As I know F2N is basically same as F3N, so in America there are models with F3N 2.0 cc engines.
Is it right? Can be fitted F2N 1.7 up to 2.0 and is it easy ?

Hi,

Actually, the 2.0 engine used in the US-made Alliance GTA is an F3R. It's 1965 cc (82 x 93 mm), and has fuel injection and 95 bhp. The F3N is a European 1.7/1.8 L engine with fuel injection.

The question "is it easy" is always relative; What someone thinks is impossible might be a peace of cake to another! If you've got all the ancillaries (including fuel pump, relays, wiring etc etc.) with the F3R engine, it should bolt right in. The trickiest part (if you're in Europe) might be finding an Alliance GTA engine...

If you want more power/torque, an easier to source engine is the Laguna 2.0L F engine. It too is based on the F2N engine, is 1998 cc, and has a multi-point EFI with 115 bhp. And bolts right to the existing gearbox.


By the way, for most C and F type engines, it's easy to tell the type of the fuel system from the number in the middle:
1=single-barrel carburettor (C1E, C1G, C1J...)
2=double-barrel carburettor (C2J, F2N...)
3=fuel injection (F3N, F3R)
8=diesel

The last letter tells the displacement (more or less less accurately):
C1J & C2J = 1397 cc (Turbo & 68/72 bhp atmospheric)
F2N & F3N = 1721 cc
F3R & F4R & F7R = 1965/1998 cc (GTA & 16V IDE direct injection & 16V multi-point conventional EFI)

Juha-- the USA made R-9, came here with French factory motors,,(brought over from France) and in USA the Fuel Injection stuff was fitted to the motors.... But the 2.0 block is the same as 1.7- head is the same, in fact the head gasket is the same as the 1.7, all that is different(of the 2.0) is the Pistons- larger, and the valves(larger)-- and the Timing Belt is different than the 1.7 Too ----
but as I look at timing belts for the USA 1.7 cars-- those belts were 119 teeth-- and the 2.0 belts were 125 teeth.... I guess my question to you is-- are you sure the USA 2.0 of 1987 IS the F3R, and not a special factory French made F3N??? ... Remember- that in 1980-1987, Renault owned part, or most of JEEP here in USA-- but did not market anything else than the
R-9,R-11 cars HERE....
Also-- I do know why the USA made cars HAD FUEL INJECTION- and Euro did not-- because of Emmissions regulations, and carbureators are too imperfect for that standard here-- way back when.... Also, many parts of the FI system were shared with production JEEP vehicles of the same time..... so it made sense to share parts and technology.....
Also-- I do not know this for a fact-- but-- in California-- the Emmissions standards are Higher for cars and trucks-- it could have been that "FI" was added to the USA made cars for all of them to pass California standards first-- then all could pass the other states,,, because California is the toughest to pass of all the USA states....
Joe in USA

Hi Joe, and every1 else!

I relied entirely on my memory in my previous message, but the 2.0L engine really IS an F3R! You're right in that it's based on the F3N (actually goes all the way back to the F2N of 1983). However, the 2.0 block should be taller than 1.7/1.8.

I have no brochure of the GTA engine, my info on that is based on http://pages.infinit.net/argus/renault_gta/ -> Fiche technique.

Quickly browsing through some R19 and Laguna brochures, here are some more details of the different F engine family versions:

F2N-xxx = 1721 cc 8-valve with carburettor
F3N-xxx = 1721 cc 8-valve with EFI
F3P-xxx = 1794 cc 8-valve with EFI
F3R-??? = 1965 cc 8-valve with EFI (GTA, USA)
F3R-xxx = 1998 cc 8-valve with EFI
F7P-xxx = 1764 cc 16-valve with EFI
F7R-xxx = 1998 cc 16-valve with EFI

Bore x stroke (mm):
1721 cc = 81 x 83.5
1764 cc = 82 x 83.5
1794 cc = 82.7 x 83.5
1965 cc = 82 x 93
1998 cc = 82.7 x 93

I haven't included new F-based engines introduced within the last couple of years, as I couldn't find their brochures at the moment...

When identifying engines, the first three letters/numbers tell the "family", fuel system type and cubic displacement of a given engine. However, there are some inconsistencies in the naming: the F3R can be both 1965 AND 1998 cc.

The three-digit suffix tells more detailed information of the engine. Let's take the 1794 cc F3P engine for example. Even though the displacement stays the same, there are several different versions of that engine, depending on the model it is installed in, and the market it was sold to. Some things that cause the suffix to differ are e.g.:
- camshaft timing, different sized valves
- ignition timing
- fuel system details
- cat or no cat
- manual or auto
- w or w/o power steering
- w or w/o air con
- etc etc.
For example, in Finland, the last R19 RN/RT 1.8 'Biarritz' models had an F3P-682 engine (1794cc 8-valve, 110 bhp, multipoint-EFI, manual). At the same time, the Laguna RT 1.8 had an F3P-670 engine (1794cc 8-valve, 90 bhp, monopoint-EFI, manual).


BTW, Renault manufactures different parts in different locations: Although my ´79 Renault 12 L most definitely was French-assembled, the gearbox (casing) said "Made in Argentina")! So, some parts make a long journey before being bolted in place!

Yes Juha-- thanks for all of the information you sent to me about the 2.0 Motor-- the F3R in the 1987 USA Renault GTA !!!! I very much appreciate the time for your report, and it does look like the F3R is "IN" my GTA car!!!!
As for the US specs-- it is about 95-HP and runs very well.. very much fun to drive...
I hope to borrow a camera after Christmass from someone who got one for a gift-- to finally send you some photos of my cars!!!
Thanks again-- Joe in USA

Hi Juha-- I looked at the engine tag-- and it does clearly say F3R for the 2.0 ,, and I looked at my 1.7-- and that clearly says F3N-- so here are my questions...
1 What car- or application does the F3R fit in Europe???
2. Is this a common application????
3. Are parts easy or hard to get for F3R ????
Since you already know that a broken Engine Timing Belt can really mess up a 1.7 or 2.0, I would like to find a source for the F3R valves and valve guides since these seem to get trashed more often....
thanks again-- Joe in USA

Hi Joe,

Like I wrote in my previous message, the F3R engine is interesting in that there are two different cubic displacement versions of it: 1965 and 1998 cc versions.

To my knowledge, the 1965 cc F3R was only used in the US GTAs, I've never come across a 1965cc European Renault. I'd like to know which suffix your engine has: F3R-???

However, the 1998 cc F3R is quite common in the late-90s European Renault models. Typically it's 115 bhp with multipoint fuel injection and catalytic converter. This engine was/is used e.g. in the best-sellers Renault Mégane and Laguna (1st generation '94-'01). Renault has sold tens or hundreds of thousands of these models yearly, so they're very common here and parts are available through any authorised Renault dealership in Europe. In the last year or two, Renault has started replacing this engine with new 1.6 and 1.8 litre 16V engines, due to stricter EU emission regulations.

To know if the valves are the same in both 1998 and 1965 cc versions, we'd need to know the part numbers or have some detailed technical literature...