School Name: MUA
Location: St. Kitts & Nevis
Basic Science Tuition:
$4,450.00/semester
Clinical Science Tuition:
$5,400.00/semester
USA Clinical Rotations: Yes
Time required for MD: 72 weeks
Special: MUA Nevis has a pre-med program
Website: Click here Phone: 978-632-1599
Any guidance/advice on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
What I mean by "BEST" - (in ranked order)
1) proximity to the campus/ease of travel between the two
2) cost/affordability for about 1 week stay
3) amenities/property quality/service
If you have any experience with the local lodging, please feel free to either respond here or directly to my e-mail.
Thanks in advance for your time! I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards,
JD
Posted on Mar 18, 2003, 9:59 AM from IP address 24.80.245.249
Here is a site that gives all basic info on licensure in each state(i.e. residency reqs, and USMLE info). It won't include some of the quirks that some states have like Idaho. MUA grads can not apply directly for licensure, because our school is less than 20 years old. MUA grads can, however, recip. to Idaho. Just one of many stupid state laws that exist. AZ. has an approved list that is different from the WHO. MUA is not, so far, on that list. (SABA is present). Colorado has an unapproved and a questionable list. SABA is on the questionable list (MUA is not). This is nonsense, but re-affirms the need to investigate states in which you are interested in. I have investigated many states, so if anyone has questions, feel free to contact me.
Posted on Mar 17, 2003, 11:09 AM from IP address 204.131.47.133
Thanks Aron. Maybe you or Youseff could answer this next question. I have contacted the Arizona Medical Board and they require 12 months of ACGME accredited clinical work in addition to 24 months of ACGME accredited residency. I just wondered if meeting this requirement will turn out to be a hassle coming from MUA and working through MUA's affiliated hospitals.
Posted on Mar 15, 2003, 6:06 PM from IP address 24.247.24.41
First of all there is no problem getting greenbook rotations from MUA - you must be prepared to travel and/or wait! But I personally think that you might want to clarify with Arizona medical board because I think what they are saying is after you are awarded an MD degree then you need to do one year (12 months) of INTERNSHIP in an ACGME program and then do 2 years (24 months) of residency. Normally everyone just calls the whole process your residency but technically the first year is considered your 'internship' year. When you contact the medical board again - ask the question in a way that specifically notes you are inquiring about medical school rotations - and it might be wise to obtain a copy of the written law so that you are aware of all the requirements - for example - in some states tehy require specific pre med classes in order to be licensed, others require that core rotations be greenbook and electives not,some require that the med school you graduate from be at least 15 years old - etc. There are a lot of little picky laws and it is in your best interest to find out exactly what the law is in the state that you want to practice in before you invest money and time - and do not trust what someone else tells go straight to the medical licensing board for your answers. Good luck, an again, I think they were talking about residency - I asked the same question and had to e mail them several times to get an answer!
Posted on Mar 16, 2003, 2:46 PM from IP address 200.50.77.83
I am applying to MUA, however I would like to take a course over the summer at a local community college. Can someone please tell me if I should take A&P II or basic Biochemistry and Statistics. I have a BS and yes I have taken my General ChemI, II as well as Orgo I and II and Calculus. I don't know if I need Statisctics?
Posted on Mar 10, 2003, 10:51 AM from IP address 192.107.108.249
Taking Biochemistry would be a great idea. It would help you alot. Also taking A&P II would help too, but in my opinion taking Biochem is more important. Statistics is not a rewuired course, but it would come in handy in a part of "Epidemiology and Biostatistics" course.
I hope this helps
Good luck
Youssef, Fourth Year Medical Student
MUA--The Elite Class
"Never make a decision when you're too happy nor when you're too sad"
Posted on Mar 11, 2003, 6:07 AM from IP address 68.41.96.118
I am currently in Med 1. Take both classes if you can because any both classes will help you, Anatomyin semester 1(med1) and Biochem in med2. If I have to pick 1, I would go with Anatomy and Physiology II because Anatomy is HELL. You want to prepare for it as much as you can. My suggestion is once, you know for sure that you will attend MUA, buy the required books for anatomy and start reading. You should start with Upper Limb, then the Thorax and Abdomen, then Lower Limb....
cl
Posted on Mar 12, 2003, 11:40 AM from IP address 200.50.77.242
Unfortanetly I can't take both. The times conflict. So, I have to choose one. A&P II is a four week course and Biochem runs through the entire summer 11 weeks. Thank you for your advice regarding A&P II.
Posted on Mar 13, 2003, 10:20 AM from IP address 192.107.108.249
I'm also doing tons of research on foreign med schools. For me, it is between Saba and MUA. ROSS = Rely On Self Study (unless you're a 3.7 student with 1 30 on your MCATS, you'll be fine). Classes are huge 250 people, the island of Dominica is not safe and it's dirty, petty theft and beggars are common...Ross admits many students, however when the time comes to take the USMLE I and come to Miami, they fail some students, simply because they don't have enough clinical spots.
As for as St.George, yes the infastructure is to die for, it is known as the "Harvard of the Carribbean", they may be more popular in the US and have more contact for more competitive residencies, but what it really comes down when you're finished, you are still a foreign med school graduate....and it all comes down to your board scores. I personally don't want to be $240.000 in debt. Saba and MUA have an excellent track record, high USMLE passing rate, small classes, the islands are small (Saba), clean and safe and the administrative office in Gardner is very supportive and helpful. Hope this helps....Good Luck.
Posted on Feb 25, 2003, 9:11 AM from IP address 130.156.1.50
Hi Gail,
The only thing I know is that the administrators at SMU promise you the world but have a hard time delivering it. I think for me MUA is the best choice.
Posted on Mar 2, 2003, 1:21 PM from IP address 130.156.1.95
I just wanted to mention one thing....the carib school you come from does make a difference. I am from Saba and I am confident I made the right choice, BUT I must say had I been from SGU I would have gotten many more interviews than I did. I was on the interview trail with many SGU students who had lower board scores than I did, and they had significantly more interviews. I think in time this will change as Saba becomes more well known, but in the meantime SGU has the upper hand....
Posted on Mar 3, 2003, 11:29 AM from IP address 208.188.113.30
sorry, but the ortho, neurosurg, OBGYN, Neurology, ER, Surgery residents coming from Ross and SGU argues against your logic here.
also the ability to do a residency in NY and California makes it infinately more likely that a graduate from ROSS and SGU will get a much more competative residency ( and a much better paying career )
primary care is your goal?
Don't care about rotating through a small Louisiana hospital?
go for it, MUA/Saba is the best choice then
Medical education should not be decided on flea market principles. you get what you pay for!
Posted on Mar 7, 2003, 6:40 AM from IP address 68.61.3.197
i dont think 'Seven Jeans Girl' should have titled her message "ROSS=.......". however, i do understand the angle she is comming from. From reading her post, what i take from that is what all of us (FMG) have been arguing all along: If you didnt go to medical school in the U.S., then no matter where you went to med school, you're still considered a FMG. having said that, then you come to personal preference when it comes to a specialty. i agree, school does play a (possibly big) influence to specialty area in terms of residency, but it comes down to what area a student will want to engage the rest of their lives. statistically, the "big 3" school have had students in big residency program, but that does not exclude other schools, like Saba/Mua, from that same opportunity. the issue of california/NY came up. sure, that is SGU, ROSS, AUC's trump card. but that still doesn't support again the ability for other schools to compete. of course there are many factors that will influence a person's desicion to go overseas for medical school, but i, and many others that went to a foreign medical school will agree: it comes down to 3 steps: 1,2,and 3. afterall, we're not naive, clinicals is where we ultimately show our strengths....and it's not about getting a pass/honor mark in class anymore....it's about "buying doughnuts and coffee" for the attendings and the residency director during your rotations.... right?
Posted on Mar 7, 2003, 12:08 PM from IP address 65.58.45.144
Tell that to Youssef who went to flea market MUA, scored in the upper 5% ON THE USMLE AND IS GOING INTO A NEUROLOGY RESIDENDENCY AT Georgetown. I'd be willing to bet his scores kick the crap out of anyone at SGU and he is off to a prestigous career in his field. The bottom line is that you can achieve what you want anywhere (ask Scott Jones who also aced the USMLE from SABA) All the bickering about which school is best is garbage. Prepare YOURSELF, Rock the boards, and make good connections and you will be fine. Personally, if you like blowing money for no reason, all of this doesn't matter (have fun at SGU). I will keep it economical since Mommy and Daddy aren't paying for my education. I can take care of myself. I'm sorry that you can't.
Posted on Mar 8, 2003, 4:57 PM from IP address 65.178.200.13
I dont think Youssef is the MUA student you're thinking of who matched in neurology at Georgetown. He may be, but from what I know I dont think he's applying for the 2003 match, I think he's going for the 2004 match, considering he's just about to start 4th year rotations. All the other stuff about the good board scores etc is correct though.
And as for all this stuff about which carribean school you go to determining where you end up.... maybe, maybe not... I think that has more to do with the individual involved than what school they went to. Ultimately, you're still a foreign grad. They may call St. Georges the harvard of the carribean, but its still a carribean school, just like the rest of them. As long as your school produces graduates who end up in residency programs, does it matter which carribean school you went to?
Posted on Mar 10, 2003, 10:31 AM from IP address 200.50.77.19
It's the day after attending the AUC open house at the Marriott (Newark Airport). I have to say I was impressed with their most recent approval in NY state. However I have to admit that after speaking with a fellow graduate of a foreign medical school, it does not matter where you go to school, what matters is your board scores and WHO you know. Yes, Ross, AUC, and St. George may be approved for federal loans, have great buildings, views, beaches, etc. To to me that does not matter, I am paying for my own education and I certainly don't want to piss it away and be in debt for $200.00 when I am finished, I want to kick ass in med school so I have the board scores to get me where I need to be.
I like the fact that MUA and SABA are small, provide transportation to and from class, only accept 40 students/semester, incorporate a review course for the boards and most importantly have a HIGH USMLE I pass rate. I don't know about others, but I certainly don't want to be in a class of 170 people (Sept. class @ AUC).
Posted on Mar 10, 2003, 10:43 AM from IP address 192.107.108.249
it's great that you're looking into other schools before you decide where to go. it's also apparent to me that you already have your favorites, too. no problem with that. i went to one of Dr. Fredrick's schools and i have no regrets about it. like i mentioned in my previous post, it all comes down to the boards and to make yourself known inside the hospital world.
i noticed something in med school that others may not want to admit, and that is: the best students in class usually weren't the ones talking too much. you may not know what i mean now, but you will soon enough.
just do your time there, be strong, and just do well. school reputations speak for itself. the rest will just fall into place.....
Posted on Mar 10, 2003, 4:11 PM from IP address 207.32.153.139
From 1993-2001, trying to get the J-1 visa as a Canadian was really hard, sometimes even impossible. So it was quite discouraging. But things have changed. As of 2002, Health Canada has changed the policies a tad and it is now a little more open to get this visa.
Here are the steps. Basically, to get this visa you need:
1) an offer from a U.S. residency program saying that they have accepted you
2) your ECFMG certificate (of course)
3) to write and pass the MCCEE (write this in your fourth year of med school)
4) a letter from the Royal College of Canada stating that the residency you are doing in the U.S. is acceptable to Canadian standards
5) a "Statement of Need" letter from the Canadian Health Ministry
Huh? "Statement of Need" you ask? what is that? Well remember what the J-1 visa is. . .it is an EXCHANGE visa. Which means that after you finish your residency in the U.S. you must return to our home country (Canada) for a minimum of two years. So Canada has to tell the U.S. that they actually have a 'need' for you once you return. Pretty basic thing.
Anyhow, how does one get a "Statement of Need" letter? You need to write and pass a test: MCCEE, info about this test is at: www.mcc.ca , and then apply for the statement of need letter with Health Canada:
Judith Lewis (Judith_Lewis@hc-sc.gc.ca)
Program Administrator (Statement of Need) Health Canada
You will apply for the J-1 visa with the ECFMG (not the INS), read:
www.ecfmg.org/evsp/index.html
Now, if you DO NOT want to return to Canada for that ‘‘two year’’ requirement, then you CAN stay in the U.S. if you agree to go and work as a physician in a rural/underserviced area in the U.S. for three years. But unfortunately the J-1 waiver is not that easy to get, especially if your home country is a first-world country. Also if you do get a waiver you can’t choose where you go, the INS places you somewhere. . .so say hello to Granite Peak, Montana or Kearney, Nebraska.
In my personal opinion (not worth much these days it seems) this visa should be called the N-1 visa. ‘N’ for nightmare. Because as a Canadian, it means that you will most likely lose two years. Why? Because after you complete residency in the U.S. you must go back to Canada for two years. And when you return to Canada for that two years you cannot practice medicine.
Why? Because Canada does not accept the USMLE, Canada does not accept the ECFMG certificate. To work in Canada as a doctor you would have to do the entire Canadian certification process all over again. That's right, you would have to write MCCEE, MCCQE Part 1, MCCQE Part 2, and the board exams for the residency that you did in the United States.
Also you may have to do extra year(s) of residency training in Canada, for example if you did an Internal Medicine residency in U.S. you would have to do one more year of residency in Canada.
You might be thinking “yeah, but there is a doctor shortage in Canada, so I will be able to get a job”. Well this is not correct. Yes there is a doctor shortage in Canada, but the way Canada is solving it is by increasing the number of spots at Canadian medical schools and by opening up a new medical school in Northern Ontario which will produce 56 MD’s a year. Canada will certainly not offer jobs to Foreign Medical Graduates. David Hawkins of the Association of Canadian Medical Colleges emailed me this response recently:
"Applicants should be aware that enrolling in dubious, proprietary, for-profit medical schools opened specifically to cater to rejected applicants to medical schools in Canada or the USA is highly unlikely to be a path to practising medicine in Canada."
Now after you finish this two year ‘return to Canada’ requirement, at this time you are free to go back to the U.S. to work as a doctor. Now what visa will you need to get at this point, to work in the U.S. you may ask? The answer is surprising simple à H-1B. Makes you wonder why you didn’t get it in the first place, doesn’t it?
I think you all should read the excellent summary, written by a Canadian (Val Ilivitsky) who graduated from Carleton University in Ottawa and then went to the Caribbean for med school (St. George) and he is now in PA, USA doing residency in Anesthesiology. Here is his link: http://www.csa-notes.com/rescan.htm
PART TWO: H-1B VISA
(1) Pass USMLE Step 1, (2) Pass the TOEFL, (3) Pass the CSA , (4) Pass USMLE Step 2, Finish all your clinicals.
At this point if you are a U.S. citizen you are DONE. If you are a non-U.S. citizen planning to do residency in the U.S. and need H-1B visa, then you need to do the following, in this order:
1) Call Saba and ask if your evaluation form from your last rotation has arrived. If so request your MD diploma. (It is wise to have requested your MD diploma 2 months in advance so that the school has adequate time to order it for you). If you have planned this correctly you should receive your MD diploma within 2 weeks of completing your final rotation.
2) Get your MD diploma in the mail from Saba, then send this original diploma to ECFMG immediately (overnight delivery) with 2 passport sized pictures and two photocopies of the diploma to: Attn: Credentials Department. ECFMG. 3624 Market St, 4th Floor, Philadelphia, PA, 19104-2685.
After ECFMG gets it, they will send it back to Saba for verification, then Saba sends it back to ECFMG stating the ‘yes the Diploma is valid.’ There is no way around this step, so don't argue the matter. This step takes around 2 weeks.
3) Once ECFMG gets it back from Saba, they will then send you the ECFMG certificate. This takes around 2 weeks.
4) As soon as you get your ECFMG certificate send a copy of it with the USMLE Step 3 application to FSMB immediately (overnight delivery). You must have your ECFMG certificate to apply for the USMLE Step 3. There is no way to expedite the process, I called and asked. The application form for USMLE Step 3 is at: www.fsmb.org , the fee to write it is $590. The test is done over two days. It consists of 500 (five hundred) MCQ's and 9 (nine) CCS cases.
Note: only 12 states in the U.S. allow IMG's to register Step 3 before starting residency. They are: Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Florida, Louisiana, Maryland, Nebraska, New York, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, West Virginia. Contact FSMB for details.
5) 2-4 weeks later you will get your USMLE Step 3 scheduling permit. Call the Prometric testing center in the state you wish to write it in and schedule a date.
6) Take the USMLE Step 3
7) 4 weeks later you will get your Step 3 result, if you have passed (no one cares about your score, you just need to pass) then at this point you are eligible to apply for the H-1B visa. You must (of course) have an offer from U.S. residency program that is willing to sponsor you.
8) The H-1B visa application process takes 3 months. But if you pay an extra $1000 (one thousand) you can apply with 'premium processing' that will expedite your application to only 15 days. It is done by the hospital, immigration attorney and the INS.
9) Once you get the H-1B visa then you can proudly walk into your U.S. residency program and start your post graduate training.
Posted on Mar 7, 2003, 4:36 PM from IP address 68.21.75.223
The house is located in beautiful Jones Estate, away from the main road, and yet a few minutes walk from Oualie Beach (one of the top four beaches on the island). The area is secluded, quiet, and private. Location is 12 minutes from school by car, and buses also pass frequently headed in that direction.
There is a a full size pool maintained twice a week, nice patio, and the house is fully furnished. There is a generator, which can be quite important, because the power sometimes goes out often or at inconvenient times. Most rentals don't have one.
Before I continue, let me indicate that I will only rent to animal lovers. We have dogs and a cat, but we are extremely clean. They are 99% of the time on our side of the house and extremely friendly.
Your private bedroom and bathroom is on the opposite side of the house from mine with a sliding door to close off your side of the house for additional privacy. There is a phone jack for your own telephone line in the bedroom.
The bedroom is air conditioned, has a small desk, ceiling fan and is furnished. A/C is a must during the summer if you want to be comfortable studying...even at night. Rent is $450/month plus electricity and your own phone line. Cable, gas, and water are included in rent.
If interested, please contact me at: md2b01@caribsurf.com
Aron Kerner
Posted on Mar 9, 2003, 4:00 PM from IP address 200.50.77.126
To Yousseff and other students doing their clinicals
by Danny (no login)
i have a question for those students doing their clinicals in the states. did you have to wait to receive a spot in greenbook rotation hospitals during the clinical years? i heard that you have to wait for a couple of weeks to do your rotations in greenbook hospitals in the states. im applying to mua, but i dont want to waste any time, i want to be done in 40 mos, 72 weeks of clinicals exact. ive heard rumors that in mua, it is very hard to receive a clinical site to do your rotations and you have to wait for a long time to receive them. is that true? thanx to whoever replies.
Posted on Feb 24, 2003, 2:34 PM from IP address 152.163.189.129
I havent had any problems with clinicals rotations through MUA. I just finished my third year rotations last month. I went back to back with about 3-7days off in between. You need some time off between your rotations. I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Youssef--Fourth Year Medical Student
MUA, The Elite Class
"Never make a decision when you're too happy nor when you're too sad"
Posted on Feb 25, 2003, 7:08 AM from IP address 68.41.96.118
I finished my 4th year in Jan. 03. I set up my electives by making contact with Dr.s I met in the hospital while doing my cores. I did my electives in Atlanta, GA.
Posted on Mar 3, 2003, 8:49 AM from IP address 204.30.128.127
So far, Ithink this is a great place. The school is growing but there is an anatomy lab with cadavers that we dissect, and Dr. Downs in Histo is about the best, most dedicated teacher I've ever encountered. She also teaches us molecular biology. The island is very safe if you are a female. There's lots to do also; I am never bored. We go out "clubbing" on Sat nights unless it is an exam week. Exams are difficult so I know I am being prepared for USMLE. Local people are really friendly too. You can get healthy fresh fruit all the time or eat good Ambergris Caye fast food for about @2.50 US which is fried chicken or fish. Burgers are also very available. Housing is affordable in my opinion; you can live in a resort and pay more or have a local apt for about $300-$500.
Posted on Feb 26, 2003, 1:39 PM from IP address 206.27.245.72
Lets see if we can shed some light on this illusive subject. If I am correct the GREENBOOK is put out by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education, also known as ACGME. Their website is http://www.acgme.org/adspublic/
Now...if one where to look up a hospital on their website, or in the book, a person can find what ACCREDITED residency programs are available at that institution. Remember, the greenbook is set up to show residency programs, and has nothing to do with clinical rotations in and of itself.
So why do they talk about greenbook in regard to clinical rotations?
Apparently for foreign medical students to become licensed in a few states there are restrictions on whether they did their clinical rotations in a "greenbook" hospital, but keep in mind that there are two possibilities here.
Take for example a facility that is a greenbook hospital...but the only greenbook residency it has is in FAMILY PRACTICE. This hospital is therefore a greenbook hospital. That is the only ACGME approved residency at the facility, and yet there may be clinical students there doing CLINICAL rotations for their 3-4th years in family practice, surgery, OB-GYN, ER, etc.
So take these two scenarios...
1) There is a student at this hospital doing his/her family practice CLINICAL rotation. This is the most technically correct greenbook reference...the hospital has an ACGME greenbook RESIDENCY program, AND the student is doing the clinical rotation in that field.
2) The student is at this hospital doing an ER rotation.....or any other that is NOT family practice. In this case the student is still doing a rotation at a greenbook hospital...technically. However, it is NOT a greenbook hospital for that specialty.
It is my understanding that this is where all the confusion lies...as many schools promise greenbook facilities for clinical rotations, but which of the above two scenarios are they giving you?
Keep in mind that there are only a few states that one needs to worry about in regard to greenbook, from what I have been told. I am not going to pretend I know which ones, as I am not going to pretend that what I have just said is fact. This is only how I understand the situation.
It is also my understanding that as an MUA student, if I want to have greenbook clinical rotations as described under scenario #1, there can be delays, as these are not easy for the school to arrange. The fact is that we ARE a foreign medical school, and many facilities do not need to cater to us, as there are plenty of US students in many areas. If this is what I desired I was told I would probably have to wait in between each clinical rotation.
How long? I got no definitive answer...mostly because I believe they can't give me one. They were vague and said it could be weeks...truthfully I would not be surprised if it took even longer. Of course, a 240ish score on your USMLE might help.
Scenario #2 is what I believe Youssef is referring to when he describes his clinical rotations as having been in greenbook facilities (Please correct me if I am wrong Youssef). In this case one IS doing their rotations in a greenbook hospital, and I believe they can move you from one clinical to another within days.
IT WOULD JUST NOT MEET THE CRITERIA IF SOME STATE REQUIRES THAT CLINICAL ROTATIONS MUST BE DONE IN A FACILITY THAT IS ACGME GREENBOOK FOR THAT SPECIALTY. There is no reason why they can't swing you from one clinical almost straight into another.
My advice is to look carefully at the requirements for any state you might want to practice in. Call the state and ask them to clarify "greenbook" rotations for you, and make sure it is not someone who has only worked there a few months....lol.
If anyone else has further info they would care to add, please jump in...or to correct me if you think I am wrong about what I have said. The only field I am expert in is cleaning up the mess my dogs leave!
Aron
Posted on Feb 26, 2003, 8:33 AM from IP address 200.50.77.96
I graduated from college 2 years ago and have been working since then. I recently decided to apply to mua and am wondering if it would be in my best interest to do a semester of premed since i've been out of school for some time and didn't do that well when I was there. My main interest is to ensure I perform really well in the basic sciences once I begin and I feel that premed2 may help with that. however I would lose a few months. any advice? How good is the premed program in preparing students for the basic sciences? How hard is it to get accustomed to the basic sciences program and get really strong grades for students who haven't been in school in a while? any help is much appreciated, thanks.
Posted on Feb 25, 2003, 7:33 AM from IP address 64.241.225.19
MUA's AMSA Chapter
