I see all these different putting stroke trainers, some at 12 degrees (the putting arc and putting pilot from iputt), some at 18 degrees (Eyeline putting plane), and now one at 22 degrees (Eyeline Utley's learning curve). What is the correect plane angle to learn the proper putting stroke?

All stroke trainers have the assumption that the stroke has the same shape on the back and on the front sides of the middle of the stroke. This assumption is not accurate for optimal putting, and is just a guess by people who make training aids. The stroke I teach is not always symmetrical. The stroke from the bottom of the stroke going forward thru the ball is straight by having a vertical-plane stroke path that rises slightly and casts the putter face square and straight down the line for a short distance. The backstroke and downstroke to the bottom might also be straight and in a vertical-plane, but it does not have to be.

No training stroke "arc" or tilted plane will be exactly right for a specific golfer. They are all "one-size-fits-all" for the sake of manufacturing and sales convenience. The question ends up being whether a specific training aid BEST helps you putt your BEST. In my view, no one who "arcs" the putter shut or closed past the bottom of the stroke going forward thru the ball is putting his best.

Even if you wanted a "symmetrical stroke arc" that you could train using a tilted-plane stroke trainer, and wanted to get the right angle of tilt for you specifically, your angle will vary based on your setup and your putter and your body. A flatter lie angle corresponds to a bigger tilt. Some folks might have one lie angle for the putter but really their body works best with a different angle of motion. So I would recommend a VARIABLE-TILT stroke plane trainer, at the least, so you can experiment and grow into your most effective motion.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
PuttingZone

Is not your device also a fixed plane? I see no difference in your device versus the others.

Hi Chuck,
The chrome rail that is suspended above the ground provides a constant and how the puttershaft rests against it determines the plane. If the putter has an upright lie angle the head will not swing as much inside/inside. So too if the hand position is upright or the heel of the putter off the ground. The opposite effect when the lie angle is flatter, the hands lower or the toe is off the ground.This also means the putter face will open or close more or less dependent on the plane that the shaft moves on. The best way for yourself to see this would be to get two chairs approximately 3 feet apart, then place a broom handle or similar on the chairs so that the handle is suspended above the ground with either end at the same height. Position the chairs so that when you rest a puttershaft on the handle that you have a straight line reference underneath where the putterhead is. This could be on the seams of carpet or tile work. Once you have this setup rest the puttershaft on the handle and maintain contact as you move the putter in a putting stroke. You will notice that the head will move inside/inside and the face will open and close relative to the target line. However the shaft will remain parallel to the target line or in the case of a centre shafted putter it will remain pointing at the target line throughout the stroke. If you change the shaft angle of the putter by lowering or raising your hands at address you will notice small changes in the amount of opening and closing of the face and the amounts that the head swings inside/inside. This means that when you use a suspended rail as a plane mechanism you do not have pre determined angles that apply to every putter or players preferences in posture or hand position.
I hope this helps you understand a little more about path and plane in a putting stroke.
Kind Regards
Mark Officer

To learn what a true straight back, straight through putting stroke really feels like is to not have any thing attach to the putter head or shaft.
Having verticals lines drawn, about every 2" on a flat sheet of paper or thin plastic will allow you to see if the putter face is remaining square to the target line during the putting stroke. It would look just like a railroad track with out the rails.
If you want I can send you a drawing.

We invented and manufactured a laser line module that may help to monitor the putting stroke pattern. The laser beam projects a horizontal line on the putting surface normal to the putter face through the ball and the target. This visual feedback allow golfer to see the stroke pattern and at the same time starting with perfect aiming and body alignment for practice. More information of the product can be found in nsi-optosmart.com
Thanks

Hi Chuck and Geoff,
I also find it confusing that different companies can claim that the ideal plane for the putting stroke to be a certain amount. This is why I think that it is far more effective to be using a plane mechanism with the shaft of the putter moving along a suspended rail rather than the heel of the putter resting on a tilted board or curved device. This can be demonstrated by taking a look at the Perfectstroke Putting Aid - www.perfectstroke.org
Another danger of using a device with the heel resting on a training device is that you can inadvertently apply a downward and inward pressure. This means that when you remove the device and try to putt as normal the stroke path may become too inside/inside with the putter face opening and closing too much. In using a suspended plane mechanism as provided by the Perfectstroke Aid you are able to also use the inside of the suspended rail thus balancing out this reliance. After hitting putts and doing practice strokes on either side of the rail it is then removed and putts hit without this reliance. After all what you are trying to develop is a stroke that can be used on the course in a natural and not too mechanical manner.
Kind Regards
Mark Officer

Dear Chuck,

I don't have or sell a stroke trainer that I have designed. The aids on my website are just there for your information. The one I have featured on the home page is the I-Putt stroke plane. This particular stroke trainer can be set at various angles of tilt from vertical to other angles off vertical. That's a good thing in my book, as opposed to stroke plane trainers for which someone else sets the angle for all golfers.

I sometimes get a thick sheet of poster BOARD perhaps 1/8th inch thick (not paper) and make a stroke trainer like this: using an exacto knife, cut out a rectangle about 12-16" on one side and about 30-36" on the other side; "score" a cut halfway thru the board down the middle of the long direction so the board will fold like a pup tent; inserts tooth picks or short lengths from a wire coat hanger into pup tent's bottom edges -- two on each edge -- for sticking and anchoring the stroke plane in the green surface; then pick your angle -- set one side vertical and the other side on a supporting angle and run the heel of your putter along the vertical face, or set the working face of the trainer on any angle you want like a pup tent. This costs about $5 total and works quite well.


Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist
PuttingZone
http://puttingzone.com
Golf's most advanced putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.

Mark:

You are quite correct to point out that the putter head will move on an arc even if the shaft is guided by a rail, but the deviation is so very small within the range of the putting backstroke (3" -8") that it becomes negligible and insignificant for normal putting control. Have you calculated or actually measured the deviations for different stroke lengths, and if you have please provide them for us.

I just don't believe that we have to get so neurotic about say 30' or 30" of angular deviation from square ... or worry that the putter face is not milled to 10 thousandths accuracy .... or laser beams are required to maintain alignments ... or the eyes must be perfectly vertical and glued over the center of the ball .. or whatever else you want to stay sleepless about ... because once the ball is struck the vagaries of the grass and ground will destroy any speck of intolerance in your stroke and putter construction ... !!!!

The human mind and body may not be capable of working within the tolerances that are imposed on the putter and stroke path because once all these guidance gizmos are removed the putting stroke becomes a "best guess" effort. What I am saying is that it is not possible to ingrain a perfectly repeatable putting stroke into the human mind-body ... not even with thousands of practice repetitions ... because the mind uses a reverse hunting process to decide what to do in the future and then takes a stab at it. Meanwhile the body torso core structure is too gross in it's movement to guide the distant putter head in a perfect pendulum motion regardless of how you attempt to immobilize the body posture, pinned upper arms, cantilevered forearms and extended hands. Something will always go wrong in this insecure, shaky assembly because the body is not a machine.

All the restraining guidance gizmos remind me of that big hoop swing plane thingy where you stand inside the hoop and swing your driver or irons .. except for putting it's on a much smaller scale. Since the average golfer wants to learn the whole gestalt without practicing ("show me how to do it"), these gizmos can be valuable in settling down the unfortunate hacker and provide some modicum of help as they stab or slash at the ball .... after all "there is no time to practice" for most golfers and they only want to convert instruction from their wonderous mind directly to the swing or stroke and expect the ball to behave ... all without significant practice. Meanwhile several years later for those who have paid the price ..... keep the putting stroke short to eliminate the inherently natural deviations.


Geoff:

All this raises an interesting point ... what are the angular or dimensional tolerances that can be reasonably achieved in the human putting stroke? Can you actually control the incoming face loft or the face path alignment to say +/- 1º ... and dimensionally to +/- 0.25" .... on a consistent basis ... or are we just trying to split hairs ... ???

Hi Chuck,
From my research for a putting stroke that travels back 15 inches(around 380mm) the putterface with a lie angle within normal parameters will open around 5 degrees in relation to the target line. Hopefuly it will close the same amount on the followthrough at that distance. For a stroke half that length it opens and closes around 2.5 degrees. So for short putts the face opens only a very small amount that really should not be noticeable. The idea of a gating stroke can give people the wrong idea which can be as equally destructive as trying to keep the face square to the target.
I would also agree with your point about reliance on training aids and gizmos, that's why in my first post I mentioned that when using the Perfectstroke Aid you should remove the rail after practicing with the shaft resting on it on both sides.
Kind Regards
Mark Officer

Hi Mark .. it's me sammy who you are responding to ...

Your numbers are puzzling to me because if you sweep back 15" on a 54"radius (Geoff's putting radius) the swept angle is ~15º .... so that by my geometry the face of a putter should deviate the same 15º ... while you only measured a 5º deviation as the putter face fanning opening. If your research is correct, where did the other 10º go ? Does the putter face counter-rotate and close the putter face by 10º ... or does the radius increase because the hands move back more to effectively reduce the swept angle ?

In the matter of guidance gizmos, how can the cautious, restraining movement when using these devises be transferred over to an unrestrained putting stroke ? I can see how such devices can initially help the novice golfer consciously figure out what has to happen during their putting stroke ... but I don't think it's proven that repetitive practice using these devices can "groove" a putting stroke ... which is what golfers expect.

Imposing restraints on the human body without significantly loading the body muscles will not result in semi-conscious repeatable movements when on the green. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's basic kinesiology. Geoff ... ???

Sammy, I would like to add the following thoughts;

A putting training device like the “Putting Pilot” or gizmo as you call it, definitely has a purpose in teaching a golfer the putting stroke. Similar to putting a baby in a walker, a putting path trainer helps the golfer get started.
When you feel they are ready, you put a baby in a walker, let then attempt to walk on their own with a little guidance. First they begin to feel the proper mechanics, then they develop the proper muscle control, and then after you can clearly see they are walking using almost no help from the walker, you take it away. Without the walker to get them going on the right path, learning to walk would be a long and not to mention a bumpy road, putting is no different. I might add that walkers are adjustable to fit different size babies, as putting trainers should be!