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Pendulum Swing vs Bellyputter Swing

November 10 2002 at 12:20 PM
 
from IP address 204.31.33.153

Geoff,
First, I'd like to thank you for your tremendously indepth website. I have been reading it for some time and appreciate the level of your work...fantastic.

Can you tell me if you have had the chance to observe the difference (or similiarity) between a pendulum swing of and individual using a properly fitted putter, i.e. arms hanging, proper length putter, set up correct, in comparison to a person using a bellyputter? I realize that ball position may be different in the stance but I'm interested mainly in the swing itself. The lengthening of the shaft of a bellyputter to properly fit one should not affect where that person actually grips the putter as I think it would be the same. I'm also thinking that the swings would be quite similiar, though one might be more consistent than the other, that being the belleyputter.

Thanks,
Greg.

 
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172.134.42.96

Belly Putter Stroke

November 10 2002, 6:23 PM 

Dear Greg,

Thanks for the kind remarks!

Once the belly putter is planted somewhere in the gut, there are essentially two different ways to make the stroke. One is to use the arms to move the putter, with the shoulderframe staying pretty much the way it is at address. The other way is to move the shoulderframe the same way you would in a pendulum stroke, with the arms and hands in a "fixed triangle" that rocks with the shoulders.

There are two different pivots involved here. For the arms stroke, the pivot is the top of the putter handle in the gut. For the pendulum stroke, the pivot is the same as usual, in the base of the neck about which the shoulderframe pivots like a coathanger on a rod.

With the two pivots, there are two different "natural" tempoes. The arms pivot in the gut has a short pendulum length and a quickish tempo that encourages a fastish stroke pattern, with shorter stroke lengths back and thru. For the pendulum stroke with the pivot in the neck area, the stroke tempo and stroke lengths are the same as usual.

Also, with the pendulum style stroke with the belly putter, the hands CAN hang all the way down or can be higher up the handle with the elbows crooked. It doesn't matter too much since the arms and hands are dead and inactive. It's probably more comfortable to let the hands hang as far as they want to go before taking the grip in hand. The shoulders will be more relaxed that way, as holding the elbows crooked is a matter of constant tension in the pectoral muscles, the biceps, and the shoulder muscles. Either way, having the butt of the putter securely against the body helps keep the hands out of the stroke.

Using the arms-hand style stroke with the belly putter may keep the pivot more stable for some golfers, but using the hands encourages putterface twists and making the stroke run off line. Whether the ams style or the pendulum style has a MORE STABLE pivot is debatable.

On the one hand, with the arms style, it would seem easier to keep the hips and gut still since the upper torso is not moving. That would suggest the arms style has a more stable pivot. And with the pendulum style, the butt of the putter in the gut is not really the pivot -- the neck area is. Because of this, there is some question about what kind of stroke path you get when you rock the shoulderframe.

In the usual short-putter pendulum stroke, the butt of the putter points at the pivot or at least at some point in the sternum that is not too far below the neck, and the putter handle maintains this pointing direction at all times in the stroke. This allows a shoulderframe rocking that stays in a vertical plane, and the hands move a little farther away from the legs the farther the stroke goes so the hands can move straight back and thru.

With the belly putter in the gut, however, the distance from the body to the hands is fixed by the putter handle. This means that unless your gut is flat above the surface and the putter is aimed vertical at the ground (which it certainly won't be), the stroke path will curl back inside on the backstroke and curl back inside again in the thru-stroke, and you are actually prevented from moving the hands a little farther from the legs going back or thru, so the stroke cannot really be a straight path. So a belly putter would encourage an arcing or gating stroke path with either the arms style or the pendulum style stroke.

That being the case, the belly putter has less of a path that is straight, so the style depends more upon the stability of the pivot than the short-putter pendulum style does. That's a little counter-intuitive to the marketing spiel.

Another complication is that you still have to aim the putt, and make the stroke move the putter squarely thru the ball on the intended line, with good touch. Using the arms style belly putter, distance control becomes something of a problem on longer putts. And also on longer putts, the pendulum style stroke has its own problem, with the belly putter OR the conventional putter.

So, in the final analysis, the conventional putter and the belly putter are pretty close if using the pendulum stroke style. The conventional style makes it easier to keep the putter moving on line longer thru the hitting area, and the pivot control between the belly putter pendulum stroke and the conventional pendulum stroke is not all that different. The pivot is still in the neck. Advantage to the conventional method, due to less arcing in the path. Comparing the arms stroke with the belly putter to the conventional putter pendulum stroke, the added stability in the pivot of the belly putter is probably outweighed by activating the hands (always dangerous to the putterface and path).

The belly putter is really two different systems, depending on how you move the putter. All in all, it will help golfers who don't have good pivot control, but won't help golfers very much if they are already pretty good at managing the pivot.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
The PuttingZone
http://puttingzone.com
Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction.


 
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210.55.222.109

Re: Belly Putter Stroke

March 3 2003, 5:51 PM 

Hi Geoff

my thoughts preceded by SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

SSSSSSSSSSS Enjoyed reading your analysis, and thought I'd add a little here and there

*Once the belly putter is planted somewhere in the gut, there are essentially two different ways to make the stroke.*

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Agreed although I think it is inevitable both are at least a little involved in the swing (as all the various pivots are involved in normal putting)

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS It might be better if they were known as the shoulder stroke and the arm stroke as the former is probably less deserving of the term pendulum than the latter!)

*Also, with the shoulder style stroke with the belly putter, the hands CAN hang all the way down or can be higher up the handle with the elbows crooked.*

SSSSSSSSSSSS Basically the more higher the hands are the more arm stroke , and with the arms extended there is more a shoulder pivot action

*On the one hand, with the arms style, it would seem easier to keep the hips and gut still since the upper torso is not moving. That would suggest the arms style has a more stable pivot.*

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS this is relevant to longer putts where the shoulder method is a little awkward to apply enough force! - no wrists involved

*So a belly putter would encourage an arcing or gating stroke path with either the arms style or the pendulum style stroke.*

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Yep but it is reliable!- I just ignore it!

*That being the case, the belly putter has less of a path that is straight, so the style depends more upon the stability of the pivot than the short-putter pendulum style does. That's a little counter-intuitive to the marketing spiel.*

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Do we really care about arcing a little if it is naturally reliable?

*So, in the final analysis, the conventional putter and the belly putter are pretty close if using the shoulder stroke style.*

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs Except one does nothing to stabilise the wrists (conventional short putter)whereas the other is wristless (shoulder belly putter)...........(Of course the third option(arm belly)is wrist stabilised)

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS A little thought here is in the arm method the contact with the body allows a VERY light grip of the putter which mitigates againsgt over use of the hands - ie the pure pendulum from teh belly is at it'e closest approximation

Cheers!

Simon of www.bellyputter.com (the site about those damned belly putters!)

 
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