Love your amazing site, just wish I had many more hours to pour through everything. I know there have been many questions over the years regarding sidesaddle putting but it seems it has been at least a few years since the last one. I just wanted to give my personal opinions on sidesaddle and hammY style. I have always been a decent putter but when a friend gave me a hammy and explained the theories it made sense to me, I switched and improved putting by at least 4-6 putts a round. Then I tried sidesaddle and was amazed and how easy it is. I thought the hammy was easy, sidesaddle is 100 times easier and that makes it about 1000 times easier than conventional putting. The ease I find is hitting the ball dead ass straight every singe time. With sidesaddle there are only 2 things to think about. 1)line 2) speed. That's it! No worrying about lifting you head, pulling putts, pushing putts, making sure both arms are working together, grip pressure, keeping the triangle etc..etc...etc.. 2 things only. If you miss it is only b/c of speed or you had the wrong line. I can hit 100 putts in a row all dead straight. I can do it with my eyes closed, talking on a phone, drunk, looking at my friend standing next to me, looking at the hole, looking at the ball, looking t a spot 6 inches in front of my ball etc... It is by far the easiest, most consistent, natural way to putt a golf ball. Long putting and belly putting are easier too but not near as easy as sidesaddle. I have a shorter putter 40" and it works like a charm. I find it easier than the longer ones. I can only encourage everybody to try it. Forget buying putter after putter and changing grips like the weather. Saw, claw, right hand low, long, belly.
I like your enumeration of the different aspects that sidesaddle putting improves for you -- this makes one want to do some testing for consistency and accuracy, comparing apples and apples for these separate aspects as they are isolated in conventional style versus sidesaddle style putting (e.g., whether the arm action really IS more consistent and accurate for sidesaddle putting for all golfers, even ones who are highly skilled in conventional technique, and not just for golfers who are NOT very skilled at conventional technique). One can readily accept that not-so-good golfers can get significantly better by abandoning a technique or style they are not very adept in for a style that SEEMS to be the "answer" for them.
Personally, I'm not that good putting face-forward. While many amateurs appear to perform better than before when switching to sidesaddle, that is not really what I'm after in researching putting. What I want to know is whether a given style is "optimal" based upon the usual human brain and body, as opposed to whether a so-so golfer can get ANY improvement anyhow. I frankly can't tell whether the improvement you report personally translates to other golfers generally (why it would or why it wouldn't), let alone tell whether it is the "best" technique for any normal golfer. And I haven't seen any testing that addresses this precise issue either. Maybe one day!
I hear exactly what you are saying Geoff and I agree it would be very interesting to see some apple to apple comparisons.
I guess if we were to compare skills not only for non skilled conventional putters but also for highly skilled putter against highly skilled sidesaddle putter my assumption is that the conventional putter would not have a chance especially when it comes to consistancy and accuracy. Of course if we are talking about comparing a Tiger Woods or Loren Roberts to a highly skilled sidesaddler it might not be so clear cut but I can gurantee I as well as many other sidesaddle putters can out putt several touring pro's. Like you, I have studied and watched many touring pro's for many many hours. I have spent time with Stan Utley and others on their putting thoughts (many times disagreeing with them). I have been on the inside of the ropes many times and it never amazes me the terrible putting that goes on. As you have also said it all comes down to putting on the PGA Tour. These guys all hit their drives in the exact same spot, they all hit their irons the exact same, they all have nice short games and produce shots that are very similar to each other what they all don't do the same is make putts. Putting is the difference not only of winning and losing tournaments but in making the cut as well. When you take 10 pros and after 2 rounds none of them have hit any balls out of bounds or in any hazards yet there is a score difference after 2 rounds 10 shots or more it is all 100% putting.
But back to our original thoughts. As far as you not being a good face-foward putter, I can imagine it might be a couple of reasons. One of the biggest reasons may be b/c you simply don't want to be all that good at it. You love conventional putting, you love conventional putters (as do I), you have invested many hours and hours into research etc.. you simply won't allow yourself to completely drop what you know and love in order to maybe gain a putt or 2 a round. It's not worth it, so unconsciously you don't allow yourself to accept it. ??? It can not be diminished how big of a step it is for a golfer to use and change to this style of putting. It takes an understanding of the thoughts and it takes a commitment to the style. Another reason might be b/c you simply don't take the time embrace it and to really focus on the style. You know in your heart your not going to change so why bother to give it an honest effort.
I will always say that putting is an art not a science and one of the most important things when it comes to putting on confidence. If you have it no matter what method you use your putting will be helped.
But I will say that I do think sidesaddle is the optimal way to putt. And not because of the eye sight thing. I have never relied too much on those thoughts b/c I simply don't think that helps me all that much. I think it is the optimal way b/c of how simple it is to make a straight back and straight through pendulum stroke. Is this not what we are all trying to accomplish? So that would lead us into all of the sidesaddle and hammy theories. I live my life with a heavy dose of common sense. If it makes sense great, if it does not I have to question it.
I don't think there are any doubts that if you give 5,000 people a golf ball, touring pro's, amatures, children, people from China, Denmark, Tahiti anywhere anybody, and ask them to roll the golf ball with only their hands to a hole 20 feet away, all 5,000 will roll it in very much the same way. All will face the hole and with an underarm motion using their dominant hand they will roll the ball to hole. And it will be amazing how many roll the ball fairly close without thinking much about it. The body and brain will kind of go on auto pilot b/c we as humans have been doing stuff like this since we were all small.
So then why now when we want to putt do we make a 90 degree turn to our line, use 2 arms and hands and try to do some sort of side tossing motion? Why? Why? Why? It simply does not make sense. The only reason people can give is b/c that is the way we have always been doing it in golf and it's tradition. Besides that, the reasons fall flat on their face and b/c we have always done it that way does not mean anything to me when I'm shooting lower scores. Basketball players used to all shoot 2 handed shots from their chest and shoot free throws from between their legs. It was some time into basketball history before some brave people figured out that a one handed jump sort of shot is much more accurate and consistant. It took some time to get this thought into a lot of heads and now......you will never see a 2 handed shot or a between the legs shot. Granted the golf ball is not in our hand from moving to the rolling excercise to an actual putt, but the hockey puck is not in the hockey players hand and they use the same theory. They would never ever take a shot at the goal holding their stick at the very end with 2 hands together and facing 90 degrees away from the goal. No they split their hands for consistancy and accuarcy and face the target.
No one else does what we do in golf when trying to get the same results. A bowler face the pins, a dart thrower faces the board, a bocce ball player faces the balls, a home run hitter stands similar to us when he wants a home run or line drive just like when I want to hit a drive or iron, but as soon as that baseball player needs accuracy he splits his hands turns towards the pitcher and bunts the ball. Bunting and hitting home runs is as different as driving and putting.
I think the easiest most consistant way to putt a ball would be croquet style or shooting pool style but since those are illegal the next easiest way is sidesaddle. I really don't think there are any valid agruments against it just habits and old ways of thinking. In reality sidesaddle has been around much longer that long putters, belly putters, saw grip, claw grips, right hand low, reverse claw etc... been around longer than all of those.
I really think if we were able to perform some test the results would be clear as day. A good test would be to take a group of 10 and 30 year olds who have never played golf a day in their life. Split the groups in 2, one group is taught how to putt using a conventional putter and the other group is taught the sidesaddle method. At the end of the day who do honestly think will be hitting long putts closer and making more putts w/in 15 feet? I have zero doubt the sidesaddlers would be putting circles around the other group. In fact I would bet that the sidesaddlers after one solid day would be able to out putt 50% of the general golfing population-after one day.
now I need to go put my typing fingers on ice.
Thanks for you time and great site
Thanks Geoff
"but the hockey puck is not in the hockey players hand and they use the same theory. They would never ever take a shot at the goal holding their stick at the very end with 2 hands together and facing 90 degrees away from the goal. No they split their hands for consistancy and accuarcy and face the target."
Although I don't play hockey, I have lived in Toronto for most of my life and have been force-fed NHL hockey on T.V. for much of my life.
Hockey players, afaict, do not generally shoot facing the goalie. They approach from "the point" (the corner at the boards and the blue line) and shoot from an angle.
A 'forward', approaching from the right, tends to skate at an angle of about 45 degrees from the corner towards the net.
He then takes a shot that - in golf - would resemble a 'cut' or a bunker shot. Body angle 45 degrees (or so) 'open' to the net, shot aimed at the net.
What - in the last 40 years - was the greatest scoring invention in hockey?
The curved stick.
The blade of the stick is curved from right to left (for a right-hander). Hockey forwards don't use a "flat stick". Their sticks are curved. Like a 'question mark'.
If the PGA would let me curve my irons and putter faces from right to left, I'd probably hit fewer slices and sink more putts.
I've been grooving the Mangum swing all winter - 1-2 hours every night for about four months (of really ugly winter, here, in Toronto) on a persian rug, indoors - 8-footers. I can hit a guitar pick with moderate consistency.
I tried the sidesaddle putt (with a 'normal' putter) for quite a while tonight. At first, I was really good - at least as good as with the Mangum putt ('beginners luck'). Then, I started going long. Then long and off-line.
Observations:
#1: When I set up facing the guitar pick, I found that I had no clue how to line up my eyes with the putt. The ball was off to my right and I had no way to determine if my perceived line was good. (This, of course, could be due to my unfamiliarity with the technique). I wanted to lean my head sideways so that my right (dominant) eye might get closer to being "over the ball". Nothing worked. But, when I allowed my instincts control the putt - forget the eye lines - the result wasn't too bad (but not perfect).
#2: I found that I actively pushed the putter with my right hand (instead of letting gravity drop it). I could probably un-learn this with enough practice.
#3: I couldn't figure out where to put my right hand on the shaft of the putter. My right hand was 'searching' for the balance-point of the putter which was only a few inches above the head of the putter.
#4: I found that my body did not want to set up facing the target. I wanted to set up about 45 degrees to the left of the target. I tried a bunch of putts that way, too (45 degrees) and they were as successful as the sidesaddle style. The Mangum style was the most successful (but I've been grooving that all winter).
#5: All of the above putts were done on a flat surface. Unrealistic. These should be tried again on a tilted surface to more closely match real conditions (e.g. insert a tilted board underneath the persian rug).
#6: I was very uncomfortable not having an eye-line from the ball to the target. Only the Mangum (0 degree) setup gave me a good eye-line.
Paul great post and I think it's great you at least were trying this method out. Just a few of my personal observations and how I approach the sidesaddle method. First about the hockey stuff, the way you desribed a hockey player taking a shot is pretty much a duplicate of how the hammy style of putting is done. Although some player do place their skates perpendicular to the line some flare out their left skate about 45 degrees to the hole. Most hockey players might not start out in this position but end in it. I stood way more open to the hole again 45 degrees than say Natalie Gulbis or Rich Beem when he was using this method. I also gripped the club further down with my right hand than Natalie does. I really felt like I was simulating a hockey shot and holding the club futher down with my right hand really made me feel like I had 100% total control of my club and this went towards much more accuracy.
The main difference I see between the hammy style and sidesaddle is how much easier it is with the sidesaddle method to make a PERFECT pendulum stroke. I know I had an adavantage right out of the gates b/c I had been putting hammy style for over 3 years, so when I first switched to sidesaddle it felt right at home. That's why I think it would interesting to do a putting test with a group of people who have never putted before. They would have no past thoughts or experiences to think about.
As far as my set up and such, here is how I do it. I do lean to the right and that puts my eyes directly over my ball. This was not something I thought about it just naturaly happened and with my club and shaft bends it would be hard to not set up this way. Which brings me to the point I really think you need a putter that was designed for sidesaddle. Using a coventional putter, belly or even long putter will not give the advantages a sidesaddle putter does. And even with the sidesaddle putters on the market I really think the shaft needs to bend just like mine does. I have tried with a dead straight shaft set in at 10 degrees and I did not like it as much. You need the reverese bend to do 2 things. 1) allow your right arm to clear you right thigh going back and 2) it puts my right hand directly over my ball.
As far as long putts I have found I hit it much closer as well as many more in by not lining up my line on my ball yet rather more or less stepping up to my ball an casualy and naturaly hitting the ball and more times that not it rolls and settles near the hole. And the greatest thing is even if I leave it 4, 5 ,8 10 feet short those lengths of putts feel like gimmee's. They are so easy to line up and hit dead straight. I can't remember the last 3 or 4 footer I have missed besides some funky down hill side sliders.If it is up hill and close to straight it is lights out dead center of the hole with authority. The putts really hold the line well.
I have found my balance point. It took some experimenting but all things being equal it is probably in the same position as a hockey player holds his stick or the same as a lacrosse players hold their stick. Probably close to shoulder width apart. Not too far apart yet not too close either.
As far as lining up putts. Here is my routine. I look behind my ball and see the line. I do this quick and try not to start second guessing myself. I find a spot in front of my ball about 6 inches or so. I line up the line of my ball with that spot. I then then set up my putter behind my ball and make sure the line on my ball is in line with my putter lines. From that point forward I trust my line, there is absolutely no second guessing my line, I trust it and I proceed to make a perfect straight back and straight through pendulum stroke every time.
Again thanks for your trying. I'll end with 2 great quotes.
" The sidesaddle method is as close to a perfect pendulum stroke as you can get, a straight back straight through motion that is easy to repeat." Curtis Strange
"Why do you guys still insist on making this putting thing so difficult?" Sam Snead