Hey Geoff

I recently stumbled upon the Balance Certified web site and I'm curious if you have any opinions on the benefits of counter balancing putters. I know that Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus, George Knudson etc used to counterbalance their clubs. Are there any quantifiable benefits to counterbalancing or is it more of a personal feel thing with perhaps some bogus science attached?

Regards
James (obleft)

Dear James,

Check out today's news about Balance-Certified's testing of driver results with average golfers in the 2-25 handicap range -- over 83% got longer distance.

I'l try to get Jeff Lindner to explain the system on this Forum!

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Theorist and Instructor
Geoff Mangum's PuttingZone
Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction.

Over 945,000 visits and growing strong ...

518 Woodlawn Ave
Greensboro NC 27401
(336) 340-9079 cell

geoff@puttingzone.com

AIM: puttmagic
Yahoo!IM: puttmagic
MSN IM: geoff@puttingzone.com
ICQ#: 277025051

The link to this testing is not all that easy to find, so here is the link.

Here is the report text without graphics (see the link above for that):

Shaft Weighting System Report
Testing Balance-Certified Golf Inc.’s Pro-Balance Shaft Tuning System, Part 1

The concept of adding weight to the grip end of putters, irons, and woods has been around for a long time. Tour professionals have known for years that a little lead tape under the grip will change the club’s feel. By definition, the term counterweight refers to "an equivalent weight or force". While practically this can be achieved by placing lead tape under a grip, the technique is time consuming, inaccurate, and extremely difficult to optimize for a given golfer’s swing. A couple of years ago we met Jeff Lindner, President of Balance-Certified Golf, Inc. Lindner is a former NASA research scientist and his company produces a product called the "Pro-Balance Shaft Tuning System" that provides an elegant engineered solution to counter weighting putters, irons, and woods. While we think it is impossible to test feel, we set out to conduct a test that assesses the performance gain obtained by incorporating the Pro-Balance system into a set of drivers and testing them with real golfers. The objective of the test was to evaluate changes in performance resulting from the installation and adjustment of the Pro-Balance Shaft Tuning System in drivers. Part 1 of this three-part report focuses on the distance and ball velocity results from the test. The second part of the report will focus on the accuracy results and the combination of the Pro-Balance system with the Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue shaft while the third part will analyze how the system actually changes ball flight.


Approach


The test was conducted at the Richland Golf Center in Huntsville, Alabama. Data was acquired from six golfers of various skill levels and swing types. The golfer’s handicap indexes ranged from 2 to 21 while their swing speed varied from 87 to 114 mph. A Vector launch monitor equipped with a Laser swing speed analyzer was used to monitor ball trajectory and club dynamics. The test drivers were provided by Balance Certified Golf each installed with the Pro-Balance system. Each golfer was fitted with an appropriate flex club and allowed to thoroughly warm up prior to data acquisition. Measurements were first acquired without the Pro-Balance system installed in the drivers (i.e., weight insert #0). The Pro-Balance weight inserts were subsequently installed and tested in random order. Three swings were analyzed and averaged with the Pro-Balance system configured at three different weight insert settings (#1, #2, and #3).


Result
The following table summarizes the results obtained from our conduct of the test session.

Summary

The test provided some interesting results. First, it clearly shows that each golfer’s ball flight could be fine tuned using the Pro-Balance system. We found that each golfer exhibited optimal performance at a specific weight insert (see chart). We also found that the optimal weight insert varied from golfer to golfer and even club to club. Finally, each player was required to try the different weight inserts to determine his most desirable ball flight characteristics. The optimized Pro-Balance equipped drivers increased driver distance by an average of 14.61 yards and increased ball velocity by an average of 4.83 mph when compared to the non-equipped club. While on the surface these results may seem staggering, we feel the results are likely due to the agreeable combination of the new ProLaunch Blue shaft and the Pro-Balance System. Based upon our initial testing, we found that the Pro-Balance Shaft Tuning System from Balance-Certified Golf has real potential to offer golfers a new level of custom fitting.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Theorist and Instructor
Geoff Mangum's PuttingZone
Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction.

Over 945,000 visits and growing strong ...

518 Woodlawn Ave
Greensboro NC 27401
(336) 340-9079 cell

geoff@puttingzone.com

AIM: puttmagic
Yahoo!IM: puttmagic
MSN IM: geoff@puttingzone.com
ICQ#: 277025051


 

Thanks Geoff

I look forward to your Q and A with Mr. Lindner regarding his system and its possible benefits to putting.

Interestingly, although his site refered to a fitting system, the local distributors here in Canada did not know of it and described a trial and error method of fitting.

The test on the link you provided mentioned the harmonious combination of weighting and the Pro Launch shaft. I guess that could mean that the weights dont work for everyone or every pre existing shaft , club combination.

Thanks
James (Obleft)

Obleft,

What part of Canada are you in? I think I had a simialar experience with a Calgary representative. I did not notice any discernable improvement in the trial testing using this balance certified in the driver. The process was more trial oriented which did not give me the best impression on the physics behind it.

I do like the feel of the extra weight in the putter though.

Hi David

I called two of the Toronto area distributors (home of the Stanley Cup---well we keep it here at the hall of fame then present to other cities at the end of the year).

Did you notice a different feel at impact with the driver? More distance? What do you like about the counter balanced putter?

Best regards
James (obleft)

Here are some quick thoughts on the discussion:

-Check out the report at Balance-Certified Golf to make up your mind
about the technology being real or bogus. (BTW, no offense taken. You
guys have been misled for far too long by golf equipment manufacturers.)
One out of 10 folks report very little change in putting performance.
Three out of 18 report little change in the drivers. It is always
possible that any given customer could be a member of the minority. Our
fitters are not instructed to "make the sale no matter what." If the
customer is not 100% on-board with measurable results, then we would
rather him not buy the product. With this logic, we have received
extremely high consumer satisfaction ratings. Interesting that BCG is
just about the only company in Golf with this approach. We find that this
approach allows customers to decide for themselves. Thus they are not
beat over the head with "Golf Equipment Magic." Results is the key.

- The physics behind the performance gain in putters and drivers is
similar. There is a lot going on with the structural dynamics of the
club, but timing is key. The "flow of motion" is smooth when the balance
is optimized. This results in better control and more center hits.

- The fitters are growing into our processes. It takes time to learn the
physics and they like to prove it to themselves as they fit customers. We
are constantly learning from our fitters too...

- The Pro Launch is a good shaft. However, as long as the shaft fits the
user, perturbations in ball flight parameters can almost always be
measured. We have been using several UST shafts lately with extremely
good results. UST has a great engineering team.

- BTW, look for big progress for BCG in the Canada market this year.
There are a bunch of good golfers up there...Note that BCG does have have
a referral program...

Jeff Lindner
Balance-Certified Golf

Hi Jeff

Thanks for getting back to us so quickly. I'm glad you didn't take offence as none was intended. As you know, I used " bogus science" in posing a question not in forming an opinion.

I should mention that the fitters here in Canada that I talked to both said that the product was new to them and they would look into a fittting "system".

Tell me then. Are you saying that there is a fitting system that rules out the vagaries of a trial and error fitting? Also, am I correct in thinking that if a golfer is properly fitted for the correct shaft prior to adopting your system then the benefits of counter balancing will be maxamized and the shaft will still stand as the correct shaft for that individual? Or could your system change the individuals shaft fitting results?

One of the nice things about your system is it's relative cost effectiveness and the ease of installation or removal. I am going to give it a try for sure. I'm just wondering how to get properly fit and if it will change the spin or launch angle of my pre existing shaft /club combo.

Regards
James (OBleft)

Thanks for your kind remarks James. In response to your questions:

Yes we have a fitting system and a process. It kinda depends on the tools
your Pro has available at your local shop. The key is to record your
results as you go so you can reach an optimized solution in a step by step
process. If your shop has a launch monitor available, try to get some
time on it.

Usually, when a shop first takes on BCG's products, they go through an
initial period of experimentation to prove to themselves that the results
are real. It does not take very long for the Pros to become very
proficient at the fitting process. As I stated before, if the system does
not work for you, don't buy it.

Yes you are correct...if you are playing the wrong shaft, you will not
achieve the maximum potential that the system can provide.

We see launch angle and back spin deviations in most all of our players.
There is a lot going on with shaft loading and release timing here. Just
give it a shot and see what you think. Hope that helps...

FYI, Tom Jenkins has won $3,528,965 playing BCG's hardware exclusively
since April of 2002.

Best Regards, Jeff Lindner

First let me say I am not a fan of Jeff or his "golf Club balancing system"

I have tried it and tested it and found no true improvement. The testing method id flawed and at best just a guess.

Maybe they shoud buy some time on an Iron Byron and get some honest test results.

I would suggest that anyone tempted to squander their money on this system should spend some time on the range or get a few lessons.

Junk science and hitting a few balls during a tricked up test prove nothing. If this system really does what it claims, then why dosen't every pro on tour have it installed in their clubs??

Just my 2 cents. Jeff, anytime youo want to conduct an honest test give me a call I'll set it up

Chuck
American Putter