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Practice & putter types

March 14 2009 at 6:42 AM
Toni  (Login TMKMT)
from IP address 85.156.195.129

Hi.
Is training with a diff type of putter than your tamer? Have 4 putters that are all different, and practice at 2 different locations... Hosel, insert y/n main differences

 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
Forum Owner
24.28.240.12

Practice for Skills, Practice for Putter

March 15 2009, 4:00 AM 

Dear Toni,

Actually, motor learning science would ask: "What are you concerned about learning? How to putt with any putter or how to putt with a specific putter?"

These are two different practice purposes.

If you are practicing to learn the skill(s) of putting, the skill(s) need(s) to transfer from ANY putter to ANY green to ANY putt. So, changing putters is a good way to practice and learn the skills of putting. Exposing yourself to different situations and scenarios (different putts with one ball only or different putters, different greens, different breaks etc.) is called "random" practice, as opposed to "block" practice of exactly the same thing over and over. Random practice "transfers" better to on-course performance than "block" practice mainly because the variety of perceptual/physical cues that you are dealing with forces you to pay attention to the ones that are constant with the skill -- reading enough break by seeing the true shape and slope and speed of the surface, setting up to and aiming the putter face accurately, knowing the look and feel of square aim and square online stroke movement, paying attention to your timing, and so forth. In this sense, switching up with putters is probably a good strategy to enhance the learning and transfer of putting skills.

If you are practicing to learn how to use a specific putter, certainly you want to have lots of experience and familiarity with the putter. However, the way putters are designed, unfortunately, many designers think they should "make" the putter swing in certain ways and encourage you to swing the putter and setup to the putter in certain ways, so they design these "ideas" of how you should putt into the putter for its look and feel and its physics and stroke pattern as well. This is tremendously ill-conceived. There are setup and stroke neutral design features and then there are setup and stroke interfering / influencing design features. Offset hosels change your setup and stroke dynamics, for instance, and "toe flow" putters give the putter head a physics that influences the stroke so that the putter face tends to open in the back-and-forward stroking and then "hook" shut during impact. These sorts of un-obvious design features basically make your skills in putting soundly harder to perform, more complicated, because you usually need to correct or reduce or eliminate these influences (for example, a tighter grip on the handle effectively "chokes out" a designers "toe flow" -- a good thing, but why should you have to?).

Because most putter design features that are marketed as solutions for golfers without independent putting skills don't really help near as much as simply learning the skills helps, it is far easier and more common for putter designers to come up with features in a tool that unnecessarily complicate the skills or changes them in a bad way. Picking a putter today is often more about avoiding the unwanted and the ill-conceived "helpfulness" of the designer than it is deciding which designer is doing the best job on a common approach among designers (such as variable weighting schemes, aiming gimmicks, shapes that suggest stroke path, certain hoseling schemes, and the like).

Fundamentally, designing putters does not make a person knowledgeable about how to putt soundly -- instead, designing putters makes the designer tuned into what the masses will buy plus an odd empirical fact or two about what happens when most amateurs or most pros make a stroke. A person who first starts with clear ideas about the skills of putting and then proceeds to the design of a putter to help and support and enhance the performance of those skills is on a much sounder basis in designing a putter than most designers responding to what is marketable. Marketing putters is mostly about the "hottest new gimmick" like variable weighting, face grooves, etc., and these features are almost uniformly offering benefits that are tiny, tiny, tiny for performance when compared to what the golfer gets out of simply learning better skill in performing reading putts, aiming at targets, stroking where aimed, and controlling distance. Science quite frankly proves this very dramatically.

So, combined with the notion of random practice being a helpful approach as it promotes "transfer" from the variety, there is a paradoxical answer to this second issue: if you want to learn something useful about putting with a specific putter, you can benefit by switching putters (at least in practicing) as a way to punch up in higher relief exactly what is going on with the specific putter design, for good or bad. Is the sole of a mallet putter better for your stroke than the sole of a Bullseye putter or a blade or flange design? You don't find out unless you practice with different putters. Do you aim better with your favorite putter or with a putter you found in a thrift store barrel? Similarly, making a good repeating stroke with your favorite putter often means getting in tune more closely with its weighting and handle shape and the like, and getting another putter in your hands for a short while makes these features of your favorite putter a little more evident to you.

Personally, I let different putters battle for my favor. This may be because I am exposed to and curious about many different designs and want to explore them, but at any rate, I believe I learn more about a specific design when I have some perspective on what influence that design has on how I perform the skills. Even with an old, currently unmarketable putter design in my hands, I seldom blame the designer when I miss a putt, as I should know how to hammer a nail with a wide variety of hammers. By far, most of the time, I am fighting to tame out of existence some modern designer's notions of what I ought to be doing when I perform with reference to features that are NOT stroke and setup neutral. The putter design that makes me work the least when I wag the tail usually ends up winning the competition for my favor, since my focus is on the task, not on reacting to the tail wagging me according to a designer's notions of how the tail and the dog interact.

In this sense, what Stan Utley does is perfectly right: when he teaches his style of putting, he also has to CHANGE your putter. His style works better with a much flatter lie angle and with much more loft in the face (he teaches starting with 6 or so degrees and then forward-pressing most of this out with a hands-ahead setup and stroke motion) and also a putter that has a toe-heavier weighting that will snap-hook the face thru impact because he teaches approaching impact with a face that is open and closing back to square with lots of rotation. So he arrives with his putter-altering tools in his SUV and CHANGES what designers sold you.

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My preference is for a simpler stroke that lets the putter swing squarely down the line thru impact, with a body action that is independent of the lie of the putter and without the "help" of a putter design that shuts the face thru impact and without the "preciousness" of any specific putter being very important to whether I can make a good stroke, and without setup, ball position, stroke path, loft, and timing of stroke all being critical to whether I can make the ball roll where I aim it with good touch.

It may be true that you want to really like and like using your favorite putter, but the tail does not wag the dog. Period. Not even a little. And, even more radically, the dog doesn't really have just the one tail to wag, either. The dog can wag ANY tail!

If your favorite putter's design is also the design that works best with your body-action (setup and stroke movement) in comparison to other putters, then the occasional exposure to other putters make you appreciate this sense of fit even better when you get Old Betsy back in your hands. If not, exposure to other designs points this lack of optimization out to you.

The real hard truth of the matter is that most golfers would probably benefit from using two putters in a round -- one for shorter putts and another for longer putts. And obviously many golfers benefit from a change of putters. Traditionally, most highly skilled golfers on the greens don't change their tools often if at all, but the notion that they "love" and can use BEST only the one true design that is for them is baloney. I have never heard of a golfer who could not improve his or her putting skill, and one of the roadblocks that prevents or retards the improvement is the somewhat adolescent notion that a "favorite" putter design is REQUIRED for that golfer to putt best. The reality is that the "favorite" putter more usually restricts the golfer to a given pattern of aiming and setup and stroke, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS IMPROVING AND THEREFORE CHANGING. It's sort of like Linus from the cartoon "Peanuts" dragging his filthy blanket along in the dust.

Bottom line: don't be the least afraid to practice with different putters. You learn real skill better getting un-fixated on one given design and you also learn more about how best to use a specific putter by exposure to contrast from practicing occasionally with a putter fairly different from your favorite "hammer".

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist

Offering Free Podcast Tips for Putting Every Friday on GolfSmarterTips.com.

The best putting instruction book in golf history is now available for purchase in hardback or as an immediate ebook download: Optimal Putting: Brain Science, Instincts, and the Four Skills of Putting (2008, 282-pages)

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sammy
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65.95.176.171

Practice??? Pracctice ??!!!

March 15 2009, 7:01 PM 

Excellent and thoughtful message, Geoff ... but answer me this: Why do most people who attempt to play golf inevitably come to the conclusion that their clubs or their putter is somehow faulty because they can't achieve their desired results, and without practice or knowledge?

Once, and only once, when playing golf with a well-educated man, he cursed his putter over and over again .. "This putter is no damn good!!!" Finally out of exasperation listening to his whining, I outright told him: "Your putter is fine .. you're no damn good." He looked at me in utter shock and amazement and left the golf course in a huff.

Why do most people blame their equipment, or search for "better" equipment, but are unable to reflect on their own decrepit performance? Is most of humanity subjective, self-centered, totally ignorant and only seeking self-gratification (aka 'fun') ?!

 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
Forum Owner
24.28.240.12

Humans are Habits plus Emotion

March 16 2009, 8:48 AM 

Dear sammy,

Neuroscience teaches that humans are more about habits and subjective emotion than about rational objectivity and frankness. The habit is safety and comfort, and the emotion is a reaction to confirmation of the habit or to challenge to the habit. People generally don't really want to improve at golf near as much as they want golfing experience to "confirm" their habitual attitudes and beliefs about themselves. When Aristotle says that "humans are sociable animals", he really means that humans prefer the herd. If you doubt this, just wear an orange suit to church some day -- you'll quickly find out that the dominant reaction is distaste for you personally because you aren't blending in properly, which suggests that you do not necessarily agree with the habitual beliefs and attitudes of the group. A person who challenges the comfort zone of the herd is called a "pariah" and they get nailed to a tree, don't they?

It's not that people are mean and stupid; it's more that they "think" they are rational when they really are just defending their comfort zone all day long. A drunk does not really believe they cannot stop; and if they ever get convinced they cannot stop, then they start believing that it's not really necessary to stop so not being able to stop doesn't matter; and if they get convinced that it's really necessary to stop and they need help stopping, they start ignoring that. At all costs, the drunk stays a drunk because that's the comfort zone of an addiction. "Normal" people are pretty much the same with respect to their comfort zone of habits and beliefs.

I met a retired CEO who was a financial success in life and an Alpha-male "boss" type. My friend introduced us and told "Sam" that I was a putting teacher. Sam said "my putting's fine -- I putt very well." I couldn't resist, so I said, "Really? What's your best-ever score?" Sam said (somewhat proudly but a little guardedly as he wondered why I had asked), "74." I asked, "How long ago was that?" Sam answered, "About 20 years ago." So I said, "Well, perhaps it would surprise you to hear that I teach 16-year-old kids how to shoot 62s by improving their putting, and they are already putting better than you because they come to me with an "average" score of 74 or so, and with a best-ever score of perhaps 68-69." Sam looked a little puzzled and put off.

But I don't let up, because I feel a bit aggressive: "Sam, the fact that you haven't bettered your best-ever score in the past 20 years tells me that you aren't getting any better at golf and that you don't really putt so well. Combined with your belief that your putting is fine, this all tells me you are not serious about improving -- you just like playing, but don't really care at all about getting better. I'm glad I found that out about you, because as a putting instructor, I can only spend time helping people who want to improve, and the sooner I can find out what sort of golfer a person is, the less time I waste on people not interested in getting better." He looked a bit puzzled, but then he seemed to get what I was saying: "I guess that's right. I like playing and I would hope that playing and practicing makes me better at golf, but it really hasn't. I must not be serious about getting better." I echoed that: "Sam, no one gets better any at all until they admit they aren't serious about improving their golf, and then CHANGE that attitude. If they think they're good and don't need to improve, they surely won't ever get any better."

So he went off to play a round.

So it goes.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist

Offering Free Podcast Tips for Putting Every Friday on GolfSmarterTips.com.

The best putting instruction book in golf history is now available for purchase in hardback or as an immediate ebook download: Optimal Putting: Brain Science, Instincts, and the Four Skills of Putting (2008, 282-pages)

Geoff Mangum's
PuttingZone
PuttingZone Clinics
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PuttingZone Channel on YouTube
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Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.

Over 2.5 million visits -- 200,000 monthly from 50+ countries -- and growing strong.


    
This message has been edited by aceputt from IP address 24.28.240.12 on Mar 19, 2009 10:52 AM
This message has been edited by aceputt from IP address 24.28.240.12 on Mar 19, 2009 10:50 AM


 
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sammy
(no login)
65.95.131.214

Re: Humans are Habits plus Emotion

March 17 2009, 11:02 PM 

Sturgeons Law - Ninety percent of everything is crap

PGA Statistics - Ninety percent of the world's 50 Million golfers cannot break 100.

Sammy's Revelation - Ninety percent of all golfers are crap.


Sooo, Geoff ..... here we have the state of the game of golf ... mostly being 'played' by clowns laughing on the outside and crying on the inside, while trying to have 'fun'..!!!

Okay, let's write off 45 Million golfers and see what we have in the remaining 5 Million .. not much.

Their usual source of 'knowledge' are the equipment manufacturers and golf store clerks ... together with their highly developed 'feeel'. They believe in the 'best' equipment to improve their game. Most don't have time to 'practice', let alone read and learn. And above all they constantly search for 'fun' in golf. Good luck.

But wait ... the golf 'gurus' have the answers to all of golfer's travails ... just use the 'gravity drop' ... no, wait ... it's 'stack & tilt' ... unless you are a true purist and only learn "5 Lessons" from the best of all time. Science???!!!! Nope ... no time for all that confusing complicated stuff because learning stuff from books in no 'fun' ... besides, who can think of all those things when you're swinging or putting ..!!!!

Truly, golf is the sport of last resort for most ... because even croquet or lawn bowling requires too much energy. Besides, as a golfer, one can buy the clubs of your favorite pro, go to a championship golf course, and then pretend you are him on the course you saw him play on tv.

Sooo, Geoff ... what's the fastest way to make a fortune from these 12-year old mentalities in adult bodies searching for an instant fix??? Sell them ethereal knowledge ... or magical toys which will elevate their delusions to heights never before felt..???

Do the world's golfers seek intangible knowledge ... or ... prefer tangible toys and the fun it gives them owning 'the best'...???

 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
Forum Owner
24.28.240.12

The "Fun" of Hitting Range balls

March 18 2009, 10:09 AM 

Dear sammy,

Let me answer that by saying "why" I LOVE hitting range balls. I think my answer is something like this:

An animal's ability to affect something far away is intrinsically interesting. If there is a squirrel at the far end of the driving range, 250-270 yards away, can I "shoot" this small white projectile exactly that far and on that line so as to bounce near the squirrel and send him scampering back into the tree line? Or can I land my tee shot on a handkerchief at 260 yards off in the distance? Or can I shoot my archery arrow across the Zen Dojo yard to the straw target 50 yards away with the right state of mind that sticks the arrow dead in the center of the target? Children start out not knowing this glorious ability to affect distant reality, but as soon as they start throwing a baseball or shooting a basketball they get it. Golf has that same aspect and is really far off. Big game hunters doubtless experience the same with shots at the quarry standing 300 yards off. Snipers today can kill a man at 1/4th a mile off (440 yards) or more with a 50-caliber projectile so long as they factor in windage and gravity drop over the distance with projectile velocity. Golf is a benign form of assassination.

I think this basic predator action underlies why golf is enjoyed mostly in the full swing and mostly by males.

But the "game" of golf can be viewed either as "fun swinging" or "a test of the ability to post a score on a given course or in a given competition". This confusion about what golf is all about is fostered by the fact that golf is mostly a "solitary" outdoor activity, where score keeping depends on the individual. All that changes when the game is played in public or against others -- no more room for slackness and sort of avoiding the reality that one's game is not up to snuff.

People are free to choose, and should be aware that they need to choose, between the sort of interest they have in golf. Unless you choose "the game for scoring", why would you worry so much about getting your game to "look like" what the pros can do? That is basically ego-protection. Once a golfer is no longer concerned to delude themselves or others about what sort of game they have and like, the better that golfer is able to improve and enjoy playing golf.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist

Offering Free Podcast Tips for Putting Every Friday on GolfSmarterTips.com.

The best putting instruction book in golf history is now available for purchase in hardback or as an immediate ebook download: Optimal Putting: Brain Science, Instincts, and the Four Skills of Putting (2008, 282-pages)

Geoff Mangum's
PuttingZone
PuttingZone Clinics
Flatstick Forum
PuttingZone Channel on YouTube
PuttingZone Picasweb Image Gallery


Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.

Over 2.5 million visits -- 200,000 monthly from 50+ countries -- and growing strong.

 
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sammy
(no login)
65.95.170.178

Re: The "Fun" of Hitting Range balls

March 18 2009, 11:02 PM 

Ah yes ...."fun swinging", as you say ... Geoff ...!!!

Score: 125 (~triple bogey golfer)

Putts: 45 + 4 practice strokes/putt = 180 strokes
Swings: 80 + 4 practice swings/try = 320 swings
Total ............................................ 500 swings & strokes/round
(Of course, penalty strokes per USGA rules are ignored otherwise the score would exceed 150!)

With this kind of effort on the golf course, it's a wonder there is not more improvement!!!

Now from the ridiculous to the sublime ........

Your golf "LOVE" model is superficial. I prefer the "Freudian" model replete with the symbolisms that I dare not provide because young junior golfers do read this open forum. Suffice it to say that the adult recreational golfer's subconscious and unconscious psyche perceives golf as a salacious 'ritual' ... and golf equipment manufacturers blatantly exploit that vulnerable state of mind.

You know what I'm talking about, Geoff ... because I suspect you have also delved into Freudian psychoanalysis, as you, an autodidact, have done for golf.

Far be it for me to begrudge people their fun, but unfortunately for the game of golf, novice golfers attempt to learn the game bass ackward ... from tee to green. The best way to do it is from green to tee, and keeping your driver on the driving range until you can consistently hit the ball 200 yards straight. To learn the game in a serious manner, one should join a small golf course which usually empties out an hour before sunset ... then take a 7-iron, a sand wedge and a pocketful of cheap balls ... and walk the course using those clubs .. and 3 - 4 times a week. If you can't hit one club properly, why carry 14 useless clubs? Alternatively, take a 9-iron and a putter .. no need for a bulky bag, just two clubs and walk the course. You will sleep better and be a lot healthier too. As you progress, get a sunday bag and carry a few more clubs until you can play a controlled game regardless of the score. You learn the driver on the range and shorter clubs on the range and course. Trying to cheat only playing on the weekends will forever damn you to the status of a clown .. laughing on the outside and crying on the inside. That can't be 'fun' nor 'love' of the game.

If serious golfers would sit down and read your Optimal Putting .. which is an easy read and not as complex as your amazingly detailed responses on this forum ... these intelligent adults would become decent recreational golfers. Interestingly, I think I am the only one on this forum to have asked you a question on Optimal Putting .... maybe things will pick up as respectable golfers absorb what you have written. Give them time ....


 
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