I thought you might be interested to hear that I just got named the "Women's Player of the Year" by the Fayetteville Observer!
Also I would like to ask you one question. I can remember what you said about ball position as far as the ball being away from the feet, however I cannot remember what you said about the ball position as far as the ball being left and right. Is it true that when my eyes are over the ball and I drew a line from the left side of my left eye to the ground and also a line from the right side of my right eye to the ground, that the ball should be in between that range preferable towards the left so you hit the ball on the upswing? Or is that bologna?
Congratulations! You worked for it! Winning five tournaments and then beating 450 guys in the Amateur Tour Championship was quite astonishing for someone who has played a mere four years!
To answer your question:
Ball position is more about making a stroke WITHOUT any eyes and even without a head! Making the stroke is ALL ABOUT THE BODY ITSELF IN MOTION. So a good stroke has perfect symmetry thru impact. That means that the putter starts back from one line on the ground right beneath the leading edge of the putter face, and as the forward stroke comes back, this address position is again reached when the stroke of the putter gets to its lowest point in the stroke. If you can "go away from this line and come back to this line" accurately, then the rest of the stroke forward and rising thru the ball will be correct. Ball position only has to be slightly forward of this line on the ground.
How do you find where this line on the ground should be in your stance? It is the LOWEST point in the stroke, where the putter sole is closest to the green, given your setup postures, your grip style, and your putter design. A neutral setup and grip and center-shafted putter makes the line on the ground pretty much in the mid-line of your body (center of eyes, center of chin, throat line, sternum, center of stance). If your grip style has the right hand a bit lower, this shifts the line to the left. If your right shoulder is a bit lower, this shifts the line to the left. If your left hand on the grip is low, this shifts the line to the left, too. Any off-set in the hosel with the shaft a little ahead of the putter face also shifts the line left to beneath the hosel, not the putter face. basically, anything but neutral shifts the line a little left. So ball position is never right of your body mid-line and always an inch or two forward of the middle of your body BUT also always a bit left of the BOTTOM of the stroke.
To find the bottom, just setup and make strokes and monitor your body to make sure the PIVOT at the base of your neck is not going lower or dipping thru the impact zone. Hold the pivot at a constant elevation during the stroke, and this makes the address position of the putter head the same as the lowest point in the stroke. The putter head rises slightly on either side of this point.
[This also assumes that in the setup there is no "play" left in the shape of the arms -- such as a crook in the elbow -- and that the arms are "hanging naturally and fully in gravity." If the golfer retains "play" in the arms at setup, there is a considerable likelihood that the elbows during the stroke will "un-crook" a little without the golfer being aware of it, and this alters the timing and shape of the stroke and greatly confuses the accuracy of the exact bottom identified and related to at address.]
As a practice exercise, adopt your good setup WITHOUT a ball, and then draw the line on the ground right at the putter face. Then practice making strokes away from and back to this bottom line so that the putter face reaches this line SQUARE and at the LOWEST point in the stroke. So long as the ball is left of this line a little, the ball is fine.
The main thing is to get the stroke bottomed out just before the impact. The main thing is NOT to make impact right at the bottom itself, and impact a little after is okay. So don't crowd the ball right up against this line, as that makes it more likely you will MISS getting back to the bottom before impact, and this sort of stroke sends the ball off-line (sometimes left, sometimes right, depending on other factors). Don't worry about the rising of the putter between any distance from the bottom line to the back of the ball. As far off as 3 inches between the line and the back of the ball, the putter will hardly rise any, and will only rise about 1/10th of an inch, which does not matter to the solidity of impact on the putter face. It simply lowers the point of impact on the face about 1/10th of an inch from halfway up from the bottom to halfway up from the bottom of the putterface less 1/10th of an inch, which is fine and solid.
Nor will the ball get "launched" off the ground by this forward position. What actually happens is the rising of the putter face into the back of the ball plus the loft designed into the putter face makes the "slab" of the putter head move flush on a line of impact thru the center of the sphere of the ball that slightly misses the center of the ball, transiting a little ABOVE the center of the ball. Combined with the gentle, non-percussive tempo and the "smooth" action of your stroke, this trajectory of blow thru the shape of the ball "knocks the ball over like a bowling pin" and starts its rolling nice and smooth without hopping or bouncing or jumping off the surface.
None of this involves the eyes in relation to the ball. It involves the mid-line of your face and the BOTTOM of your stroke. Once you have this bottom, then ball position left of this line with a modest gap between putter face and back of ball is all that is required. But when you make the stroke, you make the stroke always the same way moving the body in space away from and back to this bottom line, and then the rising of the stroke into and thru the ball takes care of itself. Putt the bottom, not the ball. You can and should be making this sort of stroke with eyes closed, without eyes, and without a head! Just your stroke and the bottom line -- away and then back and thru.
Let me know what is going on.
Cheers!
Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist
PuttingZone.com
Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction.
This message has been edited by aceputt from IP address 75.177.5.154 on Jan 10, 2007 3:21 AM
Thanks for your quick answer, I also read the article from your homepage. I liked that picture a lot.
I was doing a few putts after work today and to tell you the truth, my ball up to this point has been forward of where it should have been by about 2 to 3 inches! And I always wondered why my ball is not rolling very good but more jumping. I always knew that my hands tended to get a little behind the ball where I added loft, but then Bob just told me to put my hands forward which felt like setting up to a wedge, and it felt really awkward doing the correct stroke.
Of course I experimented with putting the ball back a little bit, and it honestly rolled better, but I thought it didn't agree with what you told me, so I never kept it there. I remembered you saying the ball needs to be hit definate ly on the upstroke (the more on the upstroke you hit it, the less side spin you'll put on it).
I did look at the Cap Laser that you recommended from Putt like the Pros. Did you actully try that out or talk to the guy who designed it? Because if you didn't, I would bet you it's not going to work right. (I don't think it's designed for that purpose either by looking at the website, it's only designed to detect motion). I tried today to attach my laser to a regular baseball cap and used one where the sides go pretty much down a good way, but it still wasn't long enough so that the laser would be at the exact same hight as the eyes. And you really have to be so acurate doing it.
The probably simplest, easiest and cheapest drill I found for doing the proper apple on the stick head turn is to simply set up and put your head against a wall and then turn...
And the best drill I found as far as ball position is just to hang down a ball or some object down a string from the middle of your eyes, because then you not only find the correct Y-axis (like with a mirror on the ground) but also the correct Z-axis (You can't be standing on a slope though).