Kymani (Login kymani) from IP address 74.130.193.69
Hey Geoff,
I would love to hear your and others thoughts on Charles Barley's swing. I know we are talking about his full swing and not putting but it seems to me that a guy like you would have some answers for him. More than any swing coach or head coach like Rotella. I have been watching the episodes of the Haney project on Golf Ch. and just heard Hank say that it is not in Charles' head it is in his swing. It seems like that can not be true, that it has to be in his head. There has to be some neurology at work. It seems as if Hank just keeps working on his technique and swing mechanics. From being a student of yours it seems to me that Hank should not be trying to figure what Charles is doing during his swing but WHY. What is going on in his head to make that swing happen. As we just saw on tonights episode, Hank can TEACH ALL OF THE SWING MECHANICS HE WANTS but if he does not figure what is the cause of those swings he will never solve that riddle. What say you?
(Premier Login aceputt) Forum Owner 87.219.105.224
A "Swing" versus "Swinging"
March 24 2009, 3:00 PM
Thanks for the encouragement!
The little I've seen of Barkley's swing doesn't qualify me to speak at all, so here goes!
In neuroscience, there is a difference between talking words one at a time and singing, between taking steps one at a time and dancing. So there is probably a difference between making a swing one piece at a time and swinging. People with Parkinson's disease have a hard time getting a movement started, but if they once get going, they can do it with a nice rhythm. The way to get it going is not one piece at a time with instruction, but just to get Charles to swing something, like hist fist or elbows or a sock with a rock inside it or a swing blade for cutting grass or a baby to rock to sleep.
I would get him swinging first in any cadence or rhythm or pace or speed he wanted, and then increase the violence / power in step-up doses. Also, no ball. He's likely "trying to do the swing correctly" instead of just swinging something.
Charles Barkley is 6'6" and ~250 lbs. His body genotype is somewhat endomorphic .. e.g. barrel-shaped "round mound" physique.
His original "hitched" swing suggests he is trying to swing the club too vertically, perhaps because his clubs are too short and he bends over too much .. disconnecting his hip rotation from his upper body rotation which manifests itself in his arms. Another possible explanation is he is trying to think his way through the downstroke .. trying to match his body rotation to his arm action, causing him to 'hitch' or stop the swing to collect himself as he attempts to 'hit' the ball.
According to the golfswing book "The LAWs of the Golf Swing - Body Type, Your Golf Swing and Master Your Game" -- by Adams, Tomasi, Suttie ... Barkley could well be a "width" player with a flatter and shorter swing. It appears that Hank Haney has corrected Barkley's posture and most likely properly fitted his golf clubs to his new smoother more posturally upright swing. The 'hitch' is gone because he has practiced "1000 swings per day" as part of Haney's training regimen.
I have seen people putting with a 'hitch' ... stopping at the end of the backstroke and hesitating before attempting to hit the ball on the downstroke. Obviously, people who are insecure at hitting the ball will attempt to think their way through a swing or putt, and hesitate at some point to collect their thoughts before they make the final attempt to hit the ball.
The brain conceives strange strategies to overcome uncertainty, confusion, even fear at the golfswing/stroke ... but eventually it figures out the whole gestalt and forces the body to perform something.
Yeah but Sammy the hitch is not gone. If you saw the most recent episode as soon as Charles got into a "real" golfing situation on a real course with other playing partners, the hitch came right back, exactly as it was from the get go. That is why I am asking if it has nothing to do with swing mechanics but there is something going on in that head of his? And unless that can be figured out no swing lessons from any of the best teachers in the world will fix his problem.
Sammy. Does that video look like a real golfing situation? Did you even read me previous post? They showed that on the episode the other night. He and Hank thought everything was going well UNTIL they hit a real golf course and he got into a real round of golf. Outside of a t.v. studio or a range with 1000 balls in front of him. Then the hitch came right back. His swing was identical to what it was before he met up with Hank. Hank was furious. But Hank then went onto say that it is not in his head but in his swing. That is why I decided to ask Geoff what he thought, b/c to me that did not sound correct. To me it has to be something in his head.Somebody has to figure out what causes him to make that swing and it is not b/c is swing is not flat enough, or he's casting etc. there is something else at work.
Not everybody is suitable to play golf. They may be handicapped with a mental or a physical infirmity ... and shouldn't venture forth on a golf course.
Some just buy golf equipment to own and admire the sculptured artistry, like those who literally fall in love with a certain design of driver, irons or even putters. Some even think that magic has been engineered into the designs because it's been machined from a virgin block of 303 stainless steel and has the most gorgeous graphic inscriptions.
I think putters are the most magical of all the golf clubs because it must do 42% of all the scoring in a round of golf. Just imagine ... 13 clubs for 58% and one lonely putter for 42% .. now that's not fair ..!!!!
Oh ... as for Barkley ... I have this suspicion he intentionally reverted back to his old form so the market audience keeps on talking about his "swing" ... it's called showbiz "notoriety"...!!!!
Wanna bet that Barkley will suddenly appear in a Nike Golf commercial, telling everybody that the latest model Sasquatch Sumo Dymo driver solved all his swing woes ..???!!!!!
I agree with you on your club theory. It is like 15 handicapers hitting Titleist 695s. Just because they look so good, yet they can't hit them for nothing. But I have seen several 15s hitting Titleist irons that are out of their league and it has to have something to do with the beauty of them.
Maybe your right about Barkley doing it on purpose, but that seems like a scarry slope to tread. It looked pretty legit. Charles was upset. Hank was furious. Dr. J just thought it was the same old Charles. Barley even said he would contemplate quiting the game.
Hank Haney reported in Golf Dogest and in his book Cure the Yips Forever about the problem in the head. Perhaps Hank should reread his book. The yips are a real problem in the wiring of the brain, usually a wearing out of the brain for a specific muscle \ movement pattern but sometimes a problem getting a series of piecemeal movements going in a smooth timing and emotional disturbances can bring on or exacerbate the problem. The sequencing problem is a basal ganglia problem usually, so I am a little concerned that perhaps CB ought to visit a doctor. Nothing serious but still a possible problem starting to show up. The "thinking" and "trying" to do correctly and look good on tv causes emotions and brain patterns that bother smooth motion. I can state emphatically that in my view there is a problem in his head, and the teaching style is not suited to avoiding or correcting this problem. Hanks book is not really written by him and is not well informed about the yips or what to do about them. Many people have suggestions but neuroscience has not yet really tested good ideas about what is wrong in the brain. The Mayo Clinic study has been so far a collosal waste of time by unserious sports people, and even now with a movement neurologists helping as I suggested some years ago, they are not taking a very serioius approach to understanding the underlying neurophysiological processes that go wrong, but are simply trying out this or that therapy in hopes that something might help for some unknown reason. A California drug company has "given" them 119,000 dollars to see whether their drug helps. That is a waste also. Real neuroscience does not yet understand Parkinsons disease in terms of what causes it or what exactly to do to prevent of alleviate or cure it, but it is known to be a problem mostly of the basal ganglia, which controls sequencing pieces of an action. Teaching pieces is the problem, most likely, and CB needs to be taught what it means to swing as one might do in dancing.
The on course appearance or reappearance of the problem is provoked by the brain chemistry of trying and emotion overcharging the fragile and dysfunctional sequencing processes in the brain. That is the most likely explanation.
I'm a new member to the forum. It was great to see a thread devoted to Charles Barkley. One day I hope to meet the big guy and convince him to try my Over The Top Golf swing. OTG is a product that was born out of neccessity which, as we all know, is the mother of invention. I'm convinced that I can straighten Charles out in just one day because it's working for others who, while probably not as hopeless as CB, had problems with their golf swings. It succeeds because you aren't forced to abandon your own swing and start from scratch trying to do some of the impossible things pros expect of us. A few adjustments and all of a sudden you're looking up to see the ball going straight with some pace on it. It was pretty amazing to come up with it in the first place but even more amazing is the fact that other golfers are starting to discover it and that I'm getting positive feedback.
I know the Haney Project was about Barley's swing; however, the few shots of him putting truly bothered me...I would have loved to see Haney make a brief suggestion about Barkley's putting. Haney could do an entire project on Barkley's putting.. Now that Haney has cured Barkley's golf swing, wonder if The Golf Channel will do a new project with Barkley's putting? I'd love to help him...he seems to be a great guy! Back to Barkley's swing, I thought Haney would have had better tips to correct the problem than to set up 10,000 practice shots on the practice tee...geeze!
