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Panther D/A and early Jagdpanther radiator grill

February 26 2017 at 5:49 PM
steve faxon  (Login noxafs)
Missing-Lynx members

Here is a photo of a radiator cast cooling grill for the later Panther D, early A and early Jagdpanther.

It is shown sitting on a TWS Panther D for scale reference only This is a larger diameter grill than the ausf G type and has 14 vanes. This type of grill is seen on pages 5-61 and 5-71 of Panzer Tracts no.5 Issued around September 1943

I'm using them for my early Jagdpanther, Kengi Bergepanther and TWS kits......

[linked image]

The rectangle grills are next up along with a few other minor items.....

 
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Bruce Culver
(Login baker24)
Missing-Lynx members

Steve, will all these grills be available as a set, or.....

February 26 2017, 10:33 PM 

are they to be part of a complete conversion at some point.....? It would be nice to have a set of these for scratch-built conversions. I assume Jay at TWS will be offering these sets when they come out.

 
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Steve Faxon
(Login noxafs)
Missing-Lynx members

Hey Bruce....

February 26 2017, 11:22 PM 

I made a few for myself and sent the master off to Jay.....

And sent you an e-mail.........

 
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Rob Pye
(Login docpye2)
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Good news!

March 4 2017, 7:42 AM 

So that means that Jay will have to send out proper replacement parts to everyone (including me) that bought the Tank Workshop Panther conversion, right? I bought 3 of TWs Ausf A and 1 Ausf D....so I really look forward to the replacement parts being sent out given the original parts were clearly defective and incorrect. Good job Steve for fixing this huge problem with the Tank Workshop Panther conversion kits. I look forward to you fixing all the other problems, and Tank Workshop also sending out those replacement parts for those. I do indeed hope that Jay at Tank Workshop stands behind his products.

 
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Steve Faxon
(Login noxafs)
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Glad you're happy with it

March 4 2017, 11:11 PM 

As you recognize it as a "proper replacement part", now I think we are making some progress! Oddly as it may seem this is the exact same part, and photo that you commented on in a post on Track48, February 26 as being a Ausf G version and included in the TWS kit, which was in error. And alas it does not obligate Jay at TWS to really do anything of the sort from my standpoint. My intent for sending that particular radiator fan grill, along with a few other pieces was to attempt to make the early Jagdpanther a better kit, since my original masters sent to him were lacking in these areas. As you mentioned in a previous post somewhere, these shortcomings are not Jays fault, but mine, and others who sent him masters to produce. And although you are looking forward to the other fixes (I am finishing up a half dozen other radiator fan grills pertaining to the Ausf D and A and also the rectangular air intake grills) I have not yet discussed with Jay the possibility of reworking the current hulls he offers, but I might....right now I'm only making these for myself and a few folks who voiced an interest in doing some touch up work on the kits they have. So happy as you might be with them I don't know how they will directly benefit you......kisses to all


    
This message has been edited by noxafs on Mar 4, 2017 11:35 PM


 
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Rob Pye
(Login docpye2)
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Well take it easy cowboy....

March 5 2017, 2:13 PM 

Yes, your indeed making some progress but you also stated to Bruce that as of 26 Feb you had already sent these parts off to Jay. Hence, I really don't know understand why you posted a bunch of pics on T48 at the same time asking for comments as you were already done with the work it would seem. That was the same approach that got you into trouble with the Elefant/Ferdinand if you remember....but hey, we all make errors and sometimes rush things. The key thing is you have addressed in part some of the dire problems with the engine deck on Tank Workshop's Panther conversions set. And yes, despite what you say, it is indeed Jay's problem as he bought the masters off Bob and produces them, so if there is any correction set, then Jay would be responsible to ALL customers who paid good money to rectify all the problems by providing said correction set. That is if Jay actually stands behind the quality of what he produces and the customers he serves???

Less I digress, as you must have realized, the problems with Bob's original Panther conversions is that he didn't do his research and rushed it. If you recall, that was in part to beat Kengi to market who at the time I was also considering taking his Bergepanther and doing the conversion for the Ausf D and A. End result, Bob got to market first. Then flogged it onto Tank Workshop. Then your buddy Brett Green gave a fake review saying that the TW Panther was a 'GEM' when in fact it was a pile of crap. So if you are going to tackle all of the problems with the TW conversion I would strongly suggest you do your research, take your time, and do it right. You have the skills, that is clear but you also seem to be rushing things a bit. Sorry but you do and it effects your product, and the problems on the Elefant/Ferdinand Wayne, O'Reily, and me pointed out showed that. We didn't do it to diss you but to help you.

To be crystal clear, I am dissing you at all but just urging you to stop banging out masters and sending them off to Jay before showing your work to those that know so you can get constructive feedback. Otherwise, why post your work saying 'baby steps' and such?

In closing, I do hope that all of those lucky enough to be your buds/friends who get your corrected version of the engine deck bits will be happy. If we had some PE grills for the Ausf D/A (and yes, Part makes them but who wants to pay like 18 euros a set when you need 2 of them!) then any errors and omissions in your work would be gone, hidden under the grills. Yet, we currently don't have such PE sets and in any event, I still believe the way forward is not to do as you have (by hand, and no doubt a considerable effort on your part) but to get these items done in CAD and 3D printed. Let's hope that comes to fruition soon. In the meantime, Wayne and I (with O'Reily there for inspiration and the whip!) will continue to plod along with our Panther Ausf D and A conversion sets. You will no doubt beat us to market with what you have done but in the end we will be happy with what we get done.

Kisses to all! And to quote that infamous Spaniard / Kiwi, "HAVE FUN" wink.gif

 
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Steve Faxon
(Login noxafs)
Missing-Lynx members

well Rob......

March 5 2017, 4:13 PM 

First off I cannot speak for Jay, he runs TWS not me. I will say this,he has been awesome to work with from my standpoint. Obviously there is a bit of confusion about the grills and what went where and when. The radiator grill I sent to Jay was only the one as seen in the photo at the beginning of this thread. I was comfortable that it was correct for the early Jagdpanther (yes I did that kit)and along with it I sent a few other parts that I felt would enhance my earlier effort based on some better references that I recently acquired. So if it seemed that I was asking for help with the D grills on Track48 after they had already been sent to Jay you were mistaken...Looking back I would not have taken the photo of the early A grill mounted on ANY kit as that seemed to be misleading to you. The other grills that I posted to Track48 were for the ausf D and are still in my possession. Today I will have finished up the other radiator grills for versions of the ausf D and A as well as the rectangular intake grills. As yet Jay and I have not discussed any overhaul work on the Ausf D and A currently in his line of kits. So its not like I'm trying to beat anyone to market, it just happens to be what I'm working on at the moment. I figured that I should try to rectify my shortcomings with the early Jagdpanther kit I did for him. While I had all this material in front of me I saw no better time to work on the other Panther grills for my builds.....

As far as how and why Bob ended up with his product I would not care to speculate. I don't recall the two different companies release dates. I do remember the Kengi kit had some deficiencies when first announced, but Ken fixed them prior to the kit sales began.....but it also has intake grills that could be improved on a little...and recommends using the Tamiya ausf G radiator grills on the ausf D hull.....Kens stuff is some of the best around, but he seems to be taking a break. Too bad for us, not only was it very good stuff but very cool subjects, I thought....

I agree that all these types of parts could be better done, certainly with less work via CAD and 3D printing....but I'm too long in the tooth for that stuff, and too cheap as well. And I enjoy the challenge of doing these grills......But as soon as these are done I'm going to find some SIMPLE stuff to do for awhile!!! And I don't think PE parts are terribly far off......

Back to the bench..........

 
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Rob Pye
(Login docpye2)
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TW Jagdpanther conversion

March 5 2017, 2:16 PM 

As you mentioned the TW Jagdpanther conversion, did you do this conversion set???? Just wondering...

 
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Rob Pye
(Login docpye2)
Missing-Lynx members

Thanks for the info Steve, much appreciated

March 6 2017, 5:05 AM 

Thanks for the info Steve, much appreciated.

 
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steve faxon
(Login noxafs)
Missing-Lynx members

Panther ausf A grill vs ausf G

February 27 2017, 3:03 PM 

I'm hoping this picture might help with some dimensional issues that are hard to see with the way I presented the grill in the previous post and photo......here it is next to a Tamiya ausf G grill..... not terribly obvious I guess, but in 1/48 it would be hard to see.....rest assured the resin part is larger in diameter....PT call it a 14 spoke version and it is seen in several drawings of early Panther ausf A and Jagdpanthers Also in the works are several very early Ausf D types and the later Ausf A spiral arm type.....

[linked image]


    
This message has been edited by noxafs on Feb 27, 2017 8:13 PM


 
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