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Center Shafted vs. Heel Shafted?

February 25 2006 at 2:44 PM
Benjamin  (no login)
from IP address 65.131.150.146

What are supposed to be the advantages and disadvantages of a center shafted putter over a heel shafted putter? {or are there no pros or cons, just a matter of preference}

I've always used a heel shafted putter whether I was using a blade, a mallet or something in between. For some reason I just could never get used to the straight shaft going into the center of the putter head. After my nine holes on Thursday where I had four or five three putts (ended up with a 42 that should have been at least a 38) I decided to head to the pro shop with an open mind today.

Strange thing was that most of the putters they had in stock were center shafted so I figured what the heck...things couldn't get worse that three putts on about 50% of the holes could they.

So I took about 5 different center shafted putters out and had some good success with distance control and accuracy using 3 of the 5.

I'm just wondering if center shafted putters are geared towards a certain type of putter or if it is just a matter of taste.

Benjamin

 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
Forum Owner
24.167.140.53

Taste and Instincts

February 27 2006, 9:51 AM 

Dear Benjamin,

The key word here is "tastes." A taste is a habit. The Chinese eat dog meat. Some folks in South America eat bug larvae. Some folks in southeast Asia eat monkey brains.

Historically, putters were usually heel-shafted, mostly because other clubs are heel-shafted and also because the Brits (R&A) banned center-shafted putters for about 50 years. The humorous thing is that center-shafted putters now have such success in the market, that even some designers who previously swore never to make a center-shafted putter have jumped on the bandwagon after abandoning all self-respect and principle.

If you use a heel-shafted putter, the tool will teach you the "habit" of success with it, or else you will discard it. So if you keep the heel-shafted putter, its inherent physics has trained you into a habit. The habit consists partially of habitual patterns of perception and partially of patterns of movement and feelings. For example, a heel-shafted putter looks and feels a bit more like swinging a bat around your stance, with certain implications for how you perceive the stroke and ball impact, and how you expect things to look and feel in the movement. The instincts rely upon these habits.

If you use a center-shafted putter, the tool will teach you the "habit" of success with it, or else you will discard it. A center-shafted putter swings more vertically up thru a ball, unlike a baseball-style swing with a heel-shafted putter sideways thru a ball. This implies a different set of visual and kinesthetic "habits" in using the center-shafted putter.

You can use a heel-shafted putter with the same habits appropriate to a center-shafted putter if you add a trick or two, and vice versa. (Many if not most belly putters are center-shafted, yet swung around the stance more like a bat than a pendulum.) The bottom-line question is which is better, and what is required for you to unlearn inappropriate habits and to learn new, appropriate habits if you switch?

In my view the center-shafted putter is better in general than heel-shafted putters, because heel-shafted putters have physics in them that promote action of the putter separate and apart from what the golfer is deliberately intending. In particular, the typical hoseling and balancing of a heel-shafted putter promotes so-called "toe flow." This is an EXTRA opening of the putter going back that may or may not be matched coming forward. The physics of "toe-flow" is the added inertia in the stroke of the toe about the axis of the hosel. This physics opens the toe going back, and tends to KEEP the toe open coming thru impact. This doesn't make a lot of sense.

The golfer who gets trained by his heel-shafted putter has to learn how to manipulate the physics of the putter correctly. This obviously can be accomplished over time -- witness Ben Crenshaw. But why engage in a battle that is not compelled? Just don't get a heel-shafted putter. The center-shafted, face-balanced (or reality balanced) putter doesn't have these same tendencies from physics. Then the golfer's task in getting trained by the tool is a little easier and simpler.

Heel-shafted putters are an historical accident that some people seek to justify with a bogus rationale. What the physics really does is make the putter designer an unwitting partner in every stroke: you do this and the designer adds that. I prefer to putt alone.

So when you switch from heel-shafted to center-shafted, you get a slight unburdening, but you are temporarily stuck with old heel-shafted habits. It takes a while to learn the new "look and feel" of the center-shafted putter, and thus "acquire the taste" for the tool.

A compromise is a putter with the actual hoseling towards the heel, but for which the shaft AIMS at the center. These putters are face balanced, and appear to be heel-shafted, but are really center-shafted with heel-hoseling. This would be a good transition putter, allowing you to ease into the tool's training of you without a lot of contrast with old habits.

Keep your tastes -- just get rid of unhelpful physics.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist
PuttingZone
http://puttingzone.com
Golf's most advanced putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.

 
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Bejamin
(no login)
216.77.90.62

Thank you

February 28 2006, 10:41 AM 

Thank you for the information.

After reading your response it seems strange to me that you would see a face balanced putter with a heel shaft it it.

It seems that many say that face balanced putters are made for the straight back and straight through motion.

Why would you put the shaft in the heel (which seems to promote a rotating motion...like a door opening on it's hinges) if you are trying to go straight back and straight through?

It now seems to make more since (after reading your response) to have the shaft in the center of the putter which would make you more likely to go straight back and straight through as opposed to the "swinging hinge" type motion.

Thanks again for your response....it has really opened my eyes to the center shafted putter (a type of putter I've steered away from in the past).

I have been using a Taylor Made Rossa Mezza Monza heel shafted which I really love the feel of but haven't had much success with lately. I'm now going to order the center shafted version of it in order to make my putting easier and give me fewer three putts.

Thanks for your time, your advice, and your explanation.

Benjamin

 
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LT
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80.42.241.35

Re: Thank you

April 25 2006, 3:13 PM 

Whatever shafted putter you use, the golfer feels the sweetspot or the longitudinal center of gravity of the putter.

 
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donald
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65.95.164.199

re: putter head balance

April 27 2006, 2:29 PM 

Geoff:

Could you comment on putter heads balance somewhere between face-balanced and toe-down ... say a 50% or 45º toe-down putter. Are these partially unbalanced putter heads designed only for personal feel or is there some technical merit involved?

The longitudinal cg axis affects the stroke action while the putter head balance affects the face orientation within the stroke action. Does not the putter shaft lie angle also significantly affect the stroke action too?


 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
Forum Owner
88.107.167.174

Putter Head Balancing, Shaft Lie Angle, and Putter Head Stroke Path

April 28 2006, 9:30 PM 

Dear Donald,

The so-called "45-degree hangers" like the traditional Ping models of the 1970s and later have what Scotty Cameron dubbed "toe flow." (Scotty Cameron's putter designs are essentially "pretty Pings" from a physics point of view, at least until he went with the herd in the last 4-5 years and broke his oath never to make a center-shafted putter -- the Red-X line. Ping has done the same since the death of Karsten Solheim under the leadership of son John.)

The toe of these putters has slightly more mass in relation to the heel of the head as the head is hoseled and balanced to the shaft. The physics of this means that the toe has a higher moment of inertia about the vertical center of the putter head as balanced on the hosel. In the normal takeaway move, this extra inertia keeps the toe a little behind the rest of the putter head mass at the start, but then the momentum catches up and this makes the toe a wee bit more likely to exceed the point in the backstroke where the rest of the putter head wants to stop. The toe is out on the end of an "arm" from the hosel to the toe. It is sort of a little like holding a wooden rod that is 10 feet long by holding it at 4 feet from one end plus having a little glob of extra mass on the far end and then rotating this rod parallel to the ground back and thru. The "lag" in the toe happens at the start (stays more closed than otherwise), a little "exceeding the stopping place" then occurs at the arrival at the top of the backstroke (opens more than otherwise), lagging at the start again happens in the beginning of the forward stroke (stays more open than otherwise), and then the toe keeps going past where the rest of the putter would stop (closes more thru impact into the follow-thru than otherwise). The net effect of all this a putter face that arcs a little MORE open and closed than that caused purely by the stroke pattern of the golfer's body, with a slightly different timing in resquaring and a different feel in the hands.

These Ping-style heel-toe weighting schemes (45-degree hangers) were designed for the green conditions of the 1960s and early 1970s -- i.e., slower, shaggier, more inconsistent, more hilly contouring allowed by slower surfaces, etc. Then, a putting stroke was a lot closer to a full swing in terms of movement pattern, due to the need for more power than required today. Basically, the more robust putting stroke of these years required by the greens worked with heel-toe weighting to "help" the putter face open and close more at the toe end. But that only works with a certain putting style, so the design breeds a certain type of stroke to handle the tool effectively. The putter trains the golfer in its proper utilization.

The use of these patterns didn't especially hurt the results then, as the greens were more inconsistent generally, so you couldn't see the hurt as much as it shows today. Today, green conditions (especially on Tour) have improved so much that the old style of putting still lingers, but it is sort of like a wild west tough-guy walking around the the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts at some beaux arts gala. These greens improvements started in earnest in the mid-1980s and have changed a lot about putting and even the understanding and teaching of putting. In statistical studies of Tour putting since the beginning of the 1980s, studies have shown only an improvement of 0.5 strokes per round and almost the entirety of this is attributed solely to better greens, and none to better technique among today's pros. Today's greens are more suited to a less robust physics in the putter head motion and to more repeating and reliable big-muscle movement for simple accuracy. This current style is not "helped" by the heel-toe weighting so much as the weighting trains the golfer away from the less-robust stroke to a more arcing, snapping-shut stroke. And yet, the old style lingers and some believe there is good value in the designer factoring in his contributions to your stroke.

I believe that it comes down to the different feel in the hands. A center-shafted face-balanced putter (a heel-hoseled putter with a bend in the shaft that otherwise would enter the center of the putter head is also face-balanced) promotes a more minimalist stroke pattern without the "help" of the designer in changing the face orientation. This means that the hands "feel" less reaction generated by the putter head balancing during the stroke -- a simple, "dead hands" no-change feel in the hands from start to finish at least to impact). In contrast, the lagging toe's extra mass makes the putter handle torgue inside the "feel" of the golfer, and this lagging "feel" has to be learned and manipulated by the sensitive artistry of the golfer.

The new Swedish PuttingGuide and also Dean Thompson's Perfect Putting Machine are two stroke trainers that feature a carriage for the putter head that travels back and forth on two parallel rails. The orientation of the rails can be adjusted to correspond to a straight-back straight-thru stroke path and to different degrees of a tilted-plane path (described commonly as an arcing path). The advice of the arcing-path teachers is correct for what they teach: the important factor is to keep the putter face square to the path of the stroke (whatever it is), instead of the line of the putt. A straight-back style says in contrast: keep the putter face square to the path and it will be fine and square to the line as well, since the line and the path are one and the same. The confusion is that a tilted-plane (arcing) path has a stroke "plane" that is the same as the line of the putt, just tilted out of the vertical plane arising from the line of the putt. A few stroke training guides come with an attachment that connects the putter head to the tilted plane of the trainer so that the putter face cannot be other than square to the plane all the way back and thru (The IN-Putt, the PurStroke, the Easy Putt, and a few others.)

In BOTH stroke styles, the putter face really stays square to BOTH the line and the stroke path, if you envision the line of the putt in the same plane as the stroke. The "projection" of the putter face orientation at the top of the backstroke down onto the 2-D of the surface -- like a noontime shadow on the earth's equator -- will show a "shadow putter face" that is open to the line of the putt on the ground and this is interesting, but it is not produced by the golfer's pattern of movement, which is straight-back on a tilted plane of motion. The putter face will be square to the stroke plane ans the line of the putt in this tilted plane as well. So in EITHER the straight-back or arcing styles, there is no EXTRA toe-flow that should be occuring. And in both of these training aids, if you chose a putting movement pattern that adds toe-flow to open the putter face going back in the stroke, the putter head's toe will pop out of the way it is seated in the carriage, suggesting to you to try a different stroke pattern, as the one you have set in the device is not working well for what you have learned to do with the putter. When you adjust the rails to correspond to a movement pattern in which your movement combines with the stroke path of the device so that the putter head stays squarely seated in the carriage, without extra "help" from toe-flow, then that is a good combination for your existing stroke movement (even if I or someone else might want to improve your pattern!) The Swedish machine explicitly shows you the degree to which your toe flairs open on a dial. That's pretty neat!

So, today, either the straight-back or the arcing styles both teach a stroke in which the putter handle does NOT torque about inside the hands. (There may still be a sense of lagging the putter head as transmitted thru an un-torquing handle, but that is a touchy-feely style that is not well taught these days and is difficult to cotton onto to reproduce -- Loren Roberts' style of allowing the back swing to put a little wrist break into the right hand at the top of the backstroke for better "feel" coming down is an example, but this introduces issues of degree, hand orientation, and timing that may pose problems and take years to master.) The greens don't demand it, simplicity is better seved without it, and so the putter design has no need to train golfers to rely upon toe-flow.

But, many folks think it's a good thing. As I say, I believe it comes down to the inside feel of the hands going back and coming forward in the stroke. Some people need to feel the putter head "doing something" during the stroke -- either torquing in the hands as it opens and closes or lagging / exceeding the starting movements of the hands causing pressure inside the hands against one side more than the other or a "shearing" of the putter handle's surface out from under the orientation of the thumb tips on the handle as the putter head arcs more than the hands. This "feel" inside the hands generates their main cues for timing the stroke.

In my style, the shoulders generate the stroke (either straight-back or on a tilted plane) and the hands are truly "dead" and inactive. The timing cues come from there being no motion beyond that generated by the shoulders moving the putter head in gravity, especially coming down from the top of the backstroke -- no torquing, no lagging, no "change" inside the feel of the hands AT ALL. There is no mis-match in the motion of the hands as produced by the shoulder action and the putter head's motion as "mapped" by the setup posture, so the no-mis-match means "no feel" in the hands during the stroke -- no change at all.

The beauty of this style is that gravity's timing is perfectly predictable, known by the golfer's body, and repeats consistently, and using gravity's timing always corresponds to feeling "nothing" in the hands coming down. It is like the body and the putter handle are perfectly synchronized coming down, like a person holding a baseball on his palm in an elevator after someone cuts the support cables and the elevator plunges downward in a gravity free-fall: the baseball is still in the same location on the top of the palm, but it is effectively weightless and there is "no feel". This style is more sensitive to error than the "lag feel" style, since in my approach ANY change is error, whereas in the other style only certain reproductions of a certain correct "feel" corresponds to "no error" and there is not really a good boundary for detection of "error." My "nothing changing" feel makes a perfectly clear and repeating boundary for detection of even minute error -- if you "feel" anything at all, your timing and movement pattern is out of kilter.

To answer your first question about 45-degree hangers and whether it has technical "merit" or is a "feel thing," my answer is that it has the technical characteristics it has (toe-flow as imparted by the designer, which will train you to a certain stroke pattern) and it has the "feel" characteristics of torquing, and may or may not involve un-torquing lag "feel" also, but this is basically an old-style of putting on rougher greens with more robust power and a different movement pattern.

Studies by SAM PuttLab and my personal experience shows that there are two very different sorts of strokes -- a "hit" stroke and a smooth "hitless" stroke. The hitless stroke shows up in golfers accustomed to a hit stroke when you just remove the ball as they make strokes. The "hit" stroke shows up as a more robust, quicker, snapping shut of the putter face thru impact. Actually, the putter face tends more to "curl" from open to square to shut thru the impact area with the "hit" stroke. Clearly, this stroke demands more precise timing for accurate repetition than a "hitless" stroke in which the putter face stays square to the stroke path all the time and the ball just gets in the way some short time after the stroke bottoms out. Ball position and timing are lots less critical to accurate repetition. The point is that old-style putting is definitely a "hit" stroke and a 45-degree hanger trains the golfer away from a no-hit stroke movement more to the snap-it-shut-at-the-right-time-and-place-only sort of stroke. I don't like that a lot myself, but some golfers will need to stick with it until they learn a better way.

In answer to your question about lie angle and stroke path, I say: not necessarily. Consider Isao Aoki's style, with the putter perched away on a very flat lie and still with the toe up in the air for an even flatter lie. He putts straight, with a shoulder action that moves the shoulders in a plane, and this plane motion translates to an on-plane motion of the putter with the putter face staying square to the path or plane of motion. The lie angle only affects the stroke pattern of movement if you let it -- mostly by not knowing you have control. In golf, people aren't all that aware of these issues, and come up with statements like "since the putter shaft is on an angle, the stroke pattern MUST arc around the body and CANNOT go straight-back and straight-thru without manipulations." Uh, that's not a correct or intelligent statement of reality, folks. A more accurate statement is that a golfer putting without a lot of awareness of cause and effect in how his body can and is being used will likely tend to move the arms-plus-putter as a single unit with some effort to keep the angle of the arms and putter shaft the smae on the way back from the ball. It's an unnecessary "default" for most golfers to do that, so they speak about it as a "rule" vested with inviolable authority, when it's just a substandard understanding of the situation and reality. There is NO MANIPULATION of the putter with the arms or the hands in EITHER a straight-back or a tilted-plane arcing stroke, nor should there be, and this also means that the putter face will stay square to the path of the stroke in BOTH CASES without any "toe-flow" help.

So, within reason, lie angle does not correspond to a stroke path unless you don't know how to generate the stroke path you want. While the farther out from the body the lie angle requires the putter head to be tends to increase the body tension to support the putter head out of vertical, that is another story about setting and maintaining body tension at address and during the stroke. But the path itself? No, a certain lie angle does not "result" in a certain path, as this is not the cause-and-effect relationship between the body movement and the resulting stroke path.

In mathematics, the notion is referred to as "mapping." |A certain pattern of numbers in one world is "mapped" by a transforming function (all the Xs in the universe are turned into all the Ys in a parallel universe by the mapping function of all Xs shall now become Ys where the Ys are twice as big as the Xs -- a function noted in math by Y= f(x) = 2X, or Y=2X.) In the case of putting, the setup posture of torso bend, arm hang, grip form, and putter lie all conspire as a "function" to transform or "map" the shoulder motion to a putter head motion. A motion of the shoulders in a plane that parallels the intended line of the putt "maps" the setup posture to result in a putter head motion in a parallel plane. The shoulders move in plane, the putter head moves in a parallel plane, too. Simple.

If the shoulders are setup parallel to the intended line of the putt, and if the shoulders are moved by the golfer in a plane that also parallels the line, then ANY combination of arms, grip, and putter lie angle that starts at address with the putter face aimed on line will "map" the shoulder action and "cause" or "result in" a parallel movement of the putter head, always square to the path of the putter head movement. A conventional setup of the body holding a putter at 15 degrees of lie, used with a shoulder action in a parallel plane, will "cause" the putter head to move in a parallel plane a certain distance out from the feet. The same setup and shoulder motion with the golfer holding a putter on a 45 degree lie angle will also "result in" the putter head moving on a parallel plane, although this plane will be more sharply radiused than the earlier one (part of a smaller, tighter circle if continued completelyt around). Ultimately, if the putter lie gets to 90 degrees off vertical, the putter will be held parallel to the ground straight out from the center of the shoulder frame. A shoulder motion in a plane parallel to the line of the putt will STILL cause this putter head to move in a parallel plane, but this time the radiusing of the putter head's total circle will be so small and tight that it is a point, not a circle, and the putter head will simply spin on the axis of ther shaft as the shoulders rotate about the axis at the base of the neck. In ALL cases, shoulder action in a plane parallel to the line causes putter head action in another plane parallel to the line -- just the degree of radiusing of the putter head path changes with lie angles forcing the putter head closer and closer to straight out from the base of the neck.

That's the true cause-and-effect relationship between setup and movement and the putter head motion. There is no independent role played in this by the lie angle of the putter shaft.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Theorist and Coach
PuttingZone.com
http://puttingzone.com>

Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction.


    
This message has been edited by aceputt from IP address 88.107.167.174 on Apr 28, 2006 9:48 PM


 
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donald
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65.95.128.217

Re: Putter Head Balancing, Shaft Lie Angle, and Putter Head Stroke Path

April 29 2006, 2:18 PM 

Geoff !!!!

Thank you for your well-reasoned response to my sincere questions. I can tell you I enjoy you sharing your extensive knowledge with me and the forum lurkers. Please feel assured that I understand what you are saying, and I am learning from you too. However this does spawn a few more questions on my part, and I hope you will consider them as worthy of further response and clarification. Refering to your message:

1. " Today's greens are more suited to a less robust physics in the putter head motion and to more repeating and reliable big-muscle movement for simple accuracy."

I personally believe that the putting stroke is a function of body-shoulder-arm build and nothing much else. The mind will accomodate the ability or limitations of the golfer's physique and the putting stroke will be adapted accordingly. Short stout golfers may not be able to conveniently utilize their big-muscle movements of their thick torso and their putting stroke is from wrist action with their thick arms pressed against their bodies. Whatever putterhead path they can generate is theirs for perpetuity, and if they want to own a humungous mallet putter for status, they will forever be lousy putters. Tall thin golfers with loose shoulders will rotate or slide their shoulders around a still torso to maintain steadiness, and if they can hover over the ball they are closests to a vertical pendulum action. The remaining 80% of all "normal" golfers must decide how they want to putt given the abilities of their body types.

Interestingly, Mickelson used a heel-shafted true blade putter on the slick "bikini-waxed" greens of Augusta to win his Green Jacket ... some physics ... go figure .. !!!


2. "In my style, the shoulders generate the stroke (either straight-back or on a tilted plane) and the hands are truly "dead" and inactive."

Ah the "hands" ..... the ultimate "feel" machines, and since golf is supposed to be a game of "feel" at the highest levels, to kill the hands is almost heresy... !!! The aphorism of "different strokes for different folks" may be the operative concept for putting. In my case, my hands are highly sensitive because of my classical violin training from an early age, so not only do I possess "feel", I have great "rhythm and tempo" too ... and adding my natural latent athleticism from H.S. and college sports, I should be a tremendous golfer .... not. That aside, I can tell you that I find the unbalancing feedback from my 8802 and 45º "hanger" a positive sensation to maintaining putter head control, while the horizontal face-balanced putters are a total loss of feel resulting in my hands hunting for feedback causing the putterhead to wobble. (Vertical face-balance with heel-biased weighting seems to be wrong because the vertical cg axis is below the shaft.)

Also I have the ability to putt from the wrists or the shoulders, and use either as needed. Violinist-basketballers have good wrist or shoulder control .... so I expect that I am the freak exception from the norm ! Nevertheless, I appreciate your concept of putting style for most golfers.


3. "In answer to your question about lie angle and stroke path, I say: not necessarily." .... and ... "While the farther out from the body the lie angle requires the putter head to be tends to increase the body tension to support the putter head out of vertical, that is another story about setting and maintaining body tension at address and during the stroke."

Even though I have chosen to only quote these two statements, I do not ignore what you have further explained on lie angle of putters. What I take issue with is your statement that "body tension" increases to support the putter head when the lie angle is out of vertical. It may be so, but the loading on the hands must be more significant than the body tension when the shaft lie angle is flattened. The hands must exert a much greater force couple on the putter handle to maintain the putter cantilever at say 70º lie than at a more pendulum-like 80º lie angle. This static hand force couple must be held throughout the stroke and if there is any variation between the push down and pull up forces, the putter head will rise or fall. So how does one control or cancel out this cantilever supporting hands force couple in the vertical plane and still achieve a "dead hands" consistent putting stroke while implementing an axial torso rotation?

Personally, I lose hand control of putters at say 72º lie angle, and my putters are all bent to 80º maximum lie angle to achieve near-pendulum weighting.

I hope my questions are relevant and worthy of further discussion. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge with us.

 
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(no login)
66.116.42.155

Bullseye

August 15 2006, 9:21 AM 

New poster - great stuff!
My head is spinning, hopefully the answer to this question isn't buried in the above text already and I missed it...
What about a Bullseye or SeeMore type putter?
i.e. almost center shafted but toe hangers.
I tend to use these straight back and straigt thru - in fact usually violating the SeeMore alignment in order to make this happen.
Am I fighting "toe flow"?
Tempted to get a center shafted, face balanced mallet based on the above.
Thanks,
JC

 
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(no login)
24.167.140.53

Center-Shafted Putters and "Feel" in the Hands

August 17 2006, 3:56 AM 

Dear Donald,

Sorry for the delay!

In response to your three questions / comments:

1. I confess I do not understand near enough about the influence of body shape on putting technique. I note that the somewhat stocky Craig Stadler in his most recent book counsels a straight-back, straight-thru stroke pattern, despite being touted as one of Stan Utley's chief success stories from lessons taken before Craig wrote this book. This suggests to me that stocky body shapes don't necessarily mean the golfer is handicapped in executing the sorts of motions I usually prefer to see. Perhaps more importantly, what I really teach is a forward stroke that gets square to the line no later than the bottoming of the stroke and that persists as square to the line thru impact and at least a touch beyond impact. I think even morbidly obese golfers can handle this if they set their minds to it.


2. You write: Ah the "hands" ..... the ultimate "feel" machines, and since golf is supposed to be a game of "feel" at the highest levels, to kill the hands is almost heresy... !!! The aphorism of "different strokes for different folks" may be the operative concept for putting. In my case, my hands are highly sensitive because of my classical violin training from an early age, so not only do I possess "feel", I have great "rhythm and tempo" too ... and adding my natural latent athleticism from H.S. and college sports, I should be a tremendous golfer .... not. That aside, I can tell you that I find the unbalancing feedback from my 8802 and 45 degree "hanger" a positive sensation to maintaining putter head control, while the horizontal face-balanced putters are a total loss of feel resulting in my hands hunting for feedback causing the putterhead to wobble. (Vertical face-balance with heel-biased weighting seems to be wrong because the vertical cg axis is below the shaft.)

I can only reiterate: What do you mean by "feel" in a functional sense? Tightness of contact between hands and handle? The sensation of change of "feel" on the skin of the fingers and palm as the handle waggles about inside the grip form of the hands during the stroke? Or the sense of location and motion of the hands in space in relation to the position and orientation and motion of the putter head in space during the back and forth of the stroke?

If you use the term "sensitivity" to mean a tactile communication of the position, motion, and orientation of the putter head during the stroke, I would suggest to you that this sensitivity only comes into play when the forces in your stroke are making the handle of the putter act / react in ways contrary to the motion of your hands. When the putter head is "coordinated" with the shoulders, arms, and hands operating as a unit, there is no occasion for sensitive hands to be managing the motion of the putter head.

Your comment about the vertical forces of the toe-end of a putter head on a heel-shafted putter helping you have awareness of putter head position via the sensitive hands ("I find the unbalancing feedback from my 8802 and 45 degree "hanger" a positive sensation to maintaining putter head control") is not doing what you seem to think. The exact phrase you use ("a positive sensation to maintaining putter head control") really means that there is something in the hands that you focus on, but this "feel" in the sense of awareness of sensation in the hands is not really "maintaining putter head control" but is the steady note of sensation that does not change during a good stroke.

In comparison, you "hunt" for a similar "feel" when using a center-shafted putter ("the horizontal face-balanced putters are a total loss of feel resulting in my hands hunting for feedback causing the putterhead to wobble.") The "loss of feel" is imaginary, and in any case does not "cause" the putter head to wobble. What causes the putter head to wobble is your isolated focus on the hands, when your focus should be more on the total, integrated "feel" of torso, shoulders, arms, and hands as a unit. (I'm pretty experienced in what you describe, by the way, as one of my students describes this "loosey-goosey wobbling" sensation and we have worked extensively on this problem.) I think most of the cure for this specific problem is to establish a "grip pressure" of muscle tension in the hands on the handle and then suffuse the arms and shoulders with this SAME muscle tension, and then not focus on the hands, but focus instead on the coordination between the lead shoulder and the putter head (or even the shoulder frame plus arms and hands as a unit and the putter head). You should probably also try a little tighter grip pressure to unify the "feel" of hands and arms more, and then move the hands and arms with the shoulders. The feedback that then is salient is whether the handle of the putter inside the "feel" of the hands stays the same during the stroke. This monitoring the hands for "no change" in whatever sensation you have in the hands on the handle does not differ between a putter that toe-hangs vertically a bit (cantilevering the handle top-outward inside the hands) and the "feel" established in setting up with a center-shafted putter. In fact, the center-shafted putter has a minimum lie angle of 10 degrees, so holding such a putter is not really free of some cantilevering "feel" -- it's just not as pronounced.

3. You write: "The loading on the hands must be more significant than the body tension when the shaft lie angle is flattened. The hands must exert a much greater force couple on the putter handle to maintain the putter cantilever at say 70 degree lie than at a more pendulum-like 80 degree lie angle. This static hand force couple must be held throughout the stroke and if there is any variation between the push down and pull up forces, the putter head will rise or fall. So how does one control or cancel out this cantilever supporting hands force couple in the vertical plane and still achieve a "dead hands" consistent putting stroke while implementing an axial torso rotation?"

Actually, the upper arms hold the putter out at a flatter lie angle (with elbows out towards the ball from their relaxed hanging position beneath the shoulders), and the key added tension is how the upper arms maintain the angle of the arms out of the shoulder joint rather than the coupling forces at the hands. If this is not the case, but the upper arms are still hanging in a relaxed fashion (so that the elbows are vertically beneath the shoulders at address), then a flatter lie angle changes either the elbow angle (less straight, more cocked) or the wrist angle (thumbs higher). So there is an underlying issue of putter fitting and setup postures involved in what the forces actually are.

If you setup with the arms hanging naturally, the elbows are directly beneath the shoulders and the elbows have a slight cocking due to muscle development, so the forearm angles out of vertical a little and thus the hands hang slightly forward of the shoulders. If you bend so that the shoulders balance above the balls of the feet, the elbows are in line with the balls of the feet but the hands are forward of that and in line with the toes, usually. If a flat-lie putter is then placed in your hands so that the putter head is centered behind the ball, this flat lie will force you to raise your thumbs by changing wrist angle to establish your usual grip on the handle. The usual single line of the forearms matching the line of the shaft will now be two lines, with the forearms aiming at a point on the ground closer in to the feet than the ball and the shaft line aiming from the hands out to the ball, resulting in a shallow bend in the forearms-shaft relationship. This hands will have a little extra wrist tension to maintain this attitude of the putter in relation to the forearms.

So what? Once you have set your tension level at address, and then move the shoulders, arms, and hands as a coordinated unit, without hand manipulations of any sort, the hands simply are "dead". The setting of the tension at address and the coordinated stroke motion RESULTS in "dead hands" without further bother. Every setup and grip form will have some tension. "Dead" does not mean tension-free; it means no use, or no CHANGE in tension, either from use of the hands distinct from the motion of the arms and shoulders or from excessive jerkiness or abruptness in the motion slinging the handle about inside the hands. Smooth, steady tension, and unused separate from the coordinated motion is "dead."

I hope this helps clarify things a bit.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist
PuttingZone
http://puttingzone.com
Golf's most advanced putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.



    
This message has been edited by aceputt from IP address 24.167.140.53 on Aug 17, 2006 4:06 AM


 
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