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Two Tee drill

April 28 2005 at 10:34 PM
 
from IP address 141.168.120.83

Hi Geoff
I want to call on your knowledge of physics.
It seems to be accepted science that the putter face angle has the greatest influence on the direction the ball takes on contact. Pelz mentions 83%, but I don't know if this is a guess. Hence the importance of squaring the putterface to the intended line at point of contact. (Don Pooley's two tee drill)
Now in a vertical stroke the putterface retains its orientation to the target through the impact area whereas in a tilted stroke the putterface angle closes to the inside even though it is still square to the putter path.
Taking the example of a standard putterface and head weight, say a 10 foot putt on a medium paced green, with a centered sweetspot contact, how far in distance does the putterface still have an influence on the direction of the ball? There must be some dwell time when the ball is slightly compressed on the putterface, but it then escapes the influence of the putter blade as it goes on its way. Must the putterface still be square half an inch (or an inch) beyond the physical location of impact or will the ball be long gone at this distance? Do you know of any high speed photo shots that measure the exact length where the ball and putterface are still in contact following impact, and therefore by definition still influencing the direction.
Best wishes
Neville
Oz

 
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24.167.140.53

Putter-Ball Impact Span

April 29 2005, 9:20 AM 

Dear Neville,

Dr Norman Lindsay has studied "dwell time" of putter-ball impact, and concludes that the combination of factors of ball cover, putter face material, putter head mass, and velocity of putter head at impact give "dwell times" in the range of 0.6 ms to 1.0 ms for a 10-foot putt on a Stimp-10 green. (The time is ms, or milleseconds, 1/1,000th of a second, 0.001 s.) The ball velocity off the bottom of the Stimpmeter is about 77 inches per second (ips).

Using these numbers as the outer-limit case, we can calculate the maximum span of ball-putter contact with the simple formula Distance = Speed x Time. That is, Impact Span = 77 ips x 0.001 s = 0.077 inches.

This "back of the envelope" calculation assumes that the putter head is moving at 77 ips at the beginning of impact and stays at this speed throughout impact. In actuality, this 77 ips is the ball speed after impact, so we are sort of guessing about the putter head speed during impact. The putter head slows during impact about 20%. But for our rough calculations, it's a fair guess that the putter head velocity throughout impact is just 77 ips.

This span of 0.077 inches (also about 0.2 cm) is about 1/13th of an inch.

This image of an olive dropping into a martini shows three successive images at once, taken 1 ms apart: first red, then green, then blue. This shows how far the splash droplets move in 1 ms from the red droplets to the green droplets, or from the green droplets to the blue droplets. The martini droplets are not moving at 77 ips, but they are mvoing close enough to suggest the smallness of the ball-putter contact span. The ball-putter impact span is grossly on the same order of magnitude -- perhaps one fifth or so of the droplet span.

So why bother with the putter face orientation and putter path outside this (tiny) impact span? My answer is because the human body and brain need a span of movement closer to the scale of the body in order to manage the timing for distance control with the required precision. That is, a span on the order of the size of the human hand, for example, is needed to get the timing right. This has to do with the size and responsiveness of human muscles and tissue and stretch reflexes and nerve timing patterns.

If your sole concern is line or direction, and not distance control, then you can see the criticaliy of this tiny span in something of a circus trick. Simply place a positive-loft putter right up against the equator of a ball and then suddenly jerk the putter straight up -- this will send the ball off on a line perfectly the same as the aim of the putter face. A vertical jerk up has no "twist" motion in it, so the putter face does not change out of square. The loft on the putter makes contact on the ball just below the equator coming up and sends the ball off straight. The rouble is that this requires a ballistic motion, an all-or-nothing jerk. There is basically not enough motion to allow for distance control.

The point of the two-tee drill is mostly about impact squareness, but it should not be used in the belief that impact squareness is all that matters. On short putts, where the line is critical and distance control takes a seat way back in the bus, you can get away with much greater emphasis on impact dynamics. But overall, the span for impact should be considered to extend from about 1-2 inches back of the ball to 3-4 inches past the ball. The back of the span, as I teach it, is where the pivot and center of body and bottom of stroke all coincide and the stroke starts upward. The front end of the span is about where your lead foot's big toe points out to the putt line in an L-shape or Carpenter's Square. f the putter face orientation is kept square thru this zone and the sweetspot or path kept online thru this zone, along a slightly rising trajectory, the ball will roll straight and ball position is not critical. The body motion that I think best promotes this is a lifting of the lead shoulder frame up past the bottom of the stroke into the back of the ball, with the pivot in the base of the neck rotating like a door knob but not wandering about or following after the putter head, and with the shoulder frame staying parallel to the intended line of the putt as it rises vertically. This action "casts" the putter head square down the line without any further body action, and especially without hands or forearms changing orientation.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Theorist and Instructor
Geoff Mangum's PuttingZone
http://puttingzone.com>
Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction.

Over 1,010,000 visits and growing strong ...

518 Woodlawn Ave
Greensboro NC 27401
336.790.8176 home
336.340.9079 cell





    
This message has been edited by aceputt from IP address 24.167.140.53 on Apr 29, 2005 8:29 PM


 
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141.168.120.83

Putter-Ball Impact Span - more questions

April 29 2005, 9:47 PM 

Thanks Geoff for your detailed explanation.
1. Am I correct in understanding that in order to encompass both direction, and a feel for distance, the putterface should be square from the bottom of the stroke, that is 2 inches behind the ball, through the impact area of 1/13th of an inch, and then beyond for 3 to 4 inches? A distance of 6 inches all up.
2. An off center hit affects the distance that a putt will travel because the mass of energy is less than optimum. It also affects somewhat the direction of the putt because of a slight twisting of the putter blade. Am I correct in assuming that this twisting can only occur during the millisecond moment when the ball and putterface are in contact?
3. How much spin does the putter path cutting across the ball affect its direction? Does the change of direction occur immediately or only when the ball starts to slow down at the end of its journey? I don't understand how they estimate that the putter path is responsible for directional errors of about 17%. Your example of a putter path moving diagonally across the ball with the putter face held open (a la Billy Mayfair) implies that the combination of these two errors cancels out any side spin. Am I correct in this assumption?
I have visited the website of Dr Norman Lindsay, but my grasp of the scientific data presented is limited by a lack of education in physics. Have you tried the putter he has designed?
Kind regards
Neville
Oz

 
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24.167.140.53

Impact Span and Hit vs Hitless Stroke

April 30 2005, 11:11 AM 

Dear Neville,

Responding to your questions:

1. Am I correct in understanding that in order to encompass both direction, and a feel for distance, the putterface should be square from the bottom of the stroke, that is 2 inches behind the ball, through the impact area of 1/13th of an inch, and then beyond for 3 to 4 inches? A distance of 6 inches all up.

Yes. This span is about the same scale as the human hand, and is more or less the minimum stroke size in which the golfer will have substantial distance control in the putt. Anything shorter than this is one of those "just start the ball" strokes on a slick downhill putt at Augusta National.

The reason I advise keeping the putter square thru this impact zone has to do with optimizing the putting. While it is true that some golfers can use a gating stroke path thru this area and hit lots of putts right where they aim the putter (or where they intend the ball to go, regardless of the putter's aim), at the critical moment of truth the putter needs to be square and moving online or else the golfer has to inculcate a repeating combination of across-the-line path plus face open or closed, always in the same manner. No matter what anyone says about how good they can be with this gating path and the face opening and closing, this approach makes ball position, timing, and stroke consistency critical. It puts an unnecessary stress on fine-motor skills and hand-eye coordination for each and every putt. In contrast, moving the putter squarely down the line is biomechanically simple to perform (even if some find it tricky to teach or to learn), essentially eliminates ball position as a concern, expands the realm for acceprtable and effective timing, and reduces stress for repeating the stroke enormously.

The real difference between a gating stroke and a down-the-line stroke is between a hit stroke and a hitless stroke. The gating stroke is all about impacting the back of the ball to send the ball rolling off at a target. The down-the-line stroke is a gesture of the putter squarely along the line in which the straight rolling of the ball is a mere side consequence of good form.

In a hit stroke, the human brain is chiefly concerned with anticipating and timing impact dynamics when the putter face meets the back of the ball. The actual impact is over so quickly and the movement of the putter at this time is so swift in relation to the eyes' ability to track and monitor the dynamics that most people think they are a lot better at this on a consistent basis than they really are. Everything of importance is out there at the end of the stick of the putter, and managing what happens out there is a try-whatever-works sort of deal. In contrast, when the task is to make the same straight down-the-line gesture each time, the focus moves into the body and the body movement, with the arms and hands simply holding the putter steadily, without participation in any action at the end of the stick. The whole motion is a simple body motion, only, and not a moving of the putter head except incidentally. This way, there is no need to anticipate or manage the brief moment of impact. It is a very liberating and freeing way to putt straight.

Also, a hit stroke is usually accompanied by a swift closing of the putter face thru impact, or at least an out-to-in path in the stroke. This is because the anticipation of the precise moment of impact causes a very subtle "lunging" action in the golfer's total body into the back of the ball to "make sure" impact is done as intended. This subtle "lunging" action is not accompanied by concerns for the form of the stroke, and so defaults to the "around the feet" pulling of the putter and the rotating closed of the forearms and hands as if reaching thru the ball. Golfers who manage this last-moment inside pulling / closing action well often do so by learning poor aiming habits in which the target is believed to be to the outside of its true location, so the pulling / closing action ends up being no-harm, no-foul. If the golfer has an out-to-in stroke path, he learns over time to open the face in a "cut stroke." If the golfer uses a gating stroke that gets pretty square right before impact, he tends to rotate the putter closed a little more quickly thru impact when he is making a "hit" stroke, and if he doesn't do it consistently, he leaves the ball out to the outside. This pulling / closing action also trains this sort of golfer to aim to the outside. In both cases, consistency suffers and general technique degrades. If the golfer's sense of timing or hand-eye coordination or vague "feel" changes from day to day or over the course of years, as it inevitably will, the golfer gets left stranded with a goofed-up technique and no understanding of how to get back on a consistent, accurate track.

Keeping the span of the impact zone about as large as a hand in size is a way to train the golfer out of the hit stroke and into the gestural stroke, for purposes of optimizing accuracy and consistency over the long haul.

2. An off center hit affects the distance that a putt will travel because the mass of energy is less than optimum. It also affects somewhat the direction of the putt because of a slight twisting of the putter blade. Am I correct in assuming that this twisting can only occur during the millisecond moment when the ball and putterface are in contact?

Yes.

3. How much spin does the putter path cutting across the ball affect its direction? Does the change of direction occur immediately or only when the ball starts to slow down at the end of its journey? I don't understand how they estimate that the putter path is responsible for directional errors of about 17%. Your example of a putter path moving diagonally across the ball with the putter face held open (a la Billy Mayfair) implies that the combination of these two errors cancels out any side spin. Am I correct in this assumption?

The side spin washes out pretty quickly due to interaction of the ground with the bottom of the ball. The side spin doesn't really get real traction in this washout time so as to change the ball's direction. You would have to spin the bejeebers out of the ball with side spin to see much effect on the forward line of roll. People with a pronounced cut spin stroke sometimes see a little effect on the ball's direction of roll a little way into the putt, but not often.

The physics of oblique sideways putter path across the intended line of putt has been discussed by CB Daish in his book The Physics of Ball Games, section 14.7. The formula is

tan(angle of roll off intended line) = 2(M +m)/7M(1 + e) x tan(path angle across intended line)

Using a putter head with mass M 7 times that of the ball's mass m (which is fairly typical), and using a coefficient of restitution e of the ball during impact of about 0.8, for a path error of 10 degrees out to in, the resulting ball roll error is:

arctan[2(8 +1)/7*8(1 + 0.8) x tan(10)] = 1.8 degree line error in ball roll.

That's about 18% of the path error. As Daish says, "So the angle [ball rolling offline] is clearly much smaller than the angle [of path error]."

With respect to a face-angle error at impact, the situation is similar to delivering a blow with a lofted club -- the direction or path of the club is straight online but the striking face is angled off line. If the face is twisted to the outside (open) by 10 degrees, the blow imparts two components of motion to the ball -- one perpendicular to the face of the putter by the term Vcos(face angle error) (with V being the velocity along the intended line), and the other a motion of sliding sideways on the face of the putter by the term Vsin(face angle error). The cosine of 10 degrees is 0.98, while the sine of 10 degrees is 0.17. Hence, the component of ball motion is more off line. The net effect of both the offline (cosine) component and the sliding sideways (sine) component is that the ball heads offline with a 10-degree face twist about 8.3 degrees to the outside of the intended line, accompanied by a little side spin that soon washes out (see Daish section 14.11).

I have visited the website of Dr Norman Lindsay, but my grasp of the scientific data presented is limited by a lack of education in physics. Have you tried the putter he has designed?

No, but I have tried putters with similar design features. The requirement to impact the ball high on the face of the putter is a little contrary to the way I teach putting the middle of the stroke / stance and thereafter allowing the putter to rise into the back of the ball. In order to keep the impact point high on the face of a putter like Dr Lindsay's, it is necessary to play the ball fairly tight in close to the bottom of the stroke near the center of the stance and/or deliver the putter thru impact without its natural up-rising arc, either with a hands-ahead style or with a deliberate manipulation of the putter to keep it artificially low thru impact. This puts the spotlight right on whether this technique artifice (and the risks of inconsistency) are worth the gain in reduced skid. So far, my answer is "not usually." This particular trade-off needs some serious testing to sort out.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Theorist and Instructor
Geoff Mangum's PuttingZone
http://puttingzone.com
Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction.

Over 1,000,000 visits and growing strong ...

518 Woodlawn Ave
Greensboro NC 27401
336.790.8176 home
336.340.9079 cell





 
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