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Adjusting Lie angle

February 21 2005 at 1:49 AM
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Hi Geoff
I would like to draw on your experience in custom fitting the lie angle of a putter to match the setup that you recommend for an effective putting stroke.
I was re-reading Bernard Langer's book on Putting. It reads "in order to produce the feeling of a straight-line approach to short putting two things are essential if you are going to use a wrist-free pendulum stroke. First you should use a putter whose shaft sits upright so your hands, and in particular your left hand, are held fairly high. The higher your hands at address the more naturally the putter head should move back and through in a straight line. Secondly, your putter head path will more naturally follow a straight line if you keep your head and neck wll over the ball in a horizontal position, even though you should probably aim for a fairly upright address position".
I also re-read your reply to my email Best Lie Angle dated August 10, 2004.
I appreciate, as demonstrated by your Popeye the Putter, that the angle of the shaft is irrelevant to moving your putter head back and forward in a straight line as this movement is controlled by your shoulders. The length of the shaft no doubt is the most common custom fitting adjustment so that the position of the eyes can be over or just inside the ball with the arms hanging naturally. My questions to you are as follows:
1. Most putters have a standard lie angle of 71 or 72 degrees, with some manufacturers offering 2 degrees upright or 2 degrees flat on a custom order. How often do you find yourself recommending a customised lie angle other than standard, or does it make little difference what the lie angle is as long as the length of the putter is correct?
2. When you do bend a putter, what equipment do you use or recommend or do you send the putter off to a club fitter?
Kind regards
Nev
Perth
Oz

 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
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24.167.140.53

Lie Angle and Hands Positioning

February 22 2005, 8:49 AM 

Dear Neville,

The lie angle makes a difference in how the hands are positioned on the handle. There are two aspects about hand position to note: height on handle, and orientation angle onto handle.

Assuming the putter is soled flatly on the surface and that the length of the putter is sufficient to project the handle back to the hanging hands, the lie angle has the following effects:

If the lie angle is the SAME as the angle formed by the upper arms and the forearms for the specific golfer, then there is NO adjustment of the orientation of the naturally hanging hands to conform the inside of the palms onto the handle. The "lifeline" of the hanging hands will match the line of the forearms and the line of the forearms and lifeline of the palms will match the angle of the handle. The golfer's lifeline angle to level ground and gravity when the arms hang naturally in the chosen setup posture is the ideal putter lie, promoting no adjustment to hold the putter and a no-hands stroke. The reason the lifeline is at the angle it has to the forearm is due to the way the hands "hang off" the forearms in gravity most of the time. The hands and the upper arms both hang straight down in gravity, while the forearm hangs at a slight angle to gravity -- vertical (upper arm), angled (forearm), vertical (hands) body segments. The heavy "meat" of the thumb weighs down into the flesh of the palm to form the fold of the lifeline, which is vertical to gravity just like the upper arm is vertical most of the time.

By far, most off-the-shelf putters have a lie angle that is greater than the upper arm - forearm angle. For most golfers, in my experience so far, this angle is in the 10-16 degree range, whereas standard putter lies are 19 degrees.

When the putter lie exceeds the golfer's natural angle of the lifeline in reference to gravity and level ground, this forces the golfer to angle the wrists thumbs upward to form the hands onto the positioned handle. (The lifeline matches the lie of the putter but the forearm angle does not.) Otherwise, the putter gets lifted heel off the ground. The "low hands" position is needed to keep the sole of the putter flat on the ground.

When the putter lie is less than the natural angle of the lifeline, this forces the golfer to use "high hands" with the wrists cocked thumbs downward. (The lifeline again matches the putter lie but the forearm angle does not.) Otherwise, the golfer will be holding the putter toe-up off the ground. The "high hands" is needed to keep the sole flat to the ground.

[This is slightly complcated when the golfer soles the putter flatly on a tilted surface (ball above or below feet), as conforming the body and setup to the flattened putter than takes the whole system slightly out of the lines of gravity -- but that's another story.]

The lie angle also affects height of hands on the handle, but this depends on length and distance of putter head out from feet. Assuming the putter head is out a good distance from the feet for arm and hands hanging naturally and for head-eye posture, the lie can make the handle too low for the hands or too high in terms of elevation above the ground (not angle presentation of handle to hands). his factor really has to do with whether the center of the palms ends up on the vibrational "node" of the putter, where vibrations from impact cancel out, and the balancing of the putter in the hands -- too low and the putter has too heavy a dynamic swingweight "feel", too high and the putter has too light a dynamic swingweight "feel", in comparison to the static swingweight of the putter.

What does this matter? It sort of depends on how "dead hands" the golfer can putt. The less the golfer pays attention to or is aware of his hands once the setup and grip are adopted, the less the wrist/hand orientation to the putter handle matters. If the hand orientation bugs the golfer, then it's a problem of some significance.

For a real "dead-hands" golfer, the hand orientation and grip pressure do not change on the handle in the least during the stroke, and the golfer is trained not to pay attention to the hands unless the stroke makes them feel something, which is a bad sign. No feel in the hands, no changes in the hand muscles, the same orientation to the handle at all points in the stroke movement, no initiation of movement with the hands or arms, and not even much awareness (ideally) of the position of the hands as the stroke progresses -- that's a no-hands golfer. So a real dead-hands golfer can pretty easily adapt to some minor lie-hands mismatch with a modest tonic muscle tone in the hands and wrists that gets folded into the set grip pressure like folding an egg into cake batter. Once set, the golfer just says no changes" and makes the stroke.

But it's an individual thing. Some golfers need more training to get past hands issues.

I personally don't bend people's putters myself, but refer them to a clubmaker. In the future I will probably do that, and there are several brands of equipment to choose from, including:

Golfsmiths Adjustable Putter Bender,



the Golsmith Ultimate Putter bender,



the Golf Mechanix Putter Bender,



the Maltby Golfworks Economy Putter bender,



the Mitchell Golf Putter Bending machine,



the Scotty Cameron Putter Bender,



and others.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Theorist and Instructor
Geoff Mangum's PuttingZone
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