Jesus was a created being, created within time, and not eternalOctober 29 2007 at 5:28 AM
|the sinner |
1st) There was no other who was "GOD" OR "SAVIOUR" before, beside, or after God. Deu 32:39 not "with;" Isa 43:10 not "before" or "after;" Isa 43:11, 45:6 not "beside;" none "ELSE" is God Isa 45:5, 45:22; God is NOT man, Hos 11:9; Jesus IS a man, John 8:40.
2nd) God offered a glimpse of a son of Adam who is to serve as Messiah, through prophecies in the old testament.
Jesus is presented in prophecy as the "son of David" and his geneology is traced all the way back to Adam in Luke 3:31-38. Adam is called "the son of God" in Luke 3:38, so if Jesus is not a created being because he is called the son of God, neither is Adam for the same reason.
For those who point out that Jesus was not "Joseph's son," I hasten to declare he most certainly was MARY'S son, and she was of descent from Adam through David.
I know this to be true because Joseph could only marry a woman who was of his own tribe, which was of Judah [Luke 3:33], in accord with the inheritance laws of Israel as found in the Book of Numbers, Chapter 36.
Adam was a created being, Eve was "made" from Adam's rib, therefore a created being
Messiah will be "the seed of the woman" [Gen 3:15] therefore a created being.
Messiah will be "the seed" of Abraham [Gen 12:3][Heb 2:16; Gal 3:16]
Messiah will be "the seed" of Isaac [Gen 26:4]
Messiah will be "the seed" of Jacob [Gen 28:14]
Messiah will be "the seed" of Judah [Gen 49:10; Heb 7:14]
Messiah will be "raised up from among thy brethren," the Jews [Deut 18:15,18], therefore a created being.
Messiah will be "the seed" of Jesse [Isa 11:1,10][Rom 15:12] therefore a created being.
Messiah will be "the seed" of David [Psa 132:11][Jer 23:5-6][John 7:42][Rom 1:3] therefore a created being.
Messiah was "Made of a woman" [Gal 4:4] therefore a created being.
To deny that Jesus is a created being makes a lie of all that is said of him in prophecy.
Was he "co-eternal" with the father, as some claim?
Only by twisting what is said and mixing it with what is not said.
One of the most used "proof-texts" says nothing about Jesus whatsoever, yet is used as though it directly names him. John 1:1-3 & 14 say nothing about Jesus but tells us something about a concept in the mind of God.
"In the beginning" is a reference to the beginning of the gospel age, in John's writings. Look at what John tells us that deals with this concept of "beginning."
[I John 1:1]
"That which was from the beginning, which we have HEARD, which we have SEEN WITH OUR EYES, which we have LOOKED UPON, and our hands have HANDLED, of the logos of life." John tells us that the word of life was seen, heard, handled, from the beginning, and this is only true of the beginning of the ministry of Jesus, known to us as the "gospel age."
[I John 1:7]
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the logos which ye have heard from the beginning." Again, this is only true if the apostles were present to "hear" it at its beginning, which was the beginning of the gospel age, Jesus' ministry, when Jesus first began to teach "love thy neighbor." This was Never a theme in the old testament, and was not preached in Eden's garden; therefore did not have Eden for its "beginning."
[I John 1:24]
Let that therefore abide in you which ye have 'heard from the beginning.' If that which ye have 'heard from the beginning' shall remain in you, ye shall alsocontinue in the son and in the father. This CANNOT reference anything that took place prior to the births of the apostles. It does however, reference the message of Jesus from the beginning of the gospel age.
John speaks of the logos of God being personified, not a logos becoming a man
The sixtieth anniversary issue of Life magazine, page 42, states concerning Colonel Charles Lindberg, "[he] was the American dream made flesh." This is exactly the same use of the language as that used by John, to show the personification of an idea, a concept, and is developed throughout the gospel accounts as the story of Jesus' message and its fulfillment are documented.
Consider also, verse 14 of John 1 does NOT immediately follow verse three, yet that is ALWAYS the proximity afforded it by those who claim Jesus is eternal. There is an eleven verse interum between verse the concept expressed in 3 and the concept expressed in verse 14, in which the entire mission of Jesus takes place. Only upon the logos being expressed by Jesus, accepted by the apostles, preached by those same apostles, and accepted among the Gentiles, only then did the logos become personified in flesh, and only then did the logos "dwell among men."
And it continues to dwell among men today as Christians live so that it is no longer they that live, but Christ living in them. THAT was the concept of God, and that is why the glory goes to God instead of to Jesus Christ. It was GOD's idea and God who made it happen; so tha tone day "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord" to the GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.
God be merciful to me, the sinner
- Sorry the sinners but trinitarians has fled away! (nt) - Jim on Oct 29, 2007, 9:20 PM
- Trinitarians are not the only one who believe Jesus is from eternity - the sinner on Oct 30, 2007, 7:46 AM
- Jesus is Eternal, Jesus Christ created all things - Jason on Nov 3, 2007, 6:17 PM
- So Jason thinks scripture begins and ends with John 1:1 - the sinner on Nov 4, 2007, 4:15 AM
- Watch out the sinner, if Jason can't cope up with you! - Jim on Nov 4, 2007, 4:33 AM
- I do not understand your response - Jason on Nov 10, 2007, 10:11 PM
- Unresponsive and insulting. - the sinner on Nov 11, 2007, 7:12 AM
- Insulting yes, unresponsive no - Jason on Jan 10, 2008, 9:57 PM
- Welll!!! let's look at the record. - the sinner on Jan 11, 2008, 6:56 AM
- "BUMP!" for Jason - the sinner on Jan 14, 2008, 2:49 PM
- Im sorry - feel free to treat me anyway you like - Jason on Jun 23, 2008, 8:31 PM
- Jesus created all things WHETHER THEY BE PRINCIPALITIES OR POWERS, OR THRONES OR DOMINIONS - the sinner on Nov 5, 2007, 4:45 AM
- There are many versions/denominations of so-called "Christianity" - QUITTNER on Nov 5, 2007, 12:30 PM
- Ah yes! The lament of one who has no arguments... - the-sinner on Nov 5, 2007, 5:35 PM
- Ah yes! A sinner, one of the many spiritually dead! - QUITTNER on Nov 6, 2007, 11:59 AM
- Ah! So I finally get to meet my judge. - the sinner on Nov 7, 2007, 5:03 AM
- Deliberate sinners: deliberate murderers, for example - QUITTNER on Jan 8, 2008, 11:17 AM
- ALL THINGS = ALL THINGS - Jason on Nov 10, 2007, 10:14 PM
- When "All THINGS" does not mean "ALL things - the sinner on Nov 11, 2007, 6:47 AM
- LMAO, LOL, seriously, go ask an English teacher - Jason on Nov 13, 2007, 7:04 PM
- Everything in context - Kristy on Nov 13, 2007, 7:15 PM
- Well said - Jason on Jan 10, 2008, 9:58 PM