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LH surge and no ovulation?

February 5 2009 at 4:19 PM
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SydneyGal  (no login)

Hello! I haven't been around much lately because I haven't been actively cycling and have been dealing with other issues.

I am trying to understand my cycle so I can get a handle on when AF is expected. This is so I can roughly plan out the timing of the start of another IVF cycle (cannot get pg without IVF, so haven't paid as much attention to my natural cycles like many of you do). I'm usually very regular but I had a very short cycle after my ordeal with the bowel obstruction, and it seems my cycle is still a bit messed up.

I had a good LH surge on CD11 (very early for me so I was suspicious) but then only 4 days later I had a day of red/brown bleeding! It was definitely more than spotting, but way, way short of a regular AF. The next day, on CD16 I decided to get some b/w through privatemdlabs to see if I had just ovulated or whether the bleeding was CD1.

The results: E2 155, and progesterone 1.0.

So with that progesterone level my first thought was obviously I didn't ovulate, I am still in the follicular phase. But I doubt it is the beginning of my cycle since the E2 was 155, and my usual is about 10, and the bleeding was much too light and short for a CD1.

My questions are:
1. Could I have a LH surge and NOT ovulate? That would explain the +OPK and subsequent low progesterone levels. If there was no egg released there would not be a corpus luteum to produce the progesterone, right?

2. Is it possible to have multiple LH surges in a cycle? Anyone had that happen? My surge happened so early this cycle for me, on CD11, when I typically surge around CD16-19. Just wondering if its possible get another surge around my usual time, especially since the first surge didn't do anything to my progesterone levels. I'll keep testing daily to see what happens.

In any case, I'm not terribly fussed about it all as we all have weird cycles now and then, I'm mainly just kind of curious.

SydneyGal

 
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JeanTX
(Login JeanTX)

Hi, SydneyGal!

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February 5 2009, 4:41 PM 

Good to see you around! I've been wondering how you're doing. Glad you're up and feeling better.

I think it's possible to have more than one LH surge per cycle, but in my experience one is usually more of a small surge - like a mini-spike - rather than a full-fledged surge. It's more common with women with PCOS-ish blood sugar issues, I think. Not sure if you've got those issues.

The P4 shows you didn't ovulate. Could it have been sort of an anov cycle? I also wonder about a cyst. The higher E2 and the bleeding could point to that. I think our bodies sometimes try to "ovulate" cysts to get them to go away, so it might be something like that. And from what I've heard, you can have bleeding with cysts.

Could you get an u/s to check for a cyst? That might be what's going on.

Arrrgh. It's so frustrating when cycles don't go as planned. I wish it were more straightforward and not so confusing.

Good to see you here!

Jean

 
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SydneyGal
(no login)

Hey Jean

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February 5 2009, 4:54 PM 

Yeah my money's on an anovulatory cycle. No PCOS or blood sugar issues here. Thyroid is good too for that matter, TSH clocked in at 0.9. Could be a cyst as you say, although I've never had one of those before. Getting an u/s is a bit of an ordeal where I am, so I'll skip it. I guess with anovulatory cycles it's hard to predict how long the cycle will be unless you are monitored frequently.

Hey I sent you an email several days ago to your yahoo address, not sure if you saw it!

 
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JeanTX
(Login JeanTX)

hi!

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February 5 2009, 4:56 PM 

I've been avoiding my email. I'm soooooo behind on everything after being sick with the flu for the better part of six weeks. Email has dropped off the radar. I've been trying to keep up with message boards but putting email on the back burner. I just checked my email and got it, so I'll reply to you now.

Edited - Just replied to your email.


Hang in there,



Jean

 
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Renata
(Login doglvr)

Yep

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February 5 2009, 6:06 PM 

You can get a surge and not ovulate. You can have more than one surge in a cycle. After I had a cycle when I didn't ovulate but got a surge, I asked for an HCG shot to guarantee it.

 
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SydneyGal
(no login)

Good to know

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February 6 2009, 1:31 AM 

I guess we always seem to assume that ovulation will occur after a surge when talking about surges on the boards, that I have trouble imagining that it isn't always the case. Trying naturally is not an option for me but if it were, I would definitely be looking at using a HCG trigger from now on. BTW congrats Renata on your transfer, sounds perfect happy.gif

 
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JeanTOR
(Login JeanTOR)

Could it be...

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February 5 2009, 10:13 PM 

there was a surge but there was no egg inside the follicle???

Therefore no egg to fertilize or implant...

Does this make any sense?

JeanTOR

 
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Dianne3
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Can you ovulate before the surge?

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February 5 2009, 11:58 PM 

Is it possible to ovulate today -as an example and the surge to appear the day after tommorow?

Thanks

 
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SydneyGal
(no login)

I have not heard this

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February 6 2009, 1:47 AM 

Usually ovulation occurs around 36 hours after the surge, give or take a few hours. Even with the urine levels being delayed from the blood levels of LH, I don't think it would show up that late on an OPK. The egg needs the surge to do its final maturation process before release.

If it is possible to have more than one surge, then I suppose you could have another surge after ovulating, but you would still have the LH surge before ovulation. Also sometimes the surge can last for several days, but again it would have started well before ovulation.

 
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Dianne3
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it looks like that happened to me

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February 6 2009, 10:49 AM 

of course i do not have a way of beeing sure, but i was using the OPK every day even during the cycle and it was snow white , while i had a lot of ovulation pains, EWCM and even the ovulation bleeding. I dismissed that because OPK was negative.
Later after 2 days the OPK colour started to change and then i thought it was the real ovulation. And ussually i have a 14 days luteal phase.
keeping that as a constant, the day that Cd1 arrived , correspond to the day in which i felt the ovulation pains.

i am confused now. Thank you
Dianne

 
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JeanTX
(Login JeanTX)

The OPK could be faulty

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February 6 2009, 12:58 PM 

I remember that Blythe - who is now a grad, pg again and a moderator on the PG board - had problems with a certain brand of OPKs. They were showing her an LH surge well after her actual surge. Once she started doing b/w she found out what was going on.

You might want to post to her on the PG board to hear her story. Maybe your OPKs are faulty.

Jean

 
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Dianne3
(no login)

Thank you

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February 6 2009, 2:08 PM 

yes thank you. I will consider multiple brands of OPK just to be sure ( to rule that out).

Thanks

Dianne

 
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SydneyGal
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Yes that could be it

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February 6 2009, 1:41 AM 

Perhaps the follicle was empty... in any case I probably have an anovulatory cycle. I find it interesting that one could surge and not ovulate, and as a result not have a luteal phase due to low progesterone. Do I now stay in the follicular phase the whole cycle? I'll keep doing the OPKs in case something weird like another surge happens. I guess its anything goes with the hormones in perimenopause!

 
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Andrea
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Hmmm

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February 6 2009, 12:44 PM 

That P4 is sort of in an in-between range. Even the E2. It could be that you surged, and released, but just a couple of days later than you thought, so you are not seeing the changes in the blood tests just yet.

Some women spot a little right after the surge, because release of the egg causes the E2 level to drop a bit. That drop causes withdrawal bleeding (spotting).

It might be worth checking another E2 and P4 level in several days to see if the P4 is > 5. I'm not yet convinced that you had an anovulatory cycle -
but even if you did, it's no biggie. Women have them all the time - I had a few myself.

Stress can sometimes blunt the LH surge. You've also been through a lot - physically, emotionally, with your bowel issue.

I hope things turn around and you find your cycle on track and on your way to a healthy BFP!!!
If you decide to repeat your labs, please post us an update, o.k.?
XOXO
Andrea

 
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Crayolab
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I had a double surge this cycle.

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February 7 2009, 9:44 AM 

Hey SG,

I had just this happen to me. On cd10 I got the egg on my CBEFM. That day my bloods showed fsh 50 and lh spiked as well, but the u/s showed only small follies and my e2 was less than 20. I did this to myself by taking estrace the first few days of my FP; long story but I was traveling and we had an appt with a new RE in Europe and I wanted to slow down my cycle. I sure did! When I stopped the estrace my e2 plummeted, driving fsh up. Doc said a huge rush of fsh can cause lh to surge even if the follies aren't ready to go.

Good news: my body did right itself. Sort of. The follies eventually grew and I ended up ovulating around cd26. Can't be sure because I never got a +opk. But had b/w on cd28 and my p4 confirmed O.

Not sure if that helps but maybe it does. Good to see you back!

Crayo

 
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