Hopefully some of our UK members can answer a question for me. I buy regularly from sellers in the UK, most have reasonable shipping charges. However, two large (I assume they are large sellers - hux777 and murraycards51) have shipping charges at $12.00 per auction. With the rate of exchange at about $1.60, that makes shipping to be over $19.00 US. Now I'll admit they have a lot of interesting items for auction, but I don't get it. I know they can charge whatever they want and I know I don't have to bid (which I don't usually), but why can most sellers charge $5.00 and under for shipping and these two have to charge $12.00. OK UK members any ideas or comments.

Jeff , surely $12 is $12 no matter what exchange rate is in operation .

Hux & Murrays (both the same company) ship it Signed For International so they and the buyer are covered in case it goes missing .
$12 is about the true cost if you take into consideration what the Americans call handling charge , the envelope plus the shipping charge .

On low value items they'll ship tothe US for $4 .

Maybe Darren will see the post and respond himself .

ps...other sellers don't ship Signed For they just pop it in an envelope and post .

We dont have a "quid" sign on our keyboards.

fair enough Scooper but they charge US$12 to post so surely that's US $12 .

I can feel Jeffs pain as I encounter similar from US sellers wanting me to pay up to $34 per transaction .

Wheres that Jerry Hrechka , ain't seen him about for yonks .

Jeff , I just asked the wife who works for the Post Office UK and she stated that standard International Signed For insures products up to £50/$75 and it cost a further $4 to take the insurance up to $500 .

Hope this helps .

I think he was trying to say 12 quid

Jerry isn't answering his e-mails. I have messaged him on FB and had no reply.

No response from Mr H , gosh , . I hope all is well .

it has been 6 months since I spoke to him

Mark and Tony

I have sent emails to both of those (hux and murray). Hux is gone for the weekend and murray did say anything but if I read correctly they are the same. When I pay to UK, I pay the selling cost plus shipping which is then convert to US dollars. Mark I don't under stand why you say 12.00 GBP shipping is 12.00 US shipping.

They are shipping insured to protect themselves, not me. Paypal is suppose to protect me with a refund for items lost or not shipped. So the gist of it is, I paying so if the item is lost they can get a refund.

Jeff , the shipping varies depending on value of the item but I've seen listings from the companies you mention and the rate to the US is $16 ...this was for an item worth $600 .

..for most of their low value items the shipping rate to the US is US $12 not 12 UK pounds .

Jeff ,

Mark, you are right, I stand corrected, hux's charges are in US funds.

case closed now where is Jerry?

no probs Jeff .
I'll edit my posts out .

My offer still stands on UK shipping etc ...just drop me a mail if you encounter UK shipping only .

exactly Tony ....calling Mr H , calling Mr H ....

same here Tony , I dropped him a Christams e-mail without a response (very unusual for Jerry as he always has something to say) ....

others have also mentioned to me his lack of contact ..

My understanding is that paypal does offer free insurance if sent in the USA to a US address with a tracking number (if sent w/in 7 days of payment). However, the same does not hold true with overseas purchases. The buyer can get his money back, but the seller is screwed. That's one of the reasons a lot of sellers no longer offer overseas bidders.

Kurt you made my point in that the buyer can get a refund from paypal, but the seller is screwed. So hux is basically making the buyer pay for his insurance so he is protected. I thought according to ebay, sellers are not suppose to make buyer pay for insurance to protect themselves. Of course I could be mistake again.

To be protected a seller as to use a tracking number or eBay and Paypal will side with the buyer, eBay requires a electronic form of payment (so they can reimburse the buyer on a simple INR from the buyer).

Problem is using a tracking number is expensive, at least it is here in Canada.

If eBay is telling the seller he cannot charge extra for the tracking number than the playing field is very unfair for the seller. If you are selling on eBay you know it is no matter what.

I sell low value items not worth using tracking if I sell something valuable enough I will use tracking and I will charge for it.

There is a risk of buying or selling online and I do not see why the seller would have to take all the risk.

Sellers cannot leave negative feedback for bad (or questionable) buyers, we are paying the fees for listing, packaging and postage and all a buyer as to do get his money back is claim he never received the item.

Luckily the majority of people are honest (impatient but honest) and as usual it is the few bad one that spoiled the sauce for everyone.

Aaah! feel good now

If sellers can no longer leave negative feedback for buyers (in addition to be left out in the cold on refunds), than sellers are certainly being screwed every which way that there is. (We have no way of checking to see which overseas buyers have a history of abuse.) I hate to see a good service ruined by bean counters who just look at the cheapest short term solution (eBay and paypal passing on all the fees and business costs to the sellers). They forget sellers are half of their winning formula.

Hux or murraycards aren't making you pay for insurance , they ship their packages International Signed For ,theres a slight difference .

Has anyone out there got the balls to say that they would ship a $600 item to a buyer without tracking or insurance ?

Hi Mark,
It isn't the $600 items that we are worried about. Take a look at their ebay store and even a $15 card has a $10 shipping charge. I emailed Murrays a couple of weeks ago and their response was basically, that is what we charge, deal with it.

I can mail a single card to England as a non-machinable letter for $2.12 and as a parcel for $3.78. Does it really cost more than that to mail from England to the US? I don't think so.

Rick

Mark I'm not talking about shipping a $600.00 item. First off I would insure the item whether buyer or seller for an item at that amount. I'm talking about paying $20.00 for an item and $10.00 shipping. And yes I'm paying for insurance because that is what the seller want to be able to show paypal if I don't receive the item. Now if the seller wants proof that he shipped the item, the least he could do is split the increased shipping with the buyer.

And let me state here right, now I have always received my items from hux777!!!

I feel they are taking advantage of shipping costs, I ship to the UK quite a bit and only charge $5.00 to $6.00 for Standard Int'l Shipping. Package always gets there and I have never had a problem. Just a little info for you. Hope this helps.

Peter Gilleeny

I don't like it when sellers charge big shipping fees, but it only really bugs me when I think they are charging "extra" and a pocketing the difference. If they are paying it out in additional tracking, that's different, especially if they are doing it because they've been burned by overseas buyers and it's either the added tracking, or no more overseas business. I like buying cards overseas and hope they don't cut us off completely. I also like selling to overseas buyers, so this issues is especially relevant to me.

I try to keep my shipping costs down as low as possible when sending stuff to Europe, and USPS recently jumped the rates on overseas mail, so that $4 is about as cheap as it gets for a set, and a box is $18-- without tracking. If I've never dealt with the person before and don't know anyone who has, there's a good chance I'll refund their overseas order rather than risk sending it. That being said, they've all made good so far, although I did have an American in LA rip me off for just $45-- and I'll never do business with HIM again. (What a jerk!)

Overall, we're lucky so many people are honest. But it's a real shame when individuals spoil it for everyone.

The way eBay/Paypal has their hands in sellers' accounts now, they are basically forcing sellers to self-insure every package they ship, whether they like it or not. If a buyer doesn't receive the package, they get their money back. If the buyer SAYS they didn't receive the package, they get their money back. If the item is damaged, they can get their money back. If they change their mind, they can get their money back (okay, on that last one, they might have to fib, but that doesn't stop some). And every time they get their money back, it's ALL their money, no matter how much you laid out to ship the thing to them.

When eBay first started disallowing an itemized option for adding insurance to packages being shipped, they specifically stated to sellers that if they still wanted to charge for insurance, they could roll it into their total shipping cost, but could not list it as an optional line item. For a while, they would even boot listings if you said anywhere in your description that insurance was optional as an extra charge.

So that's insurance. Paypal's "seller protection" is a little different than insurance, but it does guarantee that if the seller can prove that the item was delivered (i.e. show tracking information that shows it was delivered) and a buyer claims it wasn't, they won't take the money out of your account for the refund. As others have said, domestic tracking within one's own country is typically very cheap, especially if you are printing the postage at home, so it's worth it to have that peace of mind that an unscrupulous buyer won't be able to receive the goods, claim they didn't, and get their money back.

The biggest problem that I have is when it comes to international shipping. On international shipments, eBay/Paypal requires that, to be covered by their "seller protection," the seller has to show tracking information all the way to the point of delivery. I don't know how it works in other countries, but when you're shipping from the U.S., there simply isn't a cheap way to do that. The only way that I know of to do it with standard USPS mail is to ship the package "Registered Mail" which adds $14-something onto the shipping total, whatever it was normally. I have yet to have a Registered Mail package either get lost or claim to be "not delivered," so I can't even say with 100% certainty that eBay/Paypal would accept that for their required proof. Presumably, Fed-Ex or UPS would also provide acceptable tracking, but both are also expensive for international, and I've never used them.

So, all of that said, what is a seller to do? If you've been burned, particularly on an expensive shipment, you can either refuse to ship international again, or you can require that all buyers pay for expensive international tracking (in which case, if you're selling lower-value items, you'll never ship international again anyway). Myself, I grumble about eBay and their ridiculous self-serving rules, post about it on a message board now and again, and continue to ship international without tracking unless the item value is high. I've gotten burned a few times, but not so many that I would have just tossed all the other international sales out the window to avoid them. At the same time though, I realize that's my choice to operate that way, and I don't malign other sellers who choose not to take that risk. Or, if they are clearly rolling the added cost of tracking into their shipping fees, take that into account when bidding/buying.

The most unfortunate thing to me is that eBay ever disallowed the insurance line item in the first place. It was just one of the first steps in fostering a "no responsibility" mindset among buyers and one of many knots they have used to tie sellers' hands. To paraphrase the many explanatory e-mails they have sent over the years, "too many choices confuse buyers," and "having optional insurance makes buyers think something could go wrong," so rather than allow buyers to decide for themselves whether they want to roll the dice with the postal system, they disallow the option altogether.

Okay, it's nearly 2:30 AM here now. Time to climb down off the soap box and into bed...

Jeff , International Signed For covers your $20 card without extra insurance so your paying for the International Signed For service not Insurance .
As previously shown and removed after you saw them and stood corrected there are lots of $20 cards from both sellers that charge $4 ,$5 shipping .

It's more like a lets slag HUX/Murraycards off witch hunt than a general discussion on e-bay UK shipping charges .

$10(with built in insurance up to $50 and tracked) to get something across a large pond that could be 3000 miles away in 10 days or less ...that's not bad going .

Hi Rick ,

I've had my gripes with HUX/Murraycards in the past concerning shipping to the UK and sent an e-mail to the ' manager ' with my concerns .

I received a response similar to yours but with a break down of how the cost is made up , all of the HUX/Murraycards are sent Signed For witin the UK so it's not just the US of A customers that have to pay for the service .

It's the way of the e-bay world I guess and until I experiene having a turnaround of over 1500 cards a month and the best way to cover my arse and keep the customers happy 'I too will have to live with it '

Mark

ps ...I'm sure(and hope)Darren will respond as I'll send them a link to this page .

Hey Mark, do they offer a cheap international "signed for" service if we're sending stuff out of the US? (Like to the UK or Aussyland?) If so, what does it cost?

Thanks for sharing the info.

Hi Kurt , I believe that all of the cards shipped from HUX/Murraycards are posted from London UK .

I live in the UK and it costs me approx $4/5 per transaction , all packages are sent Signed For and have a built in insurance covered by the Post Office up to $60 .
If the package weighs more I pay more ....I recently paid $4 to have a paper bag shipped

Mark I know I didn't pay for insurance in the truer sense of the word; but I paid so that hux could prove he mailed the item if that was needed, and that was insurance for him. My problem with this is why does the buyer have to pay the whole price in higher shipping to cover the seller; the least he could do is split the cost.

As far as high priced item, only a fool would ship without insurance; to protect both the seller and buyer. But that being said, paying $10.00 shipping for a $20.00 item is high, in my opinion.

Now I have bought from hux before and will continue to bid on some of his auction; just not as many because of the high shipping. I hope that this discussion does not get me blocked by hux/murray from bidding on his auctions.

Hi Jeff , I surely hope that no blocking takes place as theres nothing wrong in discussion .

Jeff , the Post Office charges HUX/Murraycards approx $8 for the Signed For service plus you have to take into consideration the weight of the package as that adds extra cost .

HUX/Murraycards are playing by e-bay rules to cover themselves against loss , fraud etc , surely any sane person who runs a business would do the same if shipping overseas to unknown persons .

I don't know of any seller be they on e-bay or not that splits the cost , do Amazon , do any sellers split the cost of what the Post Office charges them ?

"My problem with this is why does the buyer have to pay the whole price in higher shipping to cover the seller"

Because the buyer is in the unique position of having the seller by the cojones. If anything at all goes wrong with that shipment, or the buyer CLAIMS something went wrong with the shipment, the seller will lose the cost of the item AND the cost of the shipping. If the seller has a problem with the buyer, and has not added tracking, insurance, etc., they are out of luck. The most drastic thing they can do is ban that buyer from bidding on their items, but they will never see their money or the item on that transaction again. If there was something closer to a 50/50 split of liability, I could see wanting to split the cost 50/50, but that's not the case.

"As far as high priced item, only a fool would ship without insurance; to protect both the seller and buyer. But that being said, paying $10.00 shipping for a $20.00 item is high, in my opinion."

The cost of shipping is largely independent of the cost of the item. I have this argument with buyers all the time, and it's why I don't sell furniture and lead bars on eBay. It doesn't matter how much you paid for your lead bar. It costs me a fixed amount to get it to you, and the shipping cost to your location is prominently displayed at the top of the page. If you agree to buy the item, you agree to pay that shipping amount.

"I don't know of any seller be they on e-bay or not that splits the cost"

There are plenty of them that do, or who offer "free shipping," but they do so either as a promotional tool, out of peer pressure, or out of ignorance. Depending on how you're selling, if it's Fixed Price, you can roll the shipping cost into your item price and show "free shipping" and come out the same, except that the buyer has no idea how much you're figuring for shipping. Ebay would actually prefer that you do it this way, and I'm pretty sure that the only reason they have not mandated this across the board is that not everyone sells things as "fixed price" listings. If they did mandate free shipping, it would be the death of low-starting-price auctions. As it is, many sellers LIKE to hide the shipping costs in the item cost because eBay gives them a boost in search rangings for doing so, and they can figure whatever they want for the shipping with no arguments from buyers. Then there are the newbie sellers who thump their chests and proudly proclaim that they only charge the exact postage costs, without anything added for ridiculous expenses like packing materials. These are typically either new sellers, someone looking to dump their wares as quick as possible, or those who only list on eBay on rare occasions. They haven't figured out yet that there are other expenses involved with shipping than the postage itself and the box they got from the grocery store with wadded up newspaper in it. If they stick around longer and continue selling, they change their tune once reality sets in, but buyers are more than happy to take advantage of their generosity in the meantime.

"do Amazon , do any sellers split the cost of what the Post Office charges them"

Amazon does not in the strictest sense as they have a flat shipping price on most media. This may result in some de facto splitting of cost if the item is heavy and actually costs more than the flat rate to ship, but it's not a stated policy.

at the end of the day it's best to buy from who you feel comfortable in dealing with .

and for me that's all I have to say on this subject .

Fin (for me anyway) .

The required tracking is a pain for cheap items for sure. Basically, it means you MUST go to the post office to send it (unless you do it from home and pay the $5 min. priority fees). That means you get to wait in line for 20 minutes while some civil service person takes a break during the middle of lunch hour. When it's a $2 or $3 card, it just isn't worth it. I used to offer to seller a promise if it was lost, I wouldn't expect proof it was sent or a refund (in exchange for just sending it with a regular 44 cent stamp). But when eBay required all transactions be paid for with Paypal (which they also own and profit from), it made it impossible to pay via check. So sellers were on the hook to require tracking via Paypal whether or not I promised it wasn't needed for my card.

That being said, it is unrealistic to expect the seller to split the cost of shipping. (One might as well expect them to pay half the sales tax, too.) After all, why should overseas buyers cut into a seller's profit any more than a domestic buyer? That sort of thing would really discourage them from offering the item overseas. The one exception to splitting postage is if you have to return the item because you don't like the condition or whatever. In that case, yes, the postage should be split. The buyer pays to return it, the seller refunds the full purchase amount (including the outbound shipping) but not the extra return postage. They both take an equal hit. You will notice eBay now requires the seller to list the fact when the item is first listed, so both parties know ahead of time what the expectation is in the event of a dispute. I think it is the very last thing the seller checks off before listing the item.

@Jeff - I'm pretty sure most buyers figure in the ship cost when deciding what their max bid is on an item. If Hux/Murray charged $5 shipping it's quite possible the high bid would have been $25 instead of $20. I would suggest that in an auction format, the seller is actually paying the ship cost even when the buyer is supposed to be. Is my reasoning wrong here?

@Lance - Have you ever been successful on a PayPal claim using Registered mail? My understanding is the tracking has to be electronic/online proof of delivery and Registered is not online. Only Express and Priority to certain countries. Best bet for cards to Europe might be Priority Small Flat Rate Box or Envelope to qualify.

Al, as I said above, I have never had the two coincide (I shipped Registered Mail and there was a dispute), so as I said, I can't say with 100% certainty that the proof that Registered Mail provides will suffice in a Paypal dispute case.

I can say with 100% certainty that the tracking that simple Priority Mail International provides will NOT suffice. The key is that the tracking has to show PROOF OF DELIVERY, not just proof that you shipped the package. In most instances, Priority will track only as far as Miami or New York, at which point it leaves the country and no further tracking updates are registered. Same goes for 1st Class, which you can actually track using the bar-coded customs label, but again, only as far as the border. The few times that I have shipped Registered Mail, the tracking actually did show date and time of delivery in the shipped-to country (off the top of my head, Japan, Ireland, UK and Australia worked), which is where my other disputes stalled out.

The first thing eBay/Paypal will ask for in the case of a dispute/claim is tracking that shows proof of delivery. If you don't have that, it doesn't matter how rational your argument is otherwise, they'll decide in favor of the buyer and close the case. You can appeal, but the first thing they will do is ask if you have proof of delivery. If you don't, they will close the appeal.

One recent case that I had went something like this: A buyer in the UK purchased a toy for her nephew's birthday. Less than a week after the item shipped, she e-mails me asking where it is. Her grasp of the English language is tenuous at best, but I explained as concisely as I could that she needed to wait a reasonable amount of time for delivery. She immediately asks for tracking information and complains that the birthday is soon and she needs it right away. I give her the number on the customs form which basically just shows proof of shipment and tracks the package as far as Miami, and explain to her that there is no possible way the item could have reached her yet and again ask that she be patient. She files a claim with eBay UK, and eBay immediately takes the money out of my Paypal account associated with the sale to hold it until we resolve things. I e-mail back and forth with her through the dispute console a number of times, and she finally just stops responding. At this point, Paypal is also still holding the money, so I figured she finally received the item, and quit pursuing the matter. The thing is, she didn't drop the claim. So it sits there unresolved for over a month, and there is nothing I can do to force her to drop the claim. I figured it would just time out eventually after she didn't respond (which I believe is the case with claims on domestic shipments), but it didn't. So I "escalated" the claim and asked that eBay give a final ruling, explaining to them why I thought she had received the item and just stopped communicating. First thing they did was look at the tracking, which only went as far as Miami, and ruled in the buyer's favor because I couldn't show proof of shipment. Didn't matter that the buyer hadn't followed up on her claim in over a month, had stopped communicating, or that I, the seller, was the one that had asked for the final ruling. The buyer got an unexpected little bonus in the form of a Paypal refund over a month after she stopped asking for it.

Like I said, if I had shipped the item Registered Mail (in which case the postage would have been more than the item cost), I don't know if I would have won the case, or if eBay would have tripped me up with some additional hoop to jump through beyond that one. Based on what they were telling me though, the tracking that Registered Mail would have provided (showing proof of delivery when you put the Registered Mail bar-coded number into the tracking field on the USPS website) should have satisfied their requirement for me to be covered under the Seller Protection policy.

Regarding your suggestion that shipping price affects bid prices, I can say from experience that there is very little appreciable difference between offering an auction item with free shipping versus offering the same item with "reasonable" shipping. Slightly-higher-than-average shipping costs will get you more low star scores on your shipping cost feedback from non-repeat customers. It's only when your shipping fees are "outrageous" that it seems to affect the bid prices. The reality is, it is difficult to get the average buyer to even read a two-line description of the item (most just look at the main photo and read the title), let alone check the shipping cost and make a reasoned adjustment to their bid based on that. Most just bid, win, pay, and never even look at shipping options. I used to wonder why so many people opted for the more expensive Priority shipping option on small/light items until I realized that I had Priority listed as the default on those. Once I changed the default to 1st Class, most "opted" for 1st Class, making it pretty clear that they were just not paying attention to their shipping options at all.

On Fixed Price items with Best Offer, most offers with start at about 50% or less of your list price, regardless of how reasonable your asking price is. Second most popular offer does seem to be your asking price minus your shipping price. From my experience, listing the same item with Free Shipping doesn't seem to draw higher offers (most still start at 50%) or more non-haggling outright buys. I list pretty much all of my Fixed Price items with the Best Offer feature enabled, so I don't know how that would vary if you did not accept offers.

JEFF: You are a nice guy,and net54 member in good standing HOWEVER...Ahem!..Eh.. You don't get it my friend.
I sell on ebay from time to time..mostly low dollar stuff..(like lance..I normally don't use Ebay for Large Items, heavy items or expensive items)( there are better venues)

CLAUDE gets it!, I quote from above :
"If eBay is telling the seller he cannot charge extra for the tracking number than the playing field is very unfair for the seller. If you are selling on eBay you know it is no matter what.

I sell low value items not worth using tracking if I sell something valuable enough I will use tracking and I will charge for it.

There is a risk of buying or selling online and I do not see why the seller would have to take all the risk.

Sellers cannot leave negative feedback for bad (or questionable) buyers, we are paying the fees for listing, packaging and postage and all a buyer as to do get his money back is claim he never received the item.

Luckily the majority of people are honest (impatient but honest) and as usual it is the few bad one that spoiled the sauce for everyone.

Aaah! feel good now"

( Claude I feel better too!)

I have bought from Hux/Murrays and Murrays before Darren & co. resurected them. Yes, It stinks to see a 5 to 10 dollar card and see $10.00 to $12.00 shipping. In this scenario ..Well, Hux Sux. That said,There are a lot of Sucky sellers on fleabay , so whats new.. move on
However,If you are buying card/cards or partial set, full set from them OR anyone..and you are in the 50.00 to 300.00 range..Who cares about 10 or 14 bucks? I Completely understand why they do as they do. Frankly , as a buyer.. I'm glad there is some sort of protection for my purchases.

As Mark points out...Who in the world is going to send $600.00 worth of cards uninsured? ( there are idiots on ebay who do...but there also idiots who smoke while putting gas in the car)

Kurt, Lance and Others. DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!

I've been round and round with Paypal, Ebay... EBAY/PAYPAL always..Always...In every Case...In my Years of experience...since the begining...WILL FAVOR THE BUYER. I have been burnt enough ..I still have the scars.
In a perfect world (or fantasy world) there would be 1 person in charge of these crooked operations..I would invite them to take a drink with me and there are special places I could take them to...where they would never be found,seen again. Problem solved.
( well, thats unGodly and not going to happen) (thanks for letting me indulge myself )

I take a loss on shipping all of the time, because I care about the junk I sell. Even if the buyer sees no reason to protect it. I pony up the funds.

RICK: You don't get it either...C'mon man..? Really? Seriously? You sell and don't understand? (scratches head)
You must be living at the foot of the Cross my brother if you have never been screwed, scammed or other because you are willing to ship overseas for 4 or 5 bucks?
WOW! Good on you brother..
Are you the same guy that leaves his car unlocked? His house unlocked? His tools, mower, tractor unlocked, with keys in them? AND you have never had anything go missing?
Are you that guy that leave his car running at a C-store on the bad side of town? Are you the person that tells everybody you are going out of town?
Really Man, Please tell me that if I buy a valuble card from you ..you'll just stick it in a reg mailer and hope it gets to me? C'mon ( truly puzzled you don't understand the cost of insuring things..ESPECIALLY going to and coming from Overseas)(rubs face)(takes deep breath)

I stopped selling internationally for over a year because of all the added cost, hassle and my Free card giveaway became known in certian foreign lands. I can hear them now: " This yank will refund your money and you get to keep cards" ..I have MANY friends all over the globe and still take care of them...but its funny since I started selling internationally again BY PRIORITY with EXTRA INSURANCE Only... I hardly Get any bids from NEW overseas people.
Huh? Wonder why that is?

A stated above...A FEW have ruined it for many...as usual. Sad.

My ol bud Todd R. Has stopped shipping internationally ..wonder why?

I know we have many from outside the states here on the board. MY PROMISE TO YOU: Yes, you will pay more (or I'll help out) and your card(s) WILL BE DELIVERED , Safely Packed and and in tip top shape. IT will cost more..But The cards, Me and YOU are worth it...Don't you agree?

I see many Singles and later (more modern) cards all over ebays different sites..But can't pull the trigger on 8.00 to 20.00 shipping on a 5 dollar card.. BUT I GET IT.

Why don't you folks?


As for LANCE: He is spot on as well...this crap just makes you want to stop shipping internationally alltogether.

If you folks have a problem with my fees, my selling,
TAKE IT UP WITH THE SOCIALIST, CROOKED GANG of Thugs in Comunist Cali.

I could go on and on and on...I'd rather get onto something positive...so I will shut hole. (smile)

Do you know the way to san jose?


" Tellin it like it is and shown in the love since 1960"

Lance - I've been selling on eBay (not cards) for more than ten years so I know exactly where you're coming from. As Claude writes, most average buyers have no clue what selling is like and how much it has changed for the worse since eBay was launched. Your 1st paragraph above sums it up, and you can add the routine extortion attempts for partial refunds for every BS reason imaginable, and a blanket no-questions-asked 45-day return policy if you take PayPal no matter what you state it to be. I laugh at these sellers who say "Sales are Final".

The biggest pain is that eBay/Paypal seem to go out of their way to hide what are acceptable ways to ship. The only source for accurate info is other sellers, that's why I asked about Registered. Does the tracking info list specifics or just DELIVERED CANADA for example?

I had a lost package shipped Priority and insured with eBay's ShipCover paid out. The buyer filing a non-received claim through PayPal was sufficient proof the package was lost (tracking was therefore moot) and they paid me the day after filing a claim which took less than a minute. Was still out $35 because I didn't realize postage cost wasn't added to the payout. ShipCover is only $1.23/$100 but you can't add it to 1st Class International. I rarely send anything overseas that's not insured any more.

Al, here are a few examples of packages shipped international within the last month or so, all of which have been delivered (confirmed by the buyer's feedback). Feel free to plug any of the tracking numbers into usps.com to see what kind of results come up. It's much easier to show examples than to try and describe:

1st Class Airmail to Canada
LJ932674652US (from customs form)

Priority Flat-Rate Mailer to UK
LJ923261216US (from customs form)

1st Class Airmail to Japan
LJ929631008US (from customs form)

1st Class Registered Mail to Japan
LC527383072US (from customs form)
RR278196610US (Registered number)
Both numbers bring up the same info for this package. Note that the tracking doesn't stop in Miami with this one as it did for the above package to Japan.

Just got this in my email..

"Dear Sir ,
your uninsured package valued at $500 has been shipped from the UK
to your home in the US of A .

We didn't use tracking so when it doesn't arrive please put in a claim to pay pal who will
then reimburse your money ....they're good to you aren't they ...we trust them 100% .
we hope you secretly enjoy your cards that never arrived ..

A pleasure doing business with you and we look forward to adding to your card collection
whilst losing all our money and shipping costs .

A Mug .
the someplace somewhere trading company "


I thought it cheeky and funny.
" Showin the love since 1961 "

I once sent a box of Fantastic Odd Rods with "signature required receipt", which not only provided tracking, but has the signature of the person who got it. The winner got it, signed for it, but then told Paypal their account had been hacked. A month later, Paypal deducted several hundred dollars from my account. I showed them the tracking from the Signature Required receipt I had, but they said that didn't count. It has to be the OTHER type of tracking.

That's when it became obvious to me they were hiding behind technicalities or anything else they could do to avoid paying the claim. (Not that they should have paid anything-- they should have emailed the buyer "You signed for it-- either return the item or expect the money not to be refunded.") Instead, I was left to my own devices and with a "sorry charlie" attitude from eBay/ Palpal.

So besides learning that eBay/Palpal are not interested in what's best for their sellers, but rather, what's easiest and most profitable to the corporation, what else have we learned? Is the only way to protect oneself from being abused by overseas buyers to demand exorbitant international insurance on all items? Or is there a cheaper international tracking that Paypal will accept that add too much to the already very high cost of sending stuff overseas? (Someone mentioned "ShipCover" -- is that something the USPS offers?)

Kurt,

FWIW I've heard that same response with regard to signature confirmation from eBay/Paypal in the past. I had a loooong "chat" with one of their reps (which is 1 step above chatting with my dishwasher in terms of reasoned responses) in which I kept asking them over and over what they suggested I use for tracking for international shipments that would satisfy their requirement. They kept coming back to it had to be some form that was 1) trackable online (as in, they can plug in the tracking number and see the results) and 2) showed "DELIVERED" or some equivalent wording. Proof of shipment wasn't good enough, and for whatever reason, signature confirmation wasn't good enough either unless it also had some kind of online tracking.

I pressed them for a reason that online tracking was more acceptable than signature confirmation, and the response they gave (which I think they made up on the spot, as I was clearly going outside the area covered by their standard rote responses at this point) was that there was no way to prove that it was actually the buyer who signed for the package (i.e. it could have been an imposter waiting in the buyer's house to intercept their mail?) That was a pretty frustrating conversation, and as I said, not too productive in getting at what eBay/Paypal's official stance is as to what tracking methods will satisfy their requirements.

I did ask them point blank: what tracking method can I use to satisfy your requirements. The response was not to give me a specific shipper or tracking method, but to read back to me "it has to be trackable online and show that it was actually delivered."

And mind you, this all has to do with tracking in order to be covered under their Seller Protection plan, which is not the same thing as insurance. If you use that tracking and the package really is lost, they will still refund the buyer's money and you would have to seek reimbursement from whatever entity sold you the insurance. On the other hand, just insuring a package doesn't protect you from a buyer who successfully receives the package but then files a fraudulent claim with Paypal knowing that you don't have the tracking information necessary to defend yourself.

I'm not familiar with the ShipCover option that Al mentioned previously, but if that is administered by eBay as well and not some third party, that may be the only way to ensure they don't pass the blame off on someone else. If it's lost, eBay pays out on the insurance. If it's delivered and the buyer claims it's lost, eBay either denys the claim based on the tracking or believes the claim and pays out on the insurance. And if it's delivered and no complaints are filed, you get to keep the money you were paid in the first place (I hate how that sounds like it's some kind of privelege rather than being HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN).

I agree they do charge a lot ,but if you buy more than 1 item from them its free for every other item a week ago I bought 6 cards from hux and he only charged $12 and they deal with american dollar before the new owner ship at murray they use to kill us with the british pounds...

Having started this I have one more question. What if the seller did not accept paypal; checks or money orders only. Once you get paid ebay can't take it back from you. I know you have yo have a paypal account, but do ebay rules say you have to accept paypal payments. Not taking paypal would also reduce to money you lose from each transaction. Also, if you could prove you shipment with a signature of delivery confirmation maybe postage could be lower.

And Charley you are not the 1st and won't be the last to say I don't get it. My daughters have been saying that for years; except they would say - "Dad, you don't understand."

Jeff, the short answer is: to sell on eBay nowadays, you HAVE TO accept Paypal as a payment method. No way around it, and if you try to say you don't accept Paypal in your description, your listing will get pulled (or not allowed to upload in the first place).

From the seller's standpoint, what this means is an almost-guaranteed added fee from Paypal. You can still accept other forms of payment, you just can't talk about it in your listing or explicitly require something other than Paypal. I put a simple statement in my payment instructions section that says, "If you need to mail your payment, my mailing address is:" I did a back-calculation when doing my taxes last year, and the total non-Paypal payments that I received was between 1-2% of my total sales. There are occasionally savvy buyers who will negotiate a lower price for the item by bypassing the eBay and Paypal fees and paying you directly for it, but I have found that if you as a seller suggest that they should just send a check or money order, most buyers will pucker up and get nervous about the deal unless they already know you from previous dealings.

From the buyer's standpoint, the only reason to not use Paypal is if you just don't trust Paypal. Which is certainly a valid concern, but one which most buyers overlook in order to have the convenience and added security of paying with Paypal. As a buyer, you really can't beat the "if anything goes wrong, or if you SAY anything went wrong, we'll have your money back to you lickity-split" guarantee. And unless you can negotiate a lower price for going "outside the system," there really isn't any financial incentive to not using Paypal. (At least, until they start imposing a national sales tax on internet sales, that is).