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Backstroke too long?

November 16 2008 at 11:10 AM
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Dear Goeff,

Can the backstroke be to long?

If so is the case, what do you do with those strokes?

Could it be fixed with a better tempo on the downstroke?



Thanks

Anders







    
This message has been edited by aceputt from IP address 24.28.240.12 on Nov 16, 2008 5:36 PM


 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
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The Backstroke Can NEVER GET TOO LONG, If ...

November 16 2008, 5:35 PM 

Dear Anders,

No. The backstroke can NEVER get too long, so long as you act rhythmically as intended before pulling the trigger and you pay attention to distance, elevation change, and green speed. Apparently I am the first person to learn about this aspect of the moving human brain and apply it to golf (if not the first person to really see how this works), so permit me to plant a flag on this somewhat dramatic and important point!

What am I talking about? Briefly, the human brain learns and is programmed with DNA NOT to overshoot or move with "dysmetria", since this is "spasmodic" movement, and spastic motion is a) unsuccessful, b) often painful, and c) sometimes dangerous to the self. Failure, Pain, and Threat are very huge "no-no"s that brains learn to stay away from, or else. Imagine reaching too violently (i.e., too fast) for a doorknob: you might break your thumb, will not get the door open, and the Boogeyman behind you will then have the chance to catch you and rip your throat open with his fangs and knives.

A "normal" adult human brain for movement has absolutely learned this lesson, and there is embedded in the brain a barrier to too-big / too-violent motions. So long as the human is relaxed with the usual timing of the world and is paying attention to reality with intention to accomplish his movement goal, the brain BLOCKS "overshoot" (hypermetric) motion. Therefore, staying rhythmical and paying attention in itself PREVENTS going too long in normal humans. This is not a golf thing at all. Additionally, there is a difference to the brain between staying safely within your personal space and reaching too agrressively beyond its boundaries: "undershoot" (failure without pain) not nearly as costly or dreaded as "overshoot" (failure plus pain / danger).

cerebellum.jpg

The neuroscience is that usually (grasping cups, doorknobs) the motor cortex activates a "ballistic" impulse for a limb movement, and the cerebellum conditions this impulse to the right level and then activates braking muscles to slow and then stop and hold the final correct position. What seems to happen in a putting stroke is, if the golfer simply makes a rhythmical and instinctive backstroke, the cerebellum coordinates the body (vision, balance, proprioception in space) with the objective reality of timing such that the backstroke impulse in and of itself is the WHOLE BALLGAME for distance control. Once this impulse starts the stroke (putter, arms, hands, shoulders) backwards towards the top of the backstroke, that's it. The rest of the stroke -- stroke size, downstroke acceleration and velocity pattern, and impact force -- are all set and determined by the initial backstroke impulse.

Everything about distance control is determined instinctively by the "charge" or "power" of this impulse, which in turn determines how FAR BACK the size of the backstroke will proceed before coasting in gravity upwards to a stop at the top of the backstroke. The top of the backstroke position is EXACTLY WHAT THE INSTINCTS INTENDED FOR THIS PUTT'S DISTANCE when the impulse charge was set, but that calibration ASSUMES the golfer will stick to the timing pattern he intended to employ before pulling the trigger. The brain instincts learn and know "fact for fact", and never calculate or compute anything at all. One fact is "my putter is this far back in a backstroke that will have a downstroke timing pattern that is the usual"; the associated, KNOWN fact that necessarily comes with this first fact is: "therefore the impact velocity and force of my putter against the ball will be whatever corresponds to that backstroke size, as usual."

Do the instincts get this right? Hell yes, because you're not dead, lying in a ditch starving somewhere! Do this instincts get this right very consistently? Hell yes -- when is the last time in the past five years that you walked up to a door, reached for the doorknob, and missed it? Or, worse, stopped just short, worried, and practiced two reaches to make sure you "got the feel" of this reach before stepping in and executing the reach under the dread of losing you "touch feel" if you waited more than a few seconds while it rapidly evaporated from you brain?

The Instincts pay attention and assume you will use the usual, best-known timing pattern and then work in a backwards-chaining process from success to scrounging in the toolbox for the right tools to make it happen.

All "Fact" for "Fact" Associations in the Brain:

1. From PUTT REALITY to required IMPACT FORCE

First, the instincts assess the world as it is (distance, elevation change, green speed, ball, putter heft). From this the instincts conclude: "you need a stroke with force downstroke impact X.00127 units thru impact online." That's because of your putter, the ball, your timing, the green speed, and the distance all amalgamate into a single "fact" and the OTHER fact that necessarily goes with this (because the instincts have learned the world and its physics and not to go against reality) is: "so, given the REALITY, the putt requires impact force X.00127

2. From required IMPACT FORCE to BACKSTROKE SIZE

From the required IMPACT FORCE, the instincts assume backstroke timing and downstroke timing. Given the downstroke timing, "fact" of the putt reality can ONLY use the corresponding "fact" of backstroke size Y.09467", one of a thousand or so possible backstrokes from your finely graded dial of backstrokes to choose from.

3. From BACKSTROKE SIZE to BACKSTROKE-STARTING IMPULSE

From this (backstroke size Y.09467), the instincts associate the "fact" of backstroke size Y.09467 with impulse force that starts the backstroke with a ballistic toss-back that thereafter coasts to its own conclusion. The brain knows from backstroke-starting impulse Z.9823 that your arms, hands, and putter will then head back and up while being dragged to a coasting stop at the top of one and only one backstroke size or position. This connection ASSUMES the golfer adheres to the usual backstroke timing, as there is no alternative LEARNED FACT-FOR-FACT PATTERN such as an image of the size of backstroke that goes with impulse charge, or scientific calculation or symbolic / mathematical / measurement units expression of the relationship, or even a nebulous subjective "feel" state that corresponds with backstroke impulse charge. These are example of conscious efforts to "regulate" force control that by-pass the instinctive, innate nexus of "if you want impact force IF20.216 then use backstroke size S15.175, reached in the usual time with backstroke impulse BI31.092 and then generated in the downstroke by the usual timing pattern down."

So the brain knows that backstroke size PERFECT (Y.09467) is a "fact" that goes ONLY with the "fact" of backstroke-starting force / impulse and that both these "facts" correspond ONLY with ONE backstroke size and all these three "facts" almalgamated correspond to one and only one PERFECT (very nearly so) impact force for the putt in reality -- ALL ASSUMING THE GOLFER DOESN'T JUMP INTO THE MIDDLE OF THIS AND CHANGE THE BLOOMIN' TIMING OF HOW LONG THE BACKSTROKE TAKES TO HAPPEN OR HOW LONG THE DOWNSTROKE TAKES TO HAPPEN. In other words: stay rhythmical and there is NEVER an overshoot.

Don't believe it? Then you haven't experimented any to find out.

Whether your backstroke timing is the "one potato" tempo of reality on Earth such that the world completes the downstroke thereafter in half that time, or your timing is a more control-freak "one-two-three" or "back-stroke-thru!" 2:1 rhythm with a quicker tempo doesn't matter, as the instincts generate identical impact forces for the same putt using either timing pattern. No overshoots either way. Ever. Unless you're not paying attention or are coming out of your rhythm.

If you pay attention and act rhythmically and then overshoot, you probably have a dysfunction in your cerebellum that needs looking at. There are a number of possible disease processes or insults that cause this dysmetria.

Consequently, golfers who don't know this fear something that doesn't need to exist: gassing the putt too far. Since the instincts always size the backstroke correctly (and NEVER allow too big of a backstroke), a fear of the backstroke causing the putt to run too far is irrational. Even so, so are golfers irrational, so this irrational fear is powerful, since the irrational rules the uninformed person whenever the uninformed steps out of the comfort-zone of familiar patterns and habits (such as shorter, quicker backstrokes).

These golfers fear the "too-big backstroke" and so mishandle touch issues their whole lives. Your question about it means you (understandably) belong with this vast majority of golfers. But once a golfer knows about the "ant-spaz" (hypermetria) thing in the brain, and experiments enough to accept its reality, that golfer loses fear of going long ENTIRELY and all mental energy formerly wasted in that direction now goes into the bank of paying attention to green speed, distance, and elevation change. More to the point, these golfers KNOW that a hint of aggressive spice in the backstroke is ALWAYS helpful to make sure that stupid fear doesn't shorten the backstroke or change the downstroke timing.

That's what you have to experiment with: look and pay attention and then "boom!" start the backstroke with rhythm so it lasts as long as usual and then make impact on the usual timing and WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. What happens is: The backstroke never gets too long AND the ball never runs too far past to cause any concern.

Sports science academics simply don't seem to understand a) how the world trains the brain to timing patterns to enable the instincts to make successful movements that correspond with reality, or 2) that the instincts really operate with a "fact" for "fact" pattern learned from the world with this timing necessarily embedded in the relationships and never calculate anything in the manner of a physicists or a computer to "regulate and control" body motion and forces.

The instincts help the golfer FIT INTO OBJECTIVE REALITY with timing. So-called "feel" is an after-the-fact, tag-along that is only correct in hindsight and is in any event subjective and not a sound basis for predicting the future consequences of intended movement, as timing always is. The factors that the cerebellum uses to get this "metria" correct for reality are position, velocity, and time. In physics, that's pretty much it so long as the masses and the surface conditions aren't changing. See S. Vahdat, A. Maghsoudi, M.H. Hasani, F. Towhidkhah, S. Gharibzadeh, and M. Jahed, Adjustable primitive pattern generator: A novel cerebellar model for reaching movements, Neuroscience Letters, vol. 406, (no. 3), pp. 232-234, Oct 2006.

Here's a short flash neuroscience movie about the cerebellum.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist

Offering Free Podcast Tips for Putting Every Friday on GolfSmarterTips.com.

The best putting instruction book in golf history is now available for purchase in hardback or as an immediate ebook download: Optimal Putting: Brain Science, Instincts, and the Four Skills of Putting (2008, 282-pages)

Geoff Mangum's
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This message has been edited by aceputt from IP address 24.28.240.12 on Nov 17, 2008 6:27 AM
This message has been edited by aceputt from IP address 24.28.240.12 on Nov 16, 2008 6:18 PM


 
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83.251.154.42

Re: The Backstroke Can NEVER GET TOO LONG, If ...

November 17 2008, 6:20 AM 



-"The top of the backstroke position is EXACTLY WHAT THE INSTINCTS INTENDED FOR THIS PUTT'S DISTANCE when the impulse charge was set, but that calibration ASSUMES the golfer will stick to the timing pattern he intended to employ before pulling the trigger."

So, is it wrong to say that a lot of golfer hasnīt progammed one tempo and that a "miss judged" backstroke than could appear?

Will there be a next visit to Sweden, if so, when will it be?
/anders



 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
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Changing Stroke Timing & Coming to Sweden

November 17 2008, 6:49 AM 

Dear Anders,

The vast majority of golfers don't know the relationship between constant stroke timing regardless of distance and varying backstroke size in order to vary distance. Most golfer try to "feel" the amount of hit that seems to be required or use some abstract rules to try to ballpark the force (e.g., 10 cm of backstroke for each meter of putt, or similar). The golfer who knows this or who at least does not overrule the instinctive process all the time simply takes responsibility for the tempo and rhythm of the stroke and NEVER concerns himself with worrying about, judging, monitoring, or picking and setting the SIZE of the backstroke. To the instinctive golfer's conscious mind, the SIZE of the backstroke is completely uninteresting.

The misjudged backstroke will USUALLY appear when the golfer abandons the instinctive process for its selection and substitutes a conscious, analytical, rule-based approach subject to the whims of irrational emotions, ignorant habits, and subjective vagueness of "feel". Just ask Chris Riley why he pulled the four-foot putt at the 72nd hole at Torrey Pines that knocked him out of a playoff for the win, after having grown up on that course, or ask Hunter Mahan why he gassed a short putt thru the break for the outright win and then ask Anthony Kim why he gassed a breaking putt to stay alive with Hunter Mahan in the New Zealand Open yesterday. This sort of mistake is rampant in professional golf.

The SAM PuttLab teaching these days is basically "speed up your downstroke with more acceleration", to match up to a Tour model notion of what is a good "stroke". But this approach to changing stroke timing is divorced from touch, read and aiming. That's pretty suspect science. It's the same analytical approach above in a double compounding of ignorance -- one layer for messing with touch without intending to do so or knowing what adjustments to stroke timing may change in touch, and a second layer for attempting to design / impose a stroke timing pattern that strays off base from the world's most lethal connecting timing pattern in the brain. No wonder Henrik Stenson (or was it Robert Karlsson) recently wondered why his strokes were great on the SAM at home but he wasn't benefiting from this in play.

I'd love to come to Sweden this Spring, and will certainly be in Denmark then, so it is not at all unlikely I can train across to Malmo or perhaps Stockholm. All I really require to make that happen is a sponsoring pro or organization or school or course and a handful of golfers willing to help defray expenses. I'll see what I can make happen on this end. If you have any ideas, now is a good time to air them.

Thanks for the interest!

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist

Offering Free Podcast Tips for Putting Every Friday on GolfSmarterTips.com.

The best putting instruction book in golf history is now available for purchase in hardback or as an immediate ebook download: Optimal Putting: Brain Science, Instincts, and the Four Skills of Putting (2008, 282-pages)

Geoff Mangum's
PuttingZone
PuttingZone Clinics
Flatstick Forum
PuttingZone Blog & Podcast
PuttingZone Channel on YouTube
PuttingZone Picasweb Image Gallery

Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not. Over 2.5 million visits -- 200,000 monthly from 50+ countries -- and growing strong.



 
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Re: Changing Stroke Timing & Coming to Sweden

November 17 2008, 7:06 AM 

Thanks a lot Geoff!

So the solution is really to help them to putt instinctive.

Would love to do a school with you in Stockholm. How many people would be needed and to what cost?

/Anders

 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
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Instinctive Timing not Feel or Rules

November 17 2008, 4:41 PM 

Yes, instinctive timing REMOVES distance control and replaces it with predictable touch (consistent delivery speed at end of all putts) via consistent timing. By timing I mean a stable tempo (the Earth's "one potato" tempo for arms or something quicker, never slower) plus rhythm in the 2 beats for the back stroke and half that time from top of backstroke thru impact (the 2:1 ratio of a pendulum from top of follow-thru back to top of backstroke -- 2 beats -- then down thru impact -- one beat and then on to return to a coasting stop at the top of the follow-thru again with one more beat, or 2 beats both directions.)

Backstroke timing would be easier if golfers started their strokes from the top of the follow-thru and simply relaxed and let the swing begin from there down and thru backwards to the top of the backstroke, and then transition direction to swing back forwards thru the impact area and coast to a stop at the top of the follow-thru where it began. This stroke has no golfer intentional-moving parts once he sets the putter at the top of the follow-thru. Incidentally, if you try this, you will discover that the instincts "pick" the RIGHT size for the top of the follow-thru at the beginning for the impact force that results from this choice, so the distance control is equally lethal putting this way as it is putting with a toss-back start of the backstroke from a static address position at the bottom of the stroke. Both approaches end up yielding the SAME backstroke size and hence the same impact force resulting from that pick.

A clinic could probably get off the ground with as few as ten players paying 200 euros for the day, with a maximum of about 20 or so. This is the 8-hour option. If required for scheduling or budget concerns, the 8-hour option can be replaced with one or two half-day 4-hour clinics for 150 euros each with a class maximum of about 10 each session. If I'm already in Denmark, thew train over is not that much extra cost to bear, so that relieves pressure on how many students and how much the charge has to be.

Incidentally, I am keen to certify additional Swedish PuttingZone coaches, and this is two-days 1-on-1 or small group training that usually has a 1,500 euro fee. But if a pro sponsors a clinic that generates net proceeds for me to this level, the certification fee is waived and I come two days early for private training of the pro and then we jointly present the clinic, thereafter being associated together in learning and teaching and earning together.

Let me know if this is something that interests you. here is further detail on this webpage.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist

Offering Free Podcast Tips for Putting Every Friday on GolfSmarterTips.com.

The best putting instruction book in golf history is now available for purchase in hardback or as an immediate ebook download: Optimal Putting: Brain Science, Instincts, and the Four Skills of Putting (2008, 282-pages)

Geoff Mangum's
PuttingZone
PuttingZone Clinics
Flatstick Forum
PuttingZone Blog & Podcast
PuttingZone Channel on YouTube
PuttingZone Picasweb Image Gallery

Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not. Over 2.5 million visits -- 200,000 monthly from 50+ countries -- and growing strong.


 
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Re: Instinctive Timing not Feel or Rules

November 18 2008, 11:09 AM 

Ok, super. Than I know. I will get back to you regarding the clinic.
To be able to get certified at the same time would be great.

Take care
Anders

 
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