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Training aid research

October 31 2009 at 11:04 AM
  (Login froth1987)
from IP address 88.106.48.71

Does anyone know where I can find some data about training aids preferably putting aids? The type of info i am after is:

Supposed benefits
Amount of training aids sold per year
Average cost of training aids
Most popular training aids

thanks

 
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AuthorReply
sammy
(no login)
65.95.161.134

Question ...

October 31 2009, 12:55 PM 

What is the purpose of your "training aid" research? Are you doing academic research or marketing research ... or just plain personal research?

I hope you realize that most golf training aids are only intended to scam the lazy golfer who wants to avoid intensive basic repetitive practice on their own .. and just jump from desires to performance with no sweat.

 
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(Login froth1987)
88.106.48.71

Re: Question ...

October 31 2009, 1:14 PM 

Im currently carrying out an undergraduate research project at University, im looking to assess the effectiveness of a certain training aid in improving putting success and stroke mechanics.

I personally feel that training aids are useful when a golfer is using them but ultimately they fail to have any long term benefit to performance and stroke mechanics, which is what i am trying to prove through carrying out my study.

The data im looking for would form part of my literature review providing an outline to my study, I've looked at a few golf market research websites but they are charging around $495 for data which I am only likely to use once, thus not being worth the money! Any help you could provide me would be much appreciated. Thanks

 
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sammy
(no login)
65.95.161.134

Putting training aids

October 31 2009, 1:39 PM 

There are many styles and models of putting training aids. Could you share with us the certain putting training aid you are evaluating so that we can better assist you?

When you speak of "effectiveness", I gather you are doing a biomechanical assessment of these training aid.

 
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(no login)
88.106.48.71

Re: Putting training aids

October 31 2009, 2:21 PM 

I intend to use two test groups, one will use the Centre Cup training aid for practice whilst the control group will not use the aid.

Both groups will have a pre-test analysis using the SAM Putt Lab to assess stroke mechanics and a score out of 10 putts to assess putting success. This will then be repeated post-practice and again a week later in a retention test.


 
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(no login)
87.55.4.192

Re: Putting training aids

October 31 2009, 5:53 PM 

I have both the Centre Cup and SAMS. The results seem very positive when under analysis of SAMS or training on the Centre Cup, but bare no resemblence when the students return back to the golf course. My client group are high handicaps. I can however manage to inspire some beginners to relate to a pendulum putting stroke using the Centre Cup.

 
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sammy
(no login)
65.95.175.150

Centre Cut putting device

November 1 2009, 12:43 AM 

froth1987 .... I have studied the CentreCut.com website and come to the following conclusions:

1. This is not a "training" device .. it is a "demonstration" device. The reason it is not a training device is because it is just a "restraint" mechanism that imposes a certain alignment. Training requires biomechanical development using repetition and loading. This device does not "load"... it's only a restraint both at the shoulders and the hands to produce imposed so-called "pendulum" stroking. To develop the back muscles as is claimed is spurious, because muscular development requires conditioning and non-specific training. Jumping directly to specific training for an unconditioned body is misleading.

2. The device claims to create a PILS (Pure In Line Stoke) by fixing the putter handle into a brace, thus taking the hands and arms out of the stroke. How does this imprint "training" into the hands and arms? It doesn't, and simply having the hands and arms follow the brace is quite useless in my opinion. Restrained repetitive movement is not "training", it's just attempting to feed back into the body, and without any mental and complete physical effort. (Interestingly, the club brace is removed for the chipping stroke.)

3. It also claims to create a "pendulum" stroke and a square putter face throughout the stroke. Since the putter is on an inclined spinal rotation axis in normal putting, it cannot be a pendulum - which acts vertically only. An inclined putting stroke will always produce a slight arcing stroke, unless it is restrained in some other axis ... or the wrists and elbows are slightly articulated to eliminate the arcing. Apparently the Centre Cut produces a PILS stroking axis, which means it is not a replication of a free-body putting stroke when you must perform on a green.

4. The promoters, claim the device imprints "muscle memory" when it does little if anything to load the appropriate muscles that are used without the device restraining the golfer. How are the core and shoulder muscles loaded to recruit them for consistency? In fact, if you do the repetitions on a restraint guidance device, the muscles will become "lazy" and just go along for the ride.

5. To achieve physical consistency, the brain must be neurologically altered for a brain-body process ... per Geoff Mangum. What is the neuro-scientific basis of this device? It looks like just another one of those golf "training" gizmos that claims to provide you with the "feel" of a putting stroke and then magically you have it. I am particularly offended by the demo videos on their website showing how many putts can be sunk with the device as proof of it's efficacy. That's sheer marketing hype ..!!!!

Of course, most recreational golfers want to jump straight to a performance level without fully developing themselves mentally and physically for golf ... i.e. "cheating" and unwilling to "pay the price" ...!!!! Trying to feed in a golf swing or putting stroke with a restraint device is a scam, in my view.

Sorry for my skepticism, but before you do any comparative studies, you should validate the device on a biomechanical basis .. to confirm what it claims to do can be effectively transfered to the golf course. If you intend to perform an experiment as you say, perhaps you should first determine which muscles are being enervated on and off the device, to establish if it really works as claimed.

Good luck in your university studies ..... and I suspect your doubts for this device will be confirmed.

 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
Forum Owner
79.152.225.92

Learning from Training Devices

November 1 2009, 2:20 AM 

Dear j1987f,

I agree with most of what sammy says, particularly about "restraint" not teaching a skilled movement that transfers to on-course play. Even a "loading" device is not much better, such as an elastic strap attached low on the putter shaft and then anchored in the ground, with which the golfer performs a series of 4-5 isometric stretches of the strap into a good-form follow-thru, and then removes the putter and makes a short putt with an after-effect muscle action that seems to occur involuntarily.

What is missing is the "know-how" about the body of the cause-and-effect geometry and muscle recruitment and postural set and changes in a sound cause-and-effect movement. This knowledge does not get inside the brain simply from a movement, but from exploration of the errors and successes that inform the brain and body about cause-and-effect matters, such as what is an effective / helpful setup, what is the balance, what is the muscle tone of which muscles, what is the postural set, what are the magnitudes of in-stroke forces that tend to disrupt good movement and what body changes protect and preserve good form or correct corrupted form in time, and more. This know-how is EXTRACTED by the golfer from the training situation, either with expert guidance to help shape and speed up the process or without it.

Frankly, restraint devices that come with the promise that simple repetition trains skill short-circuit learning engagement altogether. They may "demonstrate", but without independent engagement and exploration of misses and successes the golfer gets nothing substantial. It is POSSIBLE to learn with such a device, but it is certainly not an effective training for transfer well-founded on motor learning science and theory.

The restraint device does not even provide "feedback", although I'm sure the developers think it does. Feedback is "knowledge of result" (KR) caused by "knowledge of performance" (KP) of the body, with the golfer exploring the relationship of KR and KP. A device that always generates the SAME result is not "feedback", despite the belief of golf training aid makers. That is like putting a child on a stationary bicycle and having them peddle for two days and then handing them a real bike and telling them to ride down the highway -- no sense of HOW to stay balanced while peddling on one side and then the other, no skill at all.

And transfer also is harmed when a device "helps" the movement, since this is a "crutch" that is not available during on-course play. Train with a crutch and you get a crutch-skill; remove the crutch, and the crutch-skill itself suffers and in any event is not good enough for on-course play.

This is basic motor skills development science and theory, and I would suggest you get the basic VALID teaching and learning science well in hand before conducting your study. The explicit and implicit notions of how it works relied upon by almost all golf training aids are simply not valid, and unless you confront these underlying flaws, you probably will accept them unmindfully. That's a serious misstep in science. This blog post on motor science might help.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist

Offering Free Podcast Tips for Putting Every Friday on GolfSmarterTips.com.

The best putting instruction book in golf history is now available for purchase in hardback or as an immediate ebook download: Optimal Putting: Brain Science, Instincts, and the Four Skills of Putting (2008, 282-pages)

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j1987f
(Login froth1987)
88.106.48.71

Re: Learning from Training Devices

November 1 2009, 6:32 AM 

Thanks alot for all the information I really appreciate it. A lot of what has been talked about will be very useful in my lit review and disscussion sections.

Does anyone know were I can get some figures for general training aid sales?

Just another quick question, i recently purchased the PZ Research Database and was wondering if the file is sent via email?



 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
Forum Owner
79.152.225.92

PZ Bibliography

November 1 2009, 1:58 PM 

Dear j1987f,

You should already have received the Bibliography by email, and if not, simply let me know, and I will take care of it.

Thanks!

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist

Offering Free Podcast Tips for Putting Every Friday on GolfSmarterTips.com.

The best putting instruction book in golf history is now available for purchase in hardback or as an immediate ebook download: Optimal Putting: Brain Science, Instincts, and the Four Skills of Putting (2008, 282-pages)

Geoff Mangum's
PuttingZone
PuttingZone Clinics
Flatstick Forum
PuttingZone Channel on YouTube
PuttingZone Picasweb Image Gallery

Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.

Over 3.1 million visits -- 200,000 monthly from 50+ countries -- and growing strong.

LogoBox300x288.jpg

 
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j1987f
(no login)
83.148.128.221

Re: PZ Bibliography

November 1 2009, 2:40 PM 

Just checked my email and still havent recieved the file. Would you be able to re-send it to me please?

Thanks again

 
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(Premier Login aceputt)
Forum Owner
79.152.225.92

PZ Bibliography Resent

November 1 2009, 3:01 PM 

Done. If it doesn't come thru, it's too big, so email me directly and I'll send you a download link that skips the email size limit.

Cheers!

Geoff Mangum
Putting Coach and Theorist

Offering Free Podcast Tips for Putting Every Friday on GolfSmarterTips.com.

The best putting instruction book in golf history is now available for purchase in hardback or as an immediate ebook download: Optimal Putting: Brain Science, Instincts, and the Four Skills of Putting (2008, 282-pages)

Geoff Mangum's
PuttingZone
PuttingZone Clinics
Flatstick Forum
PuttingZone Channel on YouTube
PuttingZone Picasweb Image Gallery

Golf's most advanced and comprehensive putting instruction -- you're either in the PuttingZone, or not.

Over 3.1 million visits -- 200,000 monthly from 50+ countries -- and growing strong.

LogoBox300x288.jpg

 
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(Login froth1987)
83.148.128.221

Re: PZ Bibliography Resent

November 1 2009, 3:07 PM 

Just checked again and the file still hasnt come through so i've emailed you directly.

Thanks

 
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