I've used a 35" putter most of my life because I'm pretty tall (6'2" or 6'3"). Over the past couple of years I've noticed that I've hit the ball towards the toe of my putter (more times than not). This seems to happen with both blade and mallet type putters and tends to cause my balls to come up short of the hole.
I was looking at putters the other day. They didn't have the 35" putter in the model I was looking at so I putted with the 34" model. It may have just been one of those days, but it seemed like I hit the ball closer to the center of the putter face when using this putter.
Could it be the shorter putter helping me find the center of the putter face more or was it more than likely the putter itself (lie, loft, mallet head, balance, etc.)?
If you consider what happens when a person uses a putter that is too long for them, among the number of undesirables is a stroke in which the putter head sinks during the back-and-thru stroke in towards the golfer's feet. (The putter is actually sinking back to hang beneath the hands and shoulders, which are poised at address over the toes / balls of the feet.) That brings the sweetspot in too close to the feet and the impact with the ball is then out towards the toe of the putter face. It doesn't take much inward falling of the putter head, so it's not especially noticeable.
If you then consider what happens when that same person uses a shorter putter, you can see how the feet-wards dropping of the putter head is reduced or eliminated. A shorter putter requires that the golfer bend a bit more from the top and this positions the shoulders and hands closer to the ball, as the shoulders and hands are further out from the ankles towards the ends of the feet than otherwise. The ball is effectively brought in a bit closer to the shoulders and hands in this setup, and this reduces the angle out to the ball of the shaft. (This angle depends on the center of the hands out to the ball.) The putter then hangs closer to vertical. There is less opportunity for the putter head to drop inward towards the feet, since the shoulder frame and hands are closer out to the ball.
In addition, the positioning of the shoulder frame lower and more bent over to the ball changes the angle at the top of the spine, where the shoulder frame swings or rocks. When this angle is somewhat tilted up out of horizontal, there is a tendency for the golfer to make an arcing stroke that comes inside in the backstroke (the shoulders swing more around in a horizontal way, as opposed to more down and under in a vertical way.) . If you come inside in the backstroke, but don't quite get back out to the ball on the forward stroke, the result is a toe-ish impact. Standing a bit closer to the ball, more bent over at the top closer to a horizontal top of spine, the shoulders move more down and under in a vertical relation to the ground, and this keeps the putter head more out along a single path -- a path with much less tendency to "collapse" inwards during the back-and-thru stroke. The result is fewer impacts towards the toe of the putter face.
So, to get to the positive, it is really about the golfer's posture at address and the distance out from his feet he plays the ball in relation to that posture. The putter fitting needs to fit this posture and ball position out from the feet. What is happening most of the time with a 35" putter that is too long for a specific golfer is that the handle of the putter "suggests" that the golfer hold it in the middle, and this than defines the "length" from the center of the hands to the sole of the putter in a way that is too long.
The golfer responds to this in one of two ways: 1. he shortens the effective length by tucking his elbows in close to his ribs higher than they normally hang, which adds tension in the hands and arms and shoulders, or 2. he extends the elbows and arms down naturally (or even straight with tension) and this forces the ball position farther out from the feet than is good for the way he bends at the top.
When the same golfer then picks up a 34" putter, the handle "suggests" that he lower his hands to the now-lower middle of the handle. This bends the golfer over more, lets the elbows and arms hang more naturally, and keeps the ball position in a bit closer to the feet. The result is a stroke in which the sweetspot stays out to the back of the ball more naturally.
If I recall correctly, Bobby Locke used to position his putter face behind the ball so the sweetspot was just a bit past the center of the ball. Then when he drew the putter back to the inside in his closed stance, and delivered the forward blow from the inside out to the ball, this initial discrepancy disappeared and he hit the ball solidly -- just a passing note, for whatever it's worth. I suppose one artificial trick to handle toe-ish impacts and preserve the oddities of a setup and stroke that are causing them is to address the ball a bit heel-ish at the beginning and then let nature take its course. But I recommned dealing with causes, not applying bandaids, bailing wire, and chewing gum.
Cheers!
Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist
PuttingZone http://puttingzone.com
Golf's most advanced putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.
Thank you for the response...what you says makes a lot of sense about how a putting stroke should work and how mine actually works. It also helps me understand why my stroke is erratic at times...depending on the putter I'm using. It may be time for me to find a putter that is appealing to me and stick with it instead of trying various putters in hopes of a change of the results I'm getting.
2 more questions if I may:
1) Is there a difference (as far as lie angle, how your body would set up, etc.) between using a 34" putter, and choking down an inch or so on a 35" putter?
2) Would the "putter head sinking back towards my feet" be lessened with a blade type putter? I prefer a mallet putter (especially ones with long black allignment aids..ie: TM Monza Corza, NC Gray Matter 2, etc.) because I feel like I get better distance control and those 3 footers seem so much easier. But I also feel that when I use a blade putter I don't hit my putts toward the toe of my putter as much.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my questions....it has helped me A LOT!!!
Along with getting the proper length putter, how would the amount of shaft offset effect my toe hits?
One putter I like (TM Monza Corza) comes with the option of a double bend shaft that has a 1/2 shaft offset OR an "L neck" hosel that gives a full shaft offset.
Just wondering if one would help lessen putts hit towards the toe more than the other.
"Three Corzas are being launched at retail: the Corza, which is heel-shafted and features a double-bend shaft; the Corza 1, which is heel-shafted with an L-neck to create a toe-down option, and the Corza Center, which is center-shafted."
Honestly, this question is a bit too subtle to answer straight up. The hoseling issue is not so much about varying physics in the stroke as it is about the way the golfer uses perceptual cues in the putter design to make the stroke (in my estimation). Hosels that actually connect to the putter head near the sweetspot present one sort of visual experience, and hosels that aim to the sweetspot but bend to attach to the heel offer a different visual experience. There is a difference in the way the brain responds to and uses the tools. A goose-neck putter or a putter in which the hosel is set back from the putter face a substantial distance present other issues in how the brain responds to thesae designs and uses these tools.
For example, a goose-neck putter designed to encourage or promote a hands-ahead impact dynamic has the shaft and hosel in front of the putter face. This creates a visual in which the golfer watches for the time when the hosel first obscures the back and top of the golf ball before he makes his impact move thru the ball. There is an ambiguity in this design in which sometimes the golfer thinks about the time when the putter face itself will impact the back of the ball. Having two different timing cues in the visual experience is not, I think, a good thing over the long haul. A simil;ar situation exists with hosels set back from the putter face -- the golfer is betwixt and between whether he is swinging the hosel or swinging the putter face. the timing is different, so there is a needless problematic element injected into the brain processing by the design. That's one of the main resons I personally prefer a center-shafted, face-balanced putter with the hosel right near the sweetspot.
In terms solely of the varying physics of different hosel designs, I suppose there is some effect worth discussing, but I really believe the real problem is one of the perceptual cues imbedded in the tool. The closer the hosel is to the sweetspot itself, the less likely the golfer will miss to the toe side. So center-hoseled putters offer clearer visual cues than do heel-hoseled putters. The heel-hoseled putters confuse the visual issue of tool use a bit in the direction of toe hits. or so it seems to me.
Cheers!
Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist
PuttingZone http://puttingzone.com
Golf's most advanced putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.
"1) Is there a difference (as far as lie angle, how your body would set up, etc.) between using a 34" putter, and choking down an inch or so on a 35" putter?"
Not much. It depends on the lie angle of the putter and your setup to begin with. Assuming the 35" putter starts out soled flatly, going down the handle 1" to make it the equivalent of a 34" putter will leave the sole flat, but will dip the head a little more lower. Assuming the head and face were all the way lowered to horizontal to start with (the classic "flat back of head" position from the 1950s-1970s era), this extra lowering will be too much, as you will then look back a bit into your feet at the ball. This will require you to step back a little from the ball in order to level the head back out. If you step back a bit, that changes the lie so the putter will end up a little "toe up" at address. What usually happens is that the golfer is NOT starting out with the classic "flat back of head" setup, but with the face tilted slightly forehead up to start with. Then, going down the handle 1" lowers the head, but not past horizontal, so no change in the distance back from the ball is required, so no change in the lie occurs, and the putter stays with the sole flat on the green. The upshot is that in most cases the lowering of the hands on the handle just brings the head a little lower, but in the rare case where the golfer starts out with eyes over ball and back of head flat, the lowering of the hands will force the toe up and the stance further from the ball to avoid aiming the face too much in to the feet to look at the ball (instead of straight down at the ball, facing the green perpendicularly).
"2) Would the "putter head sinking back towards my feet" be lessened with a blade type putter? I prefer a mallet putter (especially ones with long black allignment aids..ie: TM Monza Corza, NC Gray Matter 2, etc.) because I feel like I get better distance control and those 3 footers seem so much easier. But I also feel that when I use a blade putter I don't hit my putts toward the toe of my putter as much."
Tough question. Perhaps. The center of gravity of the putter head in relation to the location of the hosel differs with a blade design and a mallet design, usually. But not necessarily. (Some mallets are in fact heel-shafted.) If the COG is farther from the feet than the hosel, this creates a canterlevering effect that creates a little extra tension in the hands and arms at setup and during the stroke to manage the tendecy of the handle to lever top-end away from the body. In comparison, a "center shafted" or "face balanced" putter has LESS of this canterlevering force and so is managed with less tension in the setup and stroke. It is probable that the setup with the less tension is the one more likely to allow the putter head to sink inwards. On the other hand, a heel-shafted blade putter has inertial properties from the hoseling that promote an arcing path and a flaring toe, so this promotes the coming inside and the tendecny to fail to get back outside at impact (a toe hit). If you get good with the heel-shafted blade putter, you overcome this tendency to not quite make it back out to the center of the ball with the sweetspot. That's good, but there is still the issue of leaving the toe flared open. You can get a "sweetspot" impact, but with the toe open, and that is pretty fatal. What seems to be the good golfer's response or adaptation to this when using a heel-shafted blade putter is to "grow" a certain type of stroke. The stroke is a "hit" swing thru the impact area, in which the premium is on curling the toe square to closing thru the impact zone, as in a baseball swing. (Timing is everything.) During impact, these strokes are in the process of changing the face orientation to the target, so a small mistake in timing is costly in terms of line. In contrast, a "face balanced" or "center shafted" putter really highlights whether the toe is closing in comparison to the heel of the putter, as these are two halves of the putter head on opposite sides of the hosel. In my teaching, the "feeling" of a straight stroke is sort of a presentation of the heel-side of a center-shafted putter rising square with a slight extension farther from the center of the stance down the line. This prevents the toe closing over the heel and "casts" the putter head square and online with a slight rise along the straight path at the target. Keeping the putter head square and online thru impact reduces the criticality of timing dramatically, with big dividends over the long haul. Now, because the ideal is to set a specific tension level at address and then maintain this level throughout the stroke, the danger of the center-shafted putter "collapsing" inward from a relatively lighter grip pressure should be reduced or eliminated. All together, the comparison boils down to the danger of toe-open but solid impacts, and not really to toe-ish impacts. Square is much more vital than solid.
In your specific case, if the mallet is dropping inward or failing to get the sweetspot back out to the back of the ball, whereas this does not happen with the same frequency using a blade, it could be that you use slightly less grip pressure with the mallet and then non-consciously allow this pressure to give way a little, thereby allowing the putter head to collapse a bit inward during the back and thru stroke. If so, the giving way of the tension is happening not in the hands but in the arms, in the upper arms mostly. The elbows need to stay the same distance out from the body, or at least get back to the same distance they start out from the body at address, for impact. The sinking in of the elbows is very hard to notice, mostly because the upper torso is in motion. If there is any change at all in the arm pits during the stroke, either the arms are going farther by themselves than the shoulder frame would otherwise move them (making the stroke path arc inside with forearms rolling going back) or the upper arm tension is giving way a bit and the upper arms are sinking back to the chest. In the former case, unless there is a reciprocal and matching "unrolling" of the arms coming forward in the down and thru stroke, the tendency would be for the rolling arms to plant the arms closer to the chest going back, and then they stay there coming forward. This is a toe hit. And in the second case, when the arms relax a bit back against the chest in the down and thru stroke, this also is a toe hit.
So, pay close attention to the positioning with which your arm pits are configured at address, the degree to which your arms in the stroke are moved solely by the shoulders without rolling of the forearms, and the degree to which the elbow in the down and thru stroke either stay the same distance out from the body or get back out to this distance (without going too far) for solid impact.
An old bit of lore that still has some currency today is the planting of the rear elbow near the ribs or the hip in the setup and keeping this contact during the stroke. This is an old way to get done what I am describing above.
Cheers!
Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist
PuttingZone http://puttingzone.com
Golf's most advanced putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.
THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION. I'VE READ THROUGH IT AND UNDERSTAND MOST OF IT [ ]. I'VE PRINTED IT OUT AND AM GOING TO RE-READ IT AND MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR RESPONDING TO MY MANY QUESTIONS!!!
Just out of curiousity, what center shafted putter do you use?
AGAIN, THANKS FOR ALL THE INFORMATION AND YOUR VALUABLE TIME!!!
]. I'VE PRINTED IT OUT AND AM GOING TO RE-READ IT AND MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING.