Check out my web site www.jeremypern.com

As someone so familiar with the effects that a putting green can have on its users, viewers and caretakers, and as someone who has made his business to know all there is about putting greens I assume you must have an opinion about the contour design of a putting green. As a golf course architect I would be interested to know what you consider to be the ultimate putting surface design.

Cheers

Jeremy Pern

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for the kind words. You have a very professional website, and of course I have added it to my resource.

BTW, I spent the summer of 1974 in Margate and hitch-hiking through northern France. Perhaps our paths came close at times.

In answer to your question, my notions of the ideal green are based on the following set of principles:

1. The siting of the green should conform "naturally" with the surrounding terrain (don't care much for timbering a la Pete Dye).

2. The green should fairly receive the typical approach shot (don't care much for dome-shaped or crowned greens a la old Donald Ross - they were needed under the construction methods at that time; nor do I care much for the excessive canting back-to-front of modern TPC-style stadium greens -- I like a nice balance with some challenge; occasional surround mounding is ok but not to the extent it makes a giant bowl for the approach shots).

3. Overall sizing has to reflect a mix of sizes for the course for fairness' sake, from, say, a small dimension of about 7,000 square feet to a large size of about 15,000 square feet (don't see the point of gigantic greens when shot precision from the fairway ought to allow a decent golfer to get within 50 feet 100% of the time he hits the green at all -- putts over about 60 feet are goofy in terms of technique and consistency, and should be so rare that they just don't come into play more than about once in every three or so rounds; anything under about 7,000 feet probably doesn't have sufficient pinnable areas to spread the foot traffic around and maintain surface quality).

4. Tiers should be compelled by the siting, never optional, and kept to perhaps only two or three greens of 18, not especially steep, and functionally divide the green into proportionately sized "lobes" or landing areas with sufficient pinnable areas to keep the hole well away from the top or bottom edge of the tier.

5. Overall slope should stay generally well under 3 percent, unless the green is often "slow" -- 8 or less on the Stimpmeter.

6. Greenside bunkering should always allow a run-up apron approach on par 4+ holes that is at least about 1 foot wide for every ten yards back in the fairway for the typical approach (20' wide for 200 yards approach shot).

7. Artificial manipulations of the contour should be kept to a minimum (some modest adjustment ok to prevent runoff through a greenside bunker, some modest adjustments to channel water drainage off to collection areas outside overall drainage pattern of terrain (I don't care much for deep swales cutting the green on one side like a big pie slice; don't care much for buried elephant undulations).

8. Green design should foster "gentle" greenkeeping practices to eliminate hard to mow areas (near bunkers or on sharp tiers) that cause scalping or tire torquing burns.

9. Greens don't need false fronts - seems dumb to me, only fools the visitor once, and it isn't too nice to do that.

10. Risk-reward design should always allow an interesting bail-out shot that makes a par recovery difficult but not highly unlikely (don't care much for island greens, greens tucked right next to ponds or creeks, greens that drop off into a hardpan five or six feet below the surface, greens with high rough behind and severely forward-sloping downhill surfaces that disallow control coming back).

11. Surface condition should obviously be nice (no weeds, diseases, gouges, trash, etc.) and the grass fairly uniform in gowth, density, and mowing height, so that the ball rolls true and good technique is rewarded (tempo control mostly) -- apart from this, I don't worship speed, even though I personally practice on a cork floor and probably have a greater advantage over most other golfers the faster the surface is. I just like it above 9.

12. I can take or leave grain. It's fun to work with it.

13. A little partial area of shade is nice, because of the speed variations and perceptual difficulties it introduces.

I could continue, but I guess this will serve as a general indicator of my values. Generally speaking, putting a straight putt outside of 15 feet is tough enough, and reading breaks and speeds ought to be a matter of subtlety and precision rather than dumb luck. Any gimmickry that makes the task basically beyond the golfer's performing at 90% capacity is probably not good. For example, at Oakmont and at Augusta, when the greens reach Stimp 12 or more, the game looks stupid as played by the world's best. This was certainly the case with Payne Stewart at the Olympic US Open in San Francisco when his 72nd hole putt ran off the green and he lost by one stroke. The 72nd hole at Pinehurst, however, looked great, and the 20-footer to win was a challenge, but certainly dooable if the golfer is cool enough. The putting battle of John Daly and Costantino Rocca at St Andrews on the 72nd hole struck me as interesting to watch, but not really a good test of skills. While both made their long putts, I'm sure both knew there was just too much luck in the result for that to be the way golf is contested hole to hole.


Thanks again for your email, and I hope we can start a rich conversation.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
The PuttingZone.com
http://puttingzone.com
The Future of Putting Now
Elite instruction from the world's most comprehensive resource.

J'esserai en Francaise:

Cher Jeremy,

Merci des mots aimables. Vous avez un website très professionnel, et naturellement je l'ai ajouté à ma ressource. BTW, j'ai passé l'été de 1974 dans Margate et de l'auto-stop par la France nordique. Peut-être nos voies d'accès sont venues étroitement parfois. En réponse à votre question, mes notions du vert idéal sont basées sur l'ensemble suivant de principaux:

1. L'emplacement du vert devrait se conformer "naturellement" au terrain environnant (ne vous inquiétez pas beaucoup de boiser un colorant de Peter de La).

2. Le vert devrait assez recevoir le projectile typique d'approche (ne vous inquiétez pas beaucoup des verts en forme de dôme ou couronnés une La vieux Donald Ross - ils étaient nécessaires sous les méthodes de construction à ce moment-là; ni le soin de I beaucoup pour le biseautage excessif en arrière-à-avant des verts modernes de stade de TPC-style -- j'aime un équilibre gentil avec un certain défi; occasionnel entourez mounding est correct mais pas jusqu' au degré qu'il fait une cuvette géante pour les projectiles d'approche).

3. Global classement par taille devoir refléter un mélange taille pour cours pour fairness saké, par exemple un petit dimension environ 7.000 pied un grand taille environ 15.000 pied (non voir point colossal vert quand projectile précision fairway devoir pour permettre un décent golfer pour obtenir dans 50 pied 100% temps frapper vert tout -- putts plus de environ 60 pied goofy en termes de technique et uniformité, et devoir ainsi rare que juste non hériter jeu plus que environ une fois dans chaque trois ou ainsi arrondir; quelque chose sous environ 7.000 pieds n'a pas probablement des zones pinnable suffisantes pour écarter le trafic de pied autour et pour mettre à jour la qualité extérieure).

4. Des rangées devraient être contraintes par l'emplacement, peut-être seulement deux ou trois des verts jamais facultatifs et et gardés de 18, pas particulièrement raides, et divisent fonctionellement le vert en " lobes " proportionnellement classés ou zones d'atterrissage avec des zones pinnable suffisantes pour maintenir le puits de trou parti du rebord supérieur ou inférieur de la rangée.

5. La pente globale devrait rester généralement bien au-dessous de 3 pour cent, à moins que le vert soit souvent " ralentissent " -- 8 ou moins sur le Stimpmeter.

6. Greenside bunkering devrait toujours permettre une approche de tablier de point fixe sur les trous 4+ par qui est au moins d'environ 1 pied de large tous les dix yards arrières dans le fairway pour l'approche typique (20 ' au loin 200 yards approchent le projectile).

7. Artificiel manipulation découpe devoir garder un minimum (quelque modeste réglage ok pour empêcher écoulement à travers un greenside soute, quelque modeste réglage pour creuser des rigoles eau drainage hors fonction collection zone extérieur global drainage configuration terrain (je non inquiéter beaucoup pour profond swales couper vert sur un côté comme un grand pâté en croûte part; ne vous inquiétez pas beaucoup des ondulations enterrées d'éléphant).

8. La conception verte devrait stimuler " adoucissent " des pratiques greenkeeping d'éliminer dur pour faucher des zones (près des soutes ou sur les rangées pointues) cette cause scalping ou pour fatiguer serrer à la clé dynamométrique des brûlures.

9. Les verts n'ont pas besoin d'avants faux - semble sourd-muet à moi, seulement les imbéciles le visiteur une fois, et il ne fait pas trop beau pour faire cela.

10. Risk-récompense conception devoir toujours permettre un intéressant bail-out tirer qui rendre un par reprise difficile mais non haut peu susceptible (non inquiéter beaucoup pour île vert, vert remplier bien à côté étang ou crique, vert qui relâcher hors fonction dans un hardpan cinq ou six pied au-dessous surface, vert avec haut rugueux derrière et grave vers l'avant-forward-sloping incliné surface qui rejeter commande revenir).

11. La condition extérieure devrait évidemment être gentille (aucun mauvaise herbe, maladie, gouge, détritus, etc...) **time-out** et herbe juste uniforme dans gowth, densité, et mowing taille, de sorte que boule rouler vrai et bon technique récompenser (tempo commande la plupart du temps) -- indépendamment ce, je non adorer vitesse, quoique je personnel pratique sur un liège plancher et probable avoir un grand avantage au-dessus plus autre golfers rapide surface. Je l'aime juste au-dessus de 9.

12. Je puis prendre ou laisser le grain. C'est amusement à travailler avec lui.

13. Une peu de zone partielle d'ombre est gentille, en raison des variations de vitesse et des difficultés perceptuelles qu'elle présente.

Je pourrais continuer, mais je devine que ceci servira d'indicateur général de mes valeurs. D'une manière générale, mettant un putt droit en dehors de de 15 pieds est assez dur, et relever des ruptures et des vitesses doit être une question de subtlety et de précision plutôt que chance sourde-muette. Tout gimmickry qui fait la tâche fondamentalement au delà du golfer exécutant à la capacité 90% n'est probablement pas bonne. Par exemple, chez Oakmont et à Augusta, quand les verts atteignent Stimp 12 ou plus, le jeu regarde stupide comme joué par le monde meilleur. C'était certainement le cas avec Payne Stewart aux USA olympiques ouverts à San Francisco quand son soixante-douzième putt de trou a coulé le vert et il a détruit par une rappe. Le soixante-douzième trou à Pinehurst, cependant, semblé grand, et au 20-footer pour gagner était un défi, mais certainement dooable si le golfer est assez frais. La bataille de mise de John Daly et de Costantino Rocca à la rue Andrews sur le soixante-douzième trou m'a frappé comme intéresser à observer, mais comme pas vraiment bon essai des qualifications. Tandis que tous les deux faisaient leurs longs putts, je suis sûr tous les deux ont su qu'il y avait juste trop de chance dans le résultat pour que cela soit la voie que le golf est trou contesté à trouer.

Merci encore de votre email, et moi espérons que nous pouvons commencer une conversation riche.

À la votre!

Geoff Mangum
le PuttingZone.com
http://puttingzone.com
le futur de mettre maintenant
l'instruction d'élite de la ressource la plus complète du monde.

Dear Geoff

Many thanks for your long and precise email. You seem to have covered all the points , most of which I agree wholeheartedly with. The only main difference concerns actual green size. In Europe the average size of a green on a middle of the road new golf course is around 550m2 (approx. 5500sq feet) The range of green sizes on a standard course would be between 4000 ft2 (very small- short par three) and 7500 ft2 (long par 4). It would be unusual to go outside these sizes on a new course, mainly for cost reasons. The cost of a putting green construction (not including earthworks, shaping and irrigation whose cost is not directly proportional putting area) is in the order of $3-4 per ft2 ($35 per m2). An average 18 hole course in Europe has about 1 ha (2,4 acres) of green.

Actually most people think their greens are much bigger than they really are. Even greenkeepers will assume that their greens are 20-30% bigger than
reality. 5500 ft2 greens are usually within the 20x30m range (50x 70ft). High use public golf courses require much larger putting surfaces of course, but they never seem to have the budget necessary to match demand.

In 1974, while you were in Margate, I hitch hiked from Brownsville, Texas to New York on my way home after a couple of years spent with the British
version of Peace Corps, in Colombia. I spent most of my child hood in Hastings a town not far from Margate. Small world.

Best regards

Jeremy

Dear Jeremy,

Of course I don't have all that good an idea about green sizes, and I sure appreciate your giving me some real numbers. Have you ever read H.A. Templeton's book, Vector Putting? Here is tghe review I posted:

H.A. Templeton,

Vector Putting: The Art and Science of Reading Greens and Computing Break (Vector Golf 1984).

Hardback, 194 pp. Out of print. Templeton's book is the ONLY serious effort to bring science to bear on analyzing the dynamics of the ball-green interactions. Excellent analysis of human neurophysiology of slope or tilt detection research and good geometric, physics, and mathematical analysis of curving of rolling balls on tilted surfaces. Very good analysis of green speeds and ball-hole interactions for capture optimization. A vastly underappreciated book, although recommended in Gary Wiren's PGA Manual of Golf, the book's serious treatment of the subject apparently costs it in readership. The book was originally published in an edition limited to a run of 500, out of Texas where Templeton resides. Copies are difficult to come by for purchase, but a copy can fairly easily be obtained on loan through the Interlibrary Loan Service of your local library. I got my copy at the davis Undergraduate Library at the University of North carolina, in case your reference librarian can't locate a copy by his or her conventional ILS search method. And if all else fails, send me email and I'll try to help you!

Highly recommended.

In his book, Templeton mapped the greens at Carswell Air Force Base in Texas. They were typical low-budget, public-course greens. From that I basically got the impression that all greens easily fit within a 100'x60' square, and so are well under 6,000 square feet. I also surveyed course maps of major British courses. Here is an excerpt from a draft of a book I'm writing that you might find interesting:

Another approach that corroborates the above is to look at typical green sizes. The general impression one gets is that fairways are not often wider than about 50 yards, and greens therefore are not usually as wide as the widest part of the fairway. And greens are often roundish to kidney-bean or amoebae shaped, and the kidney-bean shaped greens have the long axis in line with the fairway about half the time and athwart the fairway about half the time and in either case the long axis is not usually over 50 yards long. Hence, a typical green is not likely to measure 150 feet by 150 feet, or 22,500 square feet in size. In fact, the size is considerably smaller than this and only about one-third this large on average. The 9th green at Oakmont, at 20,500 square feet, is the largest green in the United States, measuring 187 feet from front to back and ranging 101 to 117 feet across. A survey of ten British greens, excluding St. Andrews due to its seven double greens, shows the long axis of greens is seldom over 40 yards and generally is about 35 yards, or about 100 feet. These greens would fit within a 100-foot square with plenty of room left over, with an area well below 10,000 square feet, and probably closer to 6,000 to 7,000 square feet.

Long Axis of British Greens (Yards)



Course / #
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
Avg



Birkdale
27
34
36
33
33
40
28
35
29
31
35
30
34
32
33
37
37
36

=average(LEFT) \# "33.3"

Belfry
31
35
32
21
24
33
30
32
30
46
27
39
32
35
37
24
39
59

=AVERAGE(left) \# "33.7"

Carnoustie
35
55
40
32
40
48
28
32
42
38
39
23
42
38
36
46
39
43

=average(LEFT) \# "38.7"

Muirfield
37
36
44
41
38
35
38
31
32
28
29
42
44
31
36
34
40
35

=average(LEFT) \# "36.2"

Prestwick
28
32
27
33
37
32
28
31
31
30
32
28
23
32
33
36
16
45

=average(LEFT) \# "30.8"

St Georges
37
26
42
34
40
37
37
40
39
35
35
36
42
36
36
36
24
33

=average(LEFT) \# "35.8"

St Lytham
34
33
37
33
34
32
28
29
29
31
31
29
37
32
32
38
31
43

=average(LEFT) \# "32.9"

Troon
30
30
30
27
29
32
29
30
26
32
29
27
30
29
32
30
28
38

=average(LEFT) \# "29.9"

Turnberry
29
35
35
31
31
30
32
39
31
28
25
32
41
30
36
27
33
29

=average(LEFT) \# "31.9"

Wentworth
29
23
37
29
35
30
30
32
31
31
33
31
29
24
31
28
30
38

=average(LEFT) \# "30.6"

Overall Average

=AVERAGE(above) \# "33.4"

H.A. Templeton in the 1980s devised a green charting system and applied it to the Carswell Air Force Base Golf Course, and the greens typically fit within a 100-foot by 60-foot grid. These greens, then, have well under 6,000 square feet, and this appears to be pretty typical for most American courses, and is also consistent with the British courses above.

The placement of pins on these greens further limits the likely first-putt length. Pins as a rule are not placed nearer the edge than about 10 to 12 feet, and hole placement locations are rotated regularly and kept apart so that the concentrated foot traffic the hole draws (like a sprawling asterisk or octopus of tracks centered on the hole) is spread around the green over time. Thus, a rule of thumb for green designers is that, for a green to be able to spread the foot traffic around over time with different pin placements, a green needs to be large enough to accommodate 14 different nonoverlapping pin placement circles each with a radius of 12 feet (a circle around the hole with 452 square feet in area). Changing the pin placement once daily thus allows the foot-track "octopus" to be moved around the green and "rest" each former hole location for two weeks of recovery for each day of heavy wear from traffic. A 6,000-square-foot green will hold 13 such circles without overlap, depending on the shape of its outer boundaries. A 6,000-square-foot green in the shape of a circle has a radius of 43.7 feet, so no first putt on such a green could be longer than 87 feet, even if the cup is on an edge and the ball on the opposite edge, or longer than about 75 feet if the pin is 10 to 12 feet in from the edge and the ball parked against the opposite fringe. An approach shot that is aimed at the middle of such a green and that lands in the middle will not have a first putt longer than about 30 feet, even if the cup is only 10 to 12 feet in from the edge.

The above tells us that top pros, if they hit about 12-14 greens in regulation during a round, are likely to face a lot of putts under 20 feet, and they will sink about five or six first putts in a round. If they can stay clear of bogeys, they can shoot as low as 6 under par, or 66 on a par-72 course. The five or six putts that pros sink on these 12-14 GIRs typically are a combination that includes a few under 10 feet, a couple between 10 and 20 feet, and perhaps 1 or 2 outside 20 feet. The real payola in pro putting is in the 8- to 15-foot range, and a pro with a hot putter is one who gets these down and also makes a couple over 20 feet.

I'm sure there are much more precise numbers. Maybe the Scoresavers website with its yardage maps for Europe might help. In any event, it's pretty obvious that 10,000 square feet is way above the typical green size. And equally obvious is the fact that I'm just guestimating. So, again, I really appreciate hard numbers.

For your possible amusement, I'm attaching a .pdf file of my book draft and tips (requires Adobe Reader).

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Greensboro NC USA