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The Wrapper

May 19 2011 at 11:59 AM
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Jerry  (Login WarHoundR69)
from IP address 98.15.247.145

Well I got tbhe latest Wrapper today. Another excellent issue.

Eagerly anticipating the full run I won at REA.

I was wondering if there would be interest in a Gallery section for the Wrapper? After I get them I would be willing to scan every page of every issue and send them to Dan (If he is willing to do it). I hope this would be okay with Les Davis.

So any interest out there?

 
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Les Davis
(Login LesWrap1)
24.1.49.174

Sorry, Jerry

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May 19 2011, 1:32 PM 

Not okay with Les Davis...copyright laws.

 
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Jerry
(Login WarHoundR69)
98.15.247.145

Re: The Wrapper

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May 19 2011, 5:30 PM 

Just a thought - sorry Les.

 
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Bill Christensen
(Login willhc)
75.30.76.121

The Wrapper

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May 19 2011, 6:25 PM 

Jerry, what are you trying to do to poor Les? We finally get some good news about his health in the latest issue and you post this thread. Holy crap, I'll bet Les has to go in for more heart tests in a day or so. - just kidding, but I know Les needs to occasionally sell an old article or two to help pay a few bills.
This reminds me of a certain board member wanting to start a 'Wrapper' club on line about ten years ago.

 
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Kurt K.
(Login Monsterwax)
67.233.165.139

Re: The Wrapper

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May 20 2011, 10:03 AM 

I think an on-line Wrapper Club is a great idea. To join, all one has to do is get a subscription. Then we can talk about the stuff we read in the Wrapper on-line, like say, here. Wait a click... that's what we're doing. (I guess we could use more dues paying members, har-har-har!)

 
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Rand
(Login Thrill-of-the-Hunt)
75.91.14.97

get another hobby

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May 20 2011, 11:07 AM 

jerry, if you have time to scan every page of the wrapper then it may be time to get another hobby. life is to short to sit and scan a magazine.

 
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Anonymous
(Login LesWrap1)
24.1.49.174

You're right, Rand...

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May 20 2011, 12:00 PM 

...20,000 pages! Gimme a break!

 
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Jerry
(Login WarHoundR69)
98.15.247.145

Retired & I Love This Hobby

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May 20 2011, 12:17 PM 

Everyone - I'm retired with plenty of time on my hands. I have scanning on an assembly line. Approx. 10 secs. per scan, so 360 scans per hour. Divide that by 10,000 scans means approx. 28 hrs. of scanning time. Even double the scanning time & it is still doable. So maybe I spend 50 to 60 hours on the project,

I have currently over 5,000 scans posted on my PSA Registry sets plus I have posted & emailed hundreds of scans to Dan which he has posted in the Gallery.

Not that hard/impossible to do.

 
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Kurt K.
(Login Monsterwax)
67.233.165.139

Re: The Wrapper

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May 20 2011, 12:20 PM 

Say what you will about "wasting time" scanning all those Wrapper pages, but I've scanned every single one of them myself... with my eyes! (Maybe that's why my vision is getting blurry, ya think?) My only defense is the old adage, "Time you enjoy wasting isn't wasted time."

 
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Geoff Litwack
(Login symbebekos)
98.149.112.241

Scanning The Wrapper

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May 20 2011, 12:42 PM 

Forgive me if this has been raised before, but Les, if Jerry is truly willing to scan the entire run of The Wrapper, why not let him do it and then sell a DVD with the complete run in PDF for, I don't know, $99? The DVD creation and shipping could be 100% handled by an outfit like CafePress, and you and the whole non-sport community would benefit. After all, it's not like you see an additional dime when complete runs of paper back issues sell for $1,000+!

 
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Jerry
(Login WarHoundR69)
98.15.247.145

10000 Scans

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May 20 2011, 1:27 PM 

By The way _ I like to simplify numbers when I can. I figured 250 isuues with 40 pages each. That is how I came up with 10,000 scans. Probably pretty close but if there are more then oh well, some extra hours there. I am positive that the entire project will take less than 100 hours of effort.

Edited to add - Wrapper No. 259 has 78 pages counting Front and Back cover. So do the math (And figuring each issue of the Wrapper has the same number of pages) we have a theoretical maximum of 20,202 scans. Say you can do 100 scans per hour (Easy to do) you are at approx. 200+ hours of time needed. Increase that to a max. of 300 hours of effort due to ineffieciencys. Then spend 10 hours per week and in approx. 8 months the project would be done.

I am 100% sure I could do the entire thing in less than 6 months (Spending 10 hours per week). All I have to do to free up the time is spend about 1.5 hours per day not watching TV.

Les - I am not planning on doing this. Just crunching nos. about how it is feasible to do so.


    
This message has been edited by WarHoundR69 from IP address 98.15.247.145 on May 20, 2011 2:00 PM


 
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Charley Ramone
(Login oldbubblegum)
64.12.116.135

Hmmm

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May 20 2011, 1:35 PM 

Geoff, No offense my brother but I think you have a lack of understanding on this matter.

Does not matter if Les has 10,000 auctions going for 1200.00 under his belt or he does not need the money and just won 54,000,000 powerball.
Should Bill Gates giveaway Windows Versions and software for free?

Its his (Mr.Davis) blood,sweat and tears (which would be a great name for a rock group)(smirk)and he owns it.

2 words: COPYRIGHT LAWS

Nuff Said

"tellin it like it is since 1967"

 
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Geoff Litwack
(Login symbebekos)
98.149.112.241

Hi Charlie

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May 20 2011, 1:53 PM 

I did not at all mean that Les should give away the content of the back issues for free. Quite the contrary: I suggest that if Jerry were willing to donate the labor to scan all the back issues, Les could offer a DVD - for sale - at a price of his choosing, with minimal effort to him and no upfront costs. This would be purely incremental income - making a profit from intellectual property that is currently fallow. My point about the sale of paper back issues is that no matter what the price realized, Les doesn't see any additional profit from it, whereas he certainly could by selling digital copies of the archives.

 
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Jerry
(Login WarHoundR69)
98.15.247.145

I Will Not Send Scans Of Any Issues Or Articles

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May 20 2011, 2:09 PM 

Les - I have the highest respect for you with great admiration for the superlative periodical you have produced. I will honor your intellectual property rights so I have to say that I will not send out scans of Wrapper issues/articles to anyone who has requested even if I have previously agreed to do so. The only way I will do it is if you get specific permission (From Les Davis) to do so.


 
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Lance
(Login thecatspajamas)
98.87.70.144

Re: The Wrapper

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May 20 2011, 3:06 PM 

Guys,
This was all covered in a previous string that I inadvertently touched off last fall when a similar run of The Wrapper back-issues was sold through another auction house.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/message/1283108041/%26quot%3BThe+Wrapper%26quot%3B+back+issues...-

Bottom line: Les doesn't want any compilations of the back-issues produced, whether he does the work or someone volunteers for it. It's his baby, and his prerogative. I think plenty of arguments for and against the various possible compilations were pretty well hashed out the last time around, and it sounds like Les is sticking to his guns this time, so let's not add to his stress levels.

As Les said the last time around, "My daughter will be open to suggestions after I'm cremated, but that may, hopefully, be a few years down the road."

 
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Charley Ramone
(Login oldbubblegum)
64.12.116.135

EXACTLY Lance...

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May 20 2011, 3:34 PM 

Geoff: I too see both sides my friend but Ownership trumps the other.
I would love to have a DVD or some such but these would just be bootlegged,pirated and pretty much dilute what 1 man has tirelessly worked for , for years! Not Cool.

As an Artist and Idea Man, I have seen my ART and my IDEAS ripped off by others WITHOUT permission. Not pretty and a terrible feeling especially when someone else profits off your hard work with no credit or compensation. Snakes!

Can a man make a dollar?


"tellin it like it is since 1964"

 
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Charley Ramone
(Login oldbubblegum)
64.12.116.135

ANOTHER THING

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May 20 2011, 4:01 PM 

I just went back re-read that thread, I remembered most of it. If anything.. I could see a day where (like newspapers) an online version will/could be needed or enjoyed.

Personally, I also could see it would be a great idea if EXXON/MOBIL stations gave free refills.I would enjoy that too. Easy for me to say since I don't own them,Don't even hold their stock.

As the old saying goes: "Its very easy to spend somebody else's money"

Or as the bible puts it: "...stolen water is sweet.."

We should all be as concerned to a "hobby legends" personal health vs. Ideas on what he should do with the Wrapper..(Sigh)

VIVA LA WRAPPER!

"sadly tellin it like it is since 1966"




 
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Geoff Litwack
(Login symbebekos)
98.149.112.241

Piracy

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May 20 2011, 4:27 PM 

Charley: I sincerely doubt any among us would pirate Les' work - it's not like we're talking about a Radiohead album here, this is a small community of - in my experience, and I have at one point or another dealt with almost everyone here - wonderfully honest and upright gentlemen. Of course Les has control of his work, and it should be no other way. The fact remains, no DVD or back issue reprinting, no additional profit from that material. I stand by any decision Les makes or has made about the subject, of course.

 
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Charley Ramone
(Login oldbubblegum)
64.12.116.135

Reality check...

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May 20 2011, 4:55 PM 

Hey Geoff, Not picking at you bro...we just see this differently I think.

"I sincerely doubt any among us would pirate Les' work"
ME: Really?, so can I get that in writing? Are you bonded? Can you give me your mothers maiden name? Here on the board? On the INTERNET!?

" it's not like we're talking about a Radiohead album here,"
ME: So, if it were music it would be of more importance? More interest equals better treatment under the law?
Not according to my attorneys.

"this is a small community of - in my experience, and I have at one point or another dealt with almost everyone here -"
ME: No you have'nt. Have you dealt with all who lurk here? Visit here? Post anon here? You can bet the farm and you will loose. Put it in the book!

".. wonderfully honest and upright gentlemen."
ME: I wholeheartedly agree with all I have dealt with or talked to...no argument about that.

"Of course Les has control of his work,"
ME: Of course!

"and it should be no other way."
ME: I totally agree dude!

"The fact remains, no DVD or back issue reprinting, no additional profit from that material."
ME: True, but that's on the owner, why is it your concern? If a boy wants to cut your neighbors yard for free..who are you to go insist he profit?

"I stand by any decision Les makes or has made about the subject, of course."
ME: We Agree!

Geoff, you are a straight arrow,great non sporter and contributor here. We agree on some points. But I just don't get this whole ".. He(les) can do what he wants.." vibe coupled with "..this is what he (les) should do.." comments in these 2 threads.
HUH? WTF? Very confusing to me.

We are blessed folks...anything else is just icing on non sport cake.

"Tellin it like is since 1967"

 
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Geoff Litwack
(Login symbebekos)
98.149.112.241

Re: The Wrapper

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May 20 2011, 5:18 PM 

Charley - at the risk of making too much of this...

- You are correct that I can't make assurances beyond my own behavior, and certainly, once things are digital, they have a tendency to circulate.

- With the Radiohead example I only meant "something of broad popular interest," not to imply that music had a greater claim to protection under copyright law or something like that. A theoretical DVD of Wrapper back issues would be appealing to, I don't know, five hundred people? Almost all of whom would either know Les personally or by reputation. Maybe that relationship wouldn't stop the most hardened pirate, but you'd have to be pretty cold to look someone in the eye, so to speak, and steal from them.

- You say: "Geoff, you are a straight arrow,great non sporter and contributor here. We agree on some points. But I just don't get this whole ".. He(les) can do what he wants.." vibe coupled with "..this is what he (les) should do.." comments in these 2 threads.
HUH? WTF? Very confusing to me." I certainly don't mean to insinuate that Les should or must do anything with his property, and I apologize if that's how my comments came off. I merely wanted to point out a possible opportunity given a) Jerry's apparent willingness to scan and b) an audience that would be willing to pay for an archive of back issues. That's it. I think the back and forth on this just reflects how GREAT The Wrapper is and how much Les' work is valued.

 
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