank you.

I believe that the Wrapper had a special issue early on completely devoted to Mars Attacks. That's the only issue I don't have, so if anyone has it and is tired of it....

chuck if someone gives it to you and when you get tired of it remember slacker

Will do...although I think the chances of either of us getting it that way are about the same (i.e. zero)

Slacker,
You asked about how to find out what was in older issues of the Wrapper. You can view the master index here:

http://www.non-sport.com/wrapperidx2.html

I don't think that's been updated the last several issues though, so for the most updated chronological listing, go to:
http://www.radiohorrorhosts.com/backish.html

I hope that helps.

As far as the other posters who we hope will come back, if they never read this board again, how would they know they're being urged to return? Has anyone emailed them direct? If that doesn't work, I have a brother who's a pilot who can do some skywriting.

thanks kurt i enjoyed reading lots of articles you wrote in the wrapper.

Enter our next Wrapper drawing, which has the Mars Attack Special Issue(1981) as one of the prizes....

Holy crap, Les, how many times can I enter?

wow chuck we might have a shot at it after all, we could give it joint custedy 6 months with me, 6 months with you

Hello to All ,

I'm so glad i'm a subsciber to The Wrapper .
Another nice prize from the publications Head Honcho .

----
Mark