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Todds Sones and Distance from Ball in Setup

March 19 2003 at 9:29 AM
  (Login puttmagic)
from IP address 172.155.18.123

Hi Geoff

On your website under putters/fittings there is an article entitled Love Connection by Scott Kramer.
The last paragraph reads:

"Long and Short of It

Golf Magazine Top 100 Teacher Todd Sones recently studied the putting habits of 50 tour pros. ... Sones discovered that the average Tour player ... stands 23 inches from the putter head."

As you are obviously familiar with this article and most probably know Todd Sones personally I was wondering where I read up on or obtain a copy of this study. I am confused with the statement "and stands 23 inches from the putter head.

Presumably this is a measurement from some part of the hand (tip of fingers) to the ground when the player is over the putt. I cannot imagine a player' line of toes being 23 inches from the putter head.

It's over 100 degrees here in Perth and humid so I am happy to trade you.

Kind regards

Neville
Oz


 
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(Login puttmagic)
172.155.18.123

Reconciling this with Todd's Book

March 19 2003, 9:36 AM 

Dear Neville,

Thanks for pointing that out to me. The full quote is:

GOLF Magazine Top 100 Teacher Todd Sones recently studied the putting habits of 50 Tour pros. As a result of his findings, he now encourages his students to shorten the length of their putters. Sones discovered that the average Tour player uses a putter 33 or 34 inches long, stands 5-foot-11, has knuckles that hang 31 inches above the ground, and stands 23 inches from the putter head. When chipping, the same pro stands 30 inches from the head of his wedge. As Sones asks, "When you consider that you're standing seven inches closer to the ball at address with a putter, why are putters only a half-inch shorter than a wedge?"

http://www.golfspan.com/features/features_love.asp

I do know Todd and consider him not only a friend but one of the top putting experts alive today, and think his book "Lights Out Putting" is excellent in every respect. I met with Todd briefly at the January 2003 PGA Merchandise Show in Orlando where the Tommy Armour company was debuting his new putter fitting system. [ See PGA.com - Armour unveils putter fitting system - The Todd Sones Tri-Measure Custom Putter Fitting System, 12 Feb 2003, http://golf.about.com/cs/equipmentreviews/bb/bybputter.htm]. I have reread his book (glad I did, too!) and examined it closely to get a better understanding of what exactly he says about distance of feet from the ball. Here's what I see:

In every picture of his setup, Todd emphasizes "eyes above the ball" and putter lie plus hands below shoulders defines distance back from the ball. The shoulders usually end up directly above the balls of the feet. This setup almost always equates to the center of the balls of his feet being about two putterhead lengths back from the center of the ball -- perhaps just a smidgen more. A typical putterhead is 4.5 inches, so we are talking about 9-10 inches from the inside of the ball to the middle of the balls of the feet.

The trouble in reconciling Todd's book with the above quote is that there are different ways to measure the distance from ball to feet. That is: center of ball or inside edge back to 1) front of big toe; 2) balls of feet; 3) ankles; 4) heel; or 5) back of heel. I measure from inside edge of ball back to the balls of the feet. This is because this particular distance corresponds with the distance between the eye pupils and the center of the shoulder sockets in normal human proportions, which works great with a balanced setup posture to get the eyes above the ball or nearly so. I regard two putterhead lengths as a minimum distance from the ball, and often add just a little more for balance and comfort.

What I think Todd is referring to in the above paragraph is a way of measuring from the center of the ball to the ankles, which is really where the "body" vertically meets the ground in normal upright posture. If you laid a 35-inch putter down with the sole at the ball, Todd is saying the pros' ankles are just inside the bottom of the 10-inch grip material on the handle.

In my mind, this is a little too far back, and helps explain why pros aren't really attaining their potential on the dancefloor!

I hope this explains things.

Here's Todd's book: Todd Sones and David DeNunzio,

Lights Out Putting: A Mind, Body, and Soul Approach to Golf's Game Within a Game (Contemporary Books 2000) - accessible from my "Books" page, http://www.puttingzone.com/books.html#S.
--
Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Theorist and Instructor

The PuttingZone.com
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(Login puttmagic)
172.169.169.148

Your Setup Article

March 20 2003, 7:21 AM 

Dear Geoff

Once more thank you for your reply on Todd Sones. I have now ordered his book. Actually your latest article on Feet-to-Ball Setup answered much of my query. [Pick Up the Quarter, http://puttingzone.com/MyTips/quarter.html]. Keep those articles coming, they are a great help to me in understanding the ins and outs of putting.

Kind regards,

Neville
Oz

 
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