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Report from the national?

July 29 2017 at 11:29 AM
Richard L.  (Login nsaddict)

Just curious how the non-sport sector is represented at the big show? Member pickups, what's hot? What's pricey? If anyone crosses paths with a decent N76 Lincoln plmk. Any other members have a "keep an eye out" for those in attendance?

This message has been edited by nsaddict on Jul 29, 2017 11:32 AM

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(Login Marslife)

National 2017

July 30 2017, 12:52 PM 

Just got back from Chicago, luckily driving distance for me! as usual had a BLAST!

I stopped at all the non sports booths for visits, rooted thru Basball dealers junk boxes for non sports, found a bunch of cards needed for my T card master sets. Major score with a sweet T227 Blank Back variation, probably the Gem of my 4 days of hunting.

I did score a huge lot of Silks, not that I know much about them, but couldnt pass up a large bag full for $20!!

yes, I paid more than I usually would on the Bay, but had fun searching, finding, dickering and chatting with dealers, collectors and owners of auction houses. Was awesome to hold $20,000 cards in your hand and dream...

some of the cards are just awe inspiring, rare, perfect condition... NICE.

was fun to peruse the auction house displays with museum quality artifacts. Place was packed with kids and younger folks at the shiny stuff pack ripping areas. Autographs always seem to be big there and lots of shiny cards with signatures available.

Ran into Marty and Tom. Marty was lamenting at the lack of non sports cards available, I told him he needed to "broaded" his horizons into other areas, and I think I even saw him holding, maybe even buying a baseball card ???
(women of baseball). Went to my first Net54 dinner, met some of the wacky baseball guys, Leon had some great speakers and free food and beer! Ran into our fearless leader Tom at the dinner and got to talk cards with him for a bit, always a pleasure!

the floor was a bit smaller this year as others have noted, but overall still packed every day. Still had a blast, caught a few nice cards, one treasure and the yearning to go back again! Cant wait for Cleveland next year, even closer for me next year.

Some photos of the venue and some pickups below.



[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

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Located Marty! actually looking at a BBall card - the horror!

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

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[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

score of the week! huge lot of SILKS for $20 - havent gone thru them all mostly flags...

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

This message has been edited by Marslife on Jul 30, 2017 1:29 PM

Alan R. Moon
(Login AlanRM)


July 30 2017, 2:05 PM 

Thanks Cliff. Great pics, especially the one of the show floor from above. Glad to hear you had such a great time.

Would love to read more reports.



mr moses
(Login 1880snonsports)

thanks cliff!

July 30 2017, 4:15 PM 

I want to go - I don't want to go - I want to go - and on and on. Love the pic of Marty - ty - but where's his WIFE? happy.gif No pix. of my friend g
Glenn. Hopefully Jerry Spillman will have taken numerous pix. No early report from Tom no matter how brief is worrisome. He either scored so muchhhhhhhhhhh or?


Frank Evanov
(Login eagle147)

National stuff

July 31 2017, 12:28 AM 

I had a good show:

[linked image]

[linked image]

George probably still had teeth when he signed this in 1750!

[linked image]
(Premier Login autograf)


July 31 2017, 2:32 PM 

Didn't get many photos of the National this year for some reason. I found nonsports to be pretty scant out there. Bob Marcy was there and another guy focusing more on 1950's nonsports but other than that and just a few odds and ends here, it was pretty scarce. I picked up (or think I am) an N224 Kinney Military set that I'll post more about when the deal is finalized. Not much else in the nonsports realm. A few nice BB lots here and there.

Of course, saw Marty Krim and hung out with him some. Also saw Cliff and Tom Ryan who collects the N224 set heavily in graded form.

Always good to see everyone when going to a National. Next year is in Cleveland and then maybe Atlantic City? Not 100% sure but I think Baltimore was being mentioned for down the road again. Had a good time in Baltimore as it was easy access via flight/rail and all the amenities were pretty well contained in that Harbor area. Would enjoy that again. Atlantic City isn't my favorite destination although we had a good time there last year on a long road trip through Niagara Falls and Cooperstown to arrive in Atlantic City. Stay tuned..........

Jim VB
(Login JimVB)

Re: Report from the national?

July 31 2017, 3:03 PM 

My understanding of the schedule is:

2018 - Cleveland
2019 - Chicago
2020 - Atlantic City

2021 and beyond - TBA

Jim VB
(Login JimVB)

Re: Report from the national?

July 31 2017, 3:09 PM 


I saw Tom on the Tuesday and then not again until Saturday.

I saw Marty Krim, and Debby, in the Convention Center Lobby early in the week, and then not again all week.

I saw Dave Lemon while I was in mid-discussion with someone else and then was never able to find him again all week.

I saw Adam Warshaw and Frank Evanov multiple times, but those were always more Baseball related.

I also saw Steve Sabow was there with his usual nice assortment.

I agree with Tom. The amount of Non-Sport Cards there was pretty thin. If Bob Marcy wasn't there it would have been awful!

This message has been edited by JimVB on Jul 31, 2017 3:11 PM

(Login 030190)


July 31 2017, 5:08 PM 

Debby and I had a fine time at the National..

I had a great time, if you do not include purchasing cards..

My daughter lives in Chicago so we had dinners with her and that was nice..

Cliff said that I was LAMENTING about the lack of non-sport cards - I really like Cliff but this is untrue..(you know, Fake News)..

I was WHINING about the lack of non-sport cards..

I saw Bob and Brian Marcy and wasn’t it great to have Bob back at a National !!

The Knouse family are all great people and it is always nice to see them AND I bought a few cards from young Terry..

Jim VB is always a pleasure to be around..

I bumped into Tom Hall at Bob Marcy’s booth (looking at high grade N224 cards, of course)..

Rhett was Peter from Champs and Bums were not there - so that put a crimp into the event..

Henry refuses to come to any further Nationals but we did call him from Glen Mechanic’s booth - enjoyed that..

At the beginning of the show, Tom (our leader) Paul Koch and I made a friendly bet as to who would make the first purchase..

Silly bet it was, as Paul had already purchased some cards..

Walt the Sunshine Guy had a space at Bob’s table and had a nice array of unopened packs and boxes..

Walt had an unopened wax pack that I needed and with my usual perspicacity I passed it by (confusing my wrapper with an unopened pack)..

When I finally realized my mistake, the pack was gone..

I have been having a dry spell with my Master Set Quest of the T113 set but managed to pick up my 1108 th card..

Last year there were approx 750 tables compared to this year’s 597..

When you take into consideration all the Auction Houses with multiple tables (with nothing for sale) plus Topps had space for around twenty tables and Steve Hart had at least ten tables…it becomes clear that there just isn’t a growth pattern for non-sport card tables..

Steve Sabow and Mitch were there…You know Steve is fond of stating that 98% of his material is ‘under the table’…I never really believed it until this year as he had no where near that amount of table space that he needed..

Sam Major’s and Nephew were as friendly as ever and I even picked up a couple of Allies In Action towards the Master Set (which is a futile Quest, yet I love it)..

Between the large jars of sugar candies, candy bars etc that Sam and Glen and others had - there was no room for actual meals..

This is the result of growing up in a Candy Store and being an employee starting at the age of eight..

It was a nice surprise that Maxine Evans (Josh’s Mom) was there and Debby spent a lot of time reminiscing of the Antique Toy days in 80-90s..

Sorry if I left anyone out..I am sure that I did..

J0hn Raff3rty
(Login swarmee)

Re: Report from the national?

July 31 2017, 5:44 PM 

Crazy pickup Frank! Love the GW cut. I will try to make it to Cleveland next year if I can fit it into my schedule.

(Login scaryclown)

Re: Report from the national?

July 31 2017, 7:50 PM 

Good pics from the show Cliff, especially the one with Marty. And I thought I was scary.


Daniel H
(Login PancakeBunny)

Re: Report from the national?

July 31 2017, 11:17 PM 

Just wrote a lengthy show summary, but I must have taken too long as it signed me out and deleted my entire post. I'll see if I can re-write it later this week.

(Login luckylarry777)

Re: Report from the national?

August 1 2017, 7:26 AM 

I was in Chicago for the National and attended the show all five days. I don't collect the antique/pre war stuff that many do here (well at least not yet) LOL! I am trying to complete my 50s 60s 70s sets. I did get the chance to meet and visit with Tom while he was behind a table (JDs I think).

My primary interest is sports cards, but I thought there was quite a bit of non sports cards at the show. I did shop at Steve Sabows table but bought most of my cards from another dealer whose name I do not know. He was set up on a corner and had non sports cards piled up high on all three sides. Singles stacked in Card Savers, and several complete sets too. I am just starting out in Exhibit cards and I put together a big stack of these that feature aircraft some have white numbers some have black numbers. Priced at 6 cards for $5 plus he always discounted on top of that. I also did heavy damage on all the astronauts sets I am working on. Another thing I bought from this guy who I do not know his name an unopened pack of Philadelphia Green Beret cards. I need just the #1 card to complete my set, and the pack was $10 so I have a one in sixty-six chance of getting the number one card? Well at least this is what I told myself. Alas, no #1 card in the pack, so I guess I bought a ten dollar wrapper LOL. Update when I got home a friend of mine texted me about a #1 card on eBay, and I picked it up yesterday.

Last months Wrapper had a story about the '56 Bubbles Elvis cards, a set I had not started yet. So after starter set from Alan Miley, I put a wantlist together and got that set down to just needing two cards. I discovered that there are two cards that show Elvis on a motorcycle, which demand a premium price, and It was fun thumbing through the cards and picking those up when I could. I ended up with five #23s and two #25s that show Elvis on a Harley, all were priced the same as the other commons around $3 each so I thought that was fun.

One guy in the back had a load of Donruss Odd Rod cards priced at $3 each pretty pricey for some of the re-issues from the '70s, but he had several on the original cards from 1969 mixed in, and I bought all he had. Maybe he knew what they were, maybe he didn't? But $3 each for the original cards is a good price plus he discounted for my large purchases. This same guy, tucked way in the back corner, also had a ton of those Fleer sets from the '70s that feature dragsters, and I finished my 1971 Fleer Official Drag Champs set. Now this might not sound like a big deal, but these cards are not numbered! You have to collect them by the heading on the card! I'm just glad to get this set completed and off my wantlist. "Guy in the Back" also finished off my Donruss Choppers and Hot Bikes set with the two cards I needed.

I finished that lame 1967 Topps Maya set too, with the #5 card I have been searching for five years for! One of those sets that is worth $10, but for some reason I tried to put it together card by card and I am into it for 3X that amount LOL! But I got the #5 card and paid .25c for it, that was a major accomplishment for me LOL!

Another .25c score that was huge I remember talk here about the 1978 Donruss Elvis card #24 that pictures just Elvis, not the more common #24 that pictures Elvis and the Colonel. To me, it's alot of fun to thumb through the stacks of '78 Elvis cards searching for that variation. Well it's fun if the cards are in order, a little more difficult if the cards are not in order. Anyway I did find one of these cards and paid full price .25c LOL!

I also picked up the handful of cards needed to complete my '59 Topps Wacky Plaks and '66 Glidrose 007 sets. These cards are still sitting on my kitchen table as I am having a hard time figuring out what box I have these cards in. I mean all my boxes are labeled, but either I am missing the labeling, or the boxes are mis-labeled, or I am just a dummy pick one of the above. Ohhh I almost forgot I also finished off 1953 Topps World On Wheels set! This dealer I nicknamed him "Half-Price Harry" cause every time I put down a stack of non-sports cards, he seemed to discount by 50% off his already adjusted price. Half-Price Harry had three of the high numbered cards, low grade at $14 each, and BOTH of the cards I needed were there! So I bought the two I needed, but 1/2 price Harry did not cut the price as much on those two cards LOL. I am still looking for cards numbered 170-180 with red backs I have blue backed cards but I heard you can find 170-180 with red backs too?

Final pick-up another dealer had a stack of beautiful 1961 Fleer Pirates Bold cards marked $3 or $4 each. I like this set, and most of my cards are low grade. I told him I would buy all he had for $2 each and he gave me the thumbs up so I picked up 30 cards all are upgrades all are beautiful cards too, and I'm down to just needing two more cards to complete my set.


(Login egbeachley)

Re: Report from the national?

August 1 2017, 8:24 AM 

I don't think you can draw any conclusions about the lack of non-sports for a couple reasons. First, it's a Sports Card Convention. Second, space was limited so the non-sports dealers who get a table later in the year got shutout. And finally, you can't gauge interest based on one event.

I'm committed to Cleveland in 2018. Any collectors who are part-time dealers ( meaning you sell dupes to fund you collecting) interested in splitting the cost of a table? I wouldn't mind setting up and enjoying the event, even if i sold nothing and it was just to show my collection to maybe spur interest.

J0hn Raff3rty
(Login swarmee)

Re: Report from the national?

August 1 2017, 5:35 PM 

Nice job Larry, but my "grammar Nazi" side is annoyed by your use of decimal points in front of 25c. You either paid 25 cents, or got 4 for a penny (.25c). Either way, congrats for getting cards off your wish list and finding that Elvis by himself.

Bill Bengen
(Login billbengen)

Hats off to Larry

August 1 2017, 6:22 PM 

Hi all,

I really enjoyed Larry's post. It's what this hobby is all about- pure, unadulterated joy.

BTW, Larry, I don't want to rain on your parade, but in WOW there are two variations of cards #91 and #7. Your set may not be technically complete until you have all the variations.

Happy hunting,

Bill Bengen


Daniel H
(Login PancakeBunny)

Re: Report from the national?

August 1 2017, 9:33 PM 

Although I likely live closer to Chicago than most on this board I was only able to spend one day at the National this year (Thursday). As such I just couldn’t bring myself to pay the VIP price of admittance which would have only gotten me in one hour early so I had pre-purchased a general admission entry and at 10:00 with want list in hand I hit the show floor. There was a decent crowd, which was nice to see. Mostly middle aged white guys but still a goodly number of them. The show only ran from 10:00 to 6:00 which I knew would not be a lot of time so I set off with a purpose. It took me until almost 3:00 to make it through the floor one time and that was racing by any table that consisted solely of shiny stuff (of which there were plenty), any corporate booth as there was really nothing for me to see there, any table consisting primarily of memorabilia, and the auction tables. There was cool stuff in the auction areas but I just didn’t have the time to invest in them (although I did take a peek at the R90 Mickey Mouse and the Movie Stars complete high grade set and the complete set of R114 American Caramel Presidents with punched McKinley card).

I will agree with Marty and Tom in saying that there was scant little vintage (pre-1950) non-sports cards there. As such I’ll also agree with Jim VB and say that if Bob Marcy wasn’t there it would have been much worse. A large percentage of what I purchased came from Bob. I spent a decent amount of time going through his binders of cards. Probably pulled forty to fifty cards from them. It was nice meeting Sam Majors and I did buy a few cards from Steve Sabow and Mitch’s table. Steve never stopped rearranging. Too much under the table and not enough on the table but still nice to see their stuff. They had a real nice complete box of R120 Remember Pearl Harbor.

One semi-regret from the day was my decision to not get the VIP ticket (I might have been able to go to the preview Wednesday night for the four hours the show was open to VIPs). This is because as I walked around would either see a few Allies in Action or ask those with vintage cards if they had any Allies in Action I was consistently met with the response “Marty picked them over/up yesterday night.” Literally I heard this three or four times. Had I been there the night before I might have been able to knock one or two off my list. I would have liked to have met Marty. I have had several trades/deals with him but I never ran into him. Likely because I had my head down the entire time.

After making it once around I headed to the PSA booth to drop off a few cards that I brought to get graded. I ran into Dave Lemon who was doing the same thing so I got to spend ninety minutes talking with Dave while waiting for the line to move. No one is more enthusiastic about non-sports cards than Dave. He had a great group of cards with him as per his usual high standards. I brought the cards to drop off as it seemed as though it would be the convenient thing to do but I lost a ton of time here. I have no idea what was going on with some of the submitters but one of the guys was at the table for what must have been a complete hour. I think they were letting people sit and fill out the paperwork once they got to the head of the line. It was a killer. I did ask why they no longer put the ACC reference number on the flips for non-sports cards. The guy working with me didn’t know. They are so careful to always put “T206” on any flip and in my mind the ACC number is no less important for any other card set but I never see them do it any longer. I requested that they put it on my submission’s flips; he made a note. We shall see.

After leaving PSA I was really short on time to do much more looking. I met up with Moderator Tom for a quick card/cash exchange before rushing off looking for a few diamonds in the rough. Other than a few way overpriced R89 Mickey Mouse cards with severe back damage at three or four tables I wasn’t able to add any pickups to my bag. Early on I ran across a sports guy with five R79 Leader Discs. I got excited as I’m working on this set and they are pretty tough. I asked to see them and asked how much. I was a little taken aback he the guy says “$450 each.” I don’t remember what I said but I know that it wasn’t “I’ll take them!” Weirdly the guy thought that they were Seal Crafts and mentioned that there were 240 in a set. I corrected him and said that there are likely only fifty-six. He took a picture of my want list as I have all known numbers documented there. I think in general sports guys don’t know vintage non-sports well and are so afraid to lose out on a penny that they price things outrageously so that they couldn’t possibly lose out on a penny. Sure R79s are rare but not $450 rare. Maybe slide that decimal place over one digit. I saw more R89 Mickey’s than anything else at sports tables and 99% of them were F-P with severe back damage. $25-50 was the normal pricing on them.

Shout out to my “local” store The Indy Card Exchange who were there for the first time. I was wearing their shirt which they provided free (they are my kind of guys)! They don’t have vintage non-sports but I get all of my supplies there. Great guys and glad to see them there.

I completed three sets but started at least three more. Ha a great time and hope to attend, and to have more time, in Cleveland next year.

This message has been edited by PancakeBunny on Aug 1, 2017 9:36 PM


Frank Evanov
(Login eagle147)


August 2 2017, 12:50 AM 

Thanks for the report Daniel. I agree that there wasn't much for us in Chicago, especially if you're a slabhead like me. It was nice talking to Steve and Mitch, and I did finally get to meet Tom Ryan of N224 fame. Talking to Dave Lemon is always fun as he is so enthusiastic about Non-Sports. Dave received several awards from PSA for his outstanding sets.. here he is with PSA's Joe Orlando:

[linked image]

Then Dave and I took a selfie:

[linked image]

I didn't win any PSA awards, but a friend of mine won an expensive bottle of Jack Daniels in a raffle. He had already left for home, so he asked me to pick it up for him. I had to take a photo with the waitress at the Hilton bar and Jack D. himself:

[linked image]


Tom Boblitt
(Premier Login autograf)


August 2 2017, 8:42 AM 

Daniel.........that guy has had those Leader Novelty discs for about 10+ years. I've seen the same ones in his case forever. I could even see upwards of $100 but $450? Crazy. They're significantly tougher than Seal Crafts but that pricing is ridiculous.


Dave H0rnish
(Login dsh46)

Re: Report from the national?

August 2 2017, 6:20 PM 

Hilariously I ended up with the bottle of JD as I checked a bag back to NY and got the handoff from Frank. Don't despair for Frank though, he had a whale of a show! I got in at noon Thursday but missed Marty and Tom (Tom, when did you leave?). I chatted for a bit with Lucky Larry Tipton on Saturday as well-he was having quite a show. I picked up about 50 Topps types from Bob Marcy and maybe a dozen from other sources. NS pickings were slimmer than normal, possibly because there were almost 20% less tables/booths than the last time in Chicago. Why they had all that wasted space in back is beyond me.

If you count from 1948-80, sports and non-sports, Topps issued about 1100 different sets (or things, if you will) in retail packs, counting inserts and test retail packs and Fun Packs. Of those approximately 1100 I am around 72% complete. For NS alone, with roughly 625 sets, my completion ratio is about 70%. Getting there....

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