Geoff,

I am working on one idea I will explain it as follows.

Basically working off of a square overall position and eyes over the ball I have tried three different methods of putting nothing revolutionary here. I forget the 1880’s quote about the methods but I will post it when I find it.

Here they are generally:

Putt with shoulders.
Putt with the forearms.
Putt with the hands.

I have tried all three with shoulder putting I can consistently get the putter head traveling back and forth down the line. Same with forearm putting which look pretty good as does shoulder putting I use a Targaline putting green at home and simply follow the string back and forth down the line. Often aka: Sones I putt without the ball for 5-10 minutes maybe 100 strokes or more.

However the difficulty for me anyway is transiting this method to actual play. I look at the distance allow time for my shoulders or hands to sense the distance and speed required of the stroke and try to let it happen or not get in the way.

Focusing on both hands usually results in me taking the putter to far inside though I get pretty good speed control. I am a very good short game player and its always confounded me why I have great distance control on chips and pitches and not putting.

But no way my distance control is always off both on short putts and longer putts.

So I have revised my approach. Basically it’s this way. In all other sports throwing a football, taking a pool shot or casting bait. You instinctively and then through years of practice sense, internally compute and execute various the tosses if you will. This is dictated by your eyes and then straight through to your dominate hand, mine being right handed. Why my left hand is just not used to working in congruence with the right hand. Its somewhat disconnected in my view, it does have a role I describe below.

I don’t think of bring my arm back a specific distance to throw or forward to throw a football, I just do. So why for me anyway, am I fighting my minds image and hand and fingers to a response for putting. Do I choose to be right handed at some point or am I born that way. I guess it doesn’t matter in the end I am right handed and then daily ingrain the right hand being in connection with the brain if you will.

I know of no action in sport which necessitates the mind directly going to the shoulders or arms for producing any athletic action. I maybe wrong. But I feel ackward in attempting my mind to direct my should action. It for me would be like writing left handed after years of writing right handed. It’s a mess, but I can force it to work. If you sit at a chair and say raise your arms you can feel this disconnect the mind says ok but you have to focus. If you tell you right hand to raise you know you doing it but it doesn’t feel like its giving feed back.

So here is my theory.

1. One in throwing a football or baseball a common part is getting the right wrist set upon or towards the back of its self somewhat. Not allot but a few degrees. A baseball a little more. For the putt it’s critical for me for the right wrist to be set upon its self somewhat a few degrees etc.

2. This for me then, must be held set in this position throughout the stroke on the back swing to have time for the brain to transmit the feel and speed needed for the putt. Secondly so as to not turn left, stay open or break down through the stroke the ball. Once its set I hold it in other words through out the shot. I use the Bickler aid to retain this feel. Additionally I should add if I have to choose between going back straight and square and going through straight and square. There in no choice for me I want square through and forward verses the straight and square backstroke. Sometimes I just practice rehearsing going Forward Square down the line.

3. Second is a very late or passive left hand finger grip pressure this also includes the wrist. Its role is support, guidance to the club. Its role is not to interfere or interrupt the brain, and eye’s automatic transmission of information to the right fingers, hand and wrists. I should also mention I prefer a relaxed left wrist because again I don’t want anything to interfere with the right hand and fingers control of the shot. And the passing back and forth of information the brain uses to judge speed. If I focus on not having the left wrist down I degrade the right hands role in judgment of the putt. Just add a little support that’s all I am asking.

4. I practice going straight down and through the line right hand only to build confidence in my path. Etc. But I want to sense the right fingers really feeling this so I don’t practice a conflicting message to the right fingers and hand.

5. Most importantly to gauge the speed on the green is my focus on the right hand and more accurately the right fingers with the wrist retaining the set through out. I might even take a couple of practice swings on the green looking at the hole to really feel the stroke with the right hand and fingers.

6. So what am I? I am not a shoulder, arm, forearm or hands putter. I am a right fingered putter using a firm right wrist and passive left hand and wrist. A hand putter tells less then ½ of the method I have worked towards. It’s more like 50% right fingers (mostily the middle finger and forefinger), 30% firm and set right wrist and 20% left hand assisting. Loose left doesn’t mean any pressure but its less then the right so as to not interfere with speed.


This is off the subject somewhat but I have to say maybe golf instruction and maybe putting instruction has to be view somewhat skeptically when applied to your own game. So I am not sure when a should putter says that’s what they do that is really what they do inside of the person.

In my view I add in general golf instruction is more folk lore then what’s actually happening let me explain. Ben Hogan’s 5 Lessons is considered one of the best written by one of the best. Yet Hogan doesn’t do what Hogan says he does. Jin McLean and Leadbetter surely show the numerous things Hogan actually did verses Hogan’s attempt to describe what he did. Not faulting Hogan at all its just you cannot describe, if you will the secret things of the heart and mind always accurately at speed. Faldo says it best, something like you feel like you making these massive changes then look on tape and the club move maybe a ½ inch. His description before looking on video may have been significantily

Snead takes another approach to golf explanations, which is interesting he does not describe shots generally as mechanical rather he describes them from a psychological perspective. For example in the Golf Channel video with McLean Snead almost chastises McClean on a swing error preferring his own description of being “anxious” on a shot verses McLean’s analysis of he came off-plane I believe. Ok so which comes first I think Snead is right you get nervious or anxious and then make a mechanical error maybe and then even ingrain it. Rather then saying his head lifted up on the chip shot. Snead explains they wanted to “see where it was going before they hit it”. I think Snead is on to the right idea, the mind does some predictable weird things under the enviroment of a golf shot which produces mechanical errors.

Of course errors are not all psychological nor are they all mechanical but there is more of an emphasis on the mechanical verses the psychological. I think it needs to be reversed.

But anyway that’s my theory I am not sure its my own others or not used at all. But it works for me I simply don’t want to fight the right hand and fingers role. I use it for writing, mouse control, driving and drinking water.

Its worked good for those how much control do you see as the best role for the right hand and fingers? I look forward to your response.

Thanks Geoff,


Garry

PS: I have looked at the Dandy putters. I am one of those guys who belive in a poor mechanic blames his tools. I have had a Ping B-60 copper since early 90’s. I am thinking about a new putter maybe the Oddsey White Hot #5. What usally stops me I start thinking you know this old putter has made some great putting successes and that stops me from what I feel is starting over to gain successes with a new putter. The success of past putts with a putter is priceless. Even if you spend $ 300 on a new putter, how can it replace a must make 6 footer or a sweeping 30 foot eagle putt you have made.

I would also be very interested in your view of the Dandy putters as you know I use the Smith hooding approach.

Dear Gary,

Thanks for the marvelous description of technique and your thoughts.

Let me single out two aspects of your ideas for my comments: the firm wrists and the fingers or hands in distance control.

The setting of the right wrist in the backstroke is a technique shared by Loren Roberts, Bobby Locke, Gil Morgan, Greg Norman, and quite a few other great putters. I've tried it often over the years and just prefer to go without what strikes me as an added complication. Perhaps time and continued experimentation will change my view. I'm not exactly clear as to why some golfers think this setting of the wrist helps. Loren Roberts says allowing the wrists to hinge going back gives added "play" in the stroke and this gives him a more fluid distance control. He doesn't complete the thought, though, because he doesn't explain why he fixes the wrists position at the top of the backstroke to prevent this fluidity in the more crtucial forward stroke. I would note that Bob heintz, the best putter on the PGA Tour BY FAR, allows both his wrists to hinge in the forward stroke, at least after impact. he looks like a textbook case of left-wrist breakdown!

I would be interested in any clarification you might want to offer about why a) allowing some flexibility in the wrists going back is good, instead of just pre-setting the wrists position at address to start with or holding the wrists fixed in the same way at all times, and b) why then fixing the wrists at the top is good, and thus not allowing flexibility going forward.

With respect to hands and fingers in distance control, I would suggest that the torso, shoulders, elbows, and forearms have more to do with distance control in football, baseball, basketball, and even fly fishing than many people suppose. It is very easy to imagine that the fingers are sensing a distance, but what the body really seems to be doing is calibrating the motion of the whole system from legs and torso on out. To me, a good example of how the body really works for touch or distance control is pitching pennies at a wall. The common and arguably most effective "technique" is to lean a bit forward towards the targeted baseboard and use a rocking of the forearm about the elbow to toss the penny so it lands like a dead cat (so to speak). The setting of the body's center of gravity over the feet is pretty important, even if you don't think about it. The rhythm of the forearm rock has to be tuned to what your eyes are telling you about distance, so the timing is critical even if you don't think about it. All human motion necessarily involves changing specific joint angles by the muscles on either side of the joint opening or closing or rotating the joint. In putting, while your hands or fingers may "sense" the distance (and this can be very effective), the hands and fingers really don't change in the thru-stroke. The wrists joints and knuckles aren't involved in the downstroke. The torso moves about the spine, and for many the upper arms moves and thus open or closed the arm pitts, and even for some the elbows change and thus the forearms move, and even for Bob Heintz the wrists change in the forward stroke so his hands are involved in distance control.

In my preferred technique, the wrists do not change at all, especially in the through-stroke. Nor do my arm pits open or close. So my torso controls distance. The technique that Todd Sones teaches involves a little arm action, so for his approach the torso plus the arms is involved in distance control.

And in my study of the brain, I think that tempo plus targeting sets the size of the controlling movement "instinctively." You and I seem to agree wholeheartedly on that! There is no conscious effort to get the backstroke a certain length or to move the putter a certain speed or hit the ball with a certain hardness of impact. Instead, one relies upon a stable tempo and the sole thought "role the ball all the way into the hole" using you natural athletic talent. This instinct sets the backstroke length and then the tempo takes it from there to make a smooth, even stroke with a natural acceleration from top of backstroke to bottom and then a natural deceleration from bottom to top of followthru.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
The PuttingZone.com
http://puttingzone.com
Golf's most advanced putting instruction.

Geoff,

I should clarify my idea of the action of the right hand, fingers and wrist from my view, also sorry about the duel post I tried to correct a couple not all errors, maybe you can delete one of them.

1. It is rather pre-set at address. I do not hinge or add a set if you will to the right wrist on the back stroke nor on the through stroke. I too have tried via Roberts and some others this adding of wrist set, cock or additional set and I end up usally breaking down through the stroke. The problem for me anyway with breaking down through the stroke is I do not know which way the break down will effect the putt. Some putts seem where I have broken down go left, others right, some short and some with too much speed. So I pre-set or it is pre-set at address and then I retain it through the stroke. I mean I do not want it to feel wooden or overly firm etc. But I do want it firm enough to retain its address position or natural position obtained at address through the entire stroke. Forward and back.

2. Further on the right wrist I do not use forward-press the wrist either. The forward press really throws my stroke off. I found for me that after using the Pelz clips that the ball position for me that allows me the best and most consistent contact is forward rather then in the middle. Rather I set the feet less then shoulder width apart and have the ball close to opposite the left heel. I mean to me Gary Player is a pretty good putter and he probably breaks allot rules or maybe all the rules but he looks like he deliberitey breaks down through the ball, but I have never looked at his stroke via video or if you can see it there. I did read some stuff on Bob Heintz that you wrote I agree that I bet in slow motion at impact he is not broken down.



3. You have helped me too clarify a number of things in your explaination, regarding distance control. Targeting and calibrating the motion. I agree with your coin toss illustration. It’s a similar concept to throwing darts where you fix some what the right arm then hold in your finger tips sense the feel for the shot, then rock the hand towards some what towards the target to gather the sense for the amount motion, and you do allow some arm movement in that as well.

4. I geuss what I am talking about is the sequence of the control of the motion for distance control. What I am thinking I do is let the right hand with the pre-set wrist be the focal point of gathering the sense’s of the information and try to let the rest be dictated to instinctively as you mention. SO the senses is a effort to manage putting by having the right hand have a greater degree of focus for being in control. In another way I try not to have the left hand have a function that is to great a role rather or an equal role, its a different role. Its role to me is to assist in support of the putter so the brain can send information back and forth to the rest of the supporting members of the body involved. I think what your telling me is there is allot more going on in calibration then just the fingers and the mind. It just seems to me that the mind is used to and upper most wants to communicate with the right fingers and hand. It just seems to me that one part needs to be allowed to be more in control of the sequence and process then the others, for me that’s the preset right hand and input starting with the right fingers. Its not that there not involved they are but just not equally, and with the same sequence and priority.

5. Your explantion of the. “stable tempo and the sole thought "role the ball all the way into the hole" using you natural athletic talent.” Its funny my best mental thought on putting is I say to myself is “just roll it”, “putt a good roll on it”. I find this downgrades the importance of the putt and that I focus more on stroking the ball and if it goes in it goes in, Ive done as good as I can do on the putt and lets see what happens.

6. Tempo is an interesting item and somewhat mysterious I guess. Allot has been written on it. My take on tempo is not on the tempo it self but what it does. I think why tempo is important in putting is that it quiets, relaxes and settles one down to not interfere with the natural calibration process, sequence and targeting sequence. I remember a few years ago reading a study on college batting which determined that for the mind to adjust to the next throw by a pitcher it needed a specific time between pitches I think it was like 8 seconds something like that. They did test after test and determined an average time necessary to for the batter to adjust and compute the next swing for the next pitch. Tempo to me is something like adjusting a radio to a station number too much to the left or right of the station number there is too much static and extra noise. Dialed in eliminates the excess static or interference. Tempo to me quiets all the disparate members of the body and eliminates static noise so natural athletic ability can hear the right messages and send information to the right areas and in the right sequence. It would interesting to know roughly how much time is optiminal for the mind to compute the right distance of the putt for example, 3-5 seconds etc…? I find a longer look helps or 3-5 shorter looks I have actually counted then and 3-5 looks then let it go works for me. DL 3 takes 1 longer look then lets it go, he worked on that I think he needs more looks 2-3 not one longer look etc.

7. So summarizing I believe in a retained pre-set right wrist throughout the stroke. I also believe in the sequence of the right hand and fingers being high in the priority list of providing the inputting/receving feed back to the brain for targeting, distance control and natural instincts and hopefully tempo can quiet stuff down.

After reading your great insights I think we are close in our assements, I just am lack experience of explaining this stuff. You may prefer the shoulder or the forearm methods possibly a little more then I do maybe not. I just like to focus on the right hand verses anything else in the sequence.


I am going to create another post to see your ideas on the psychological approach to putting and golf generally but more importantly how you practice it.


Garry