To Everyone here that is having problems with a mesh surgery, you should still go to the FDA and file an adverse event complaint. It will only help you in th long run. A lot of these products are known to be faulty but surgeons will continue to use them until the government puts a stop to them. the link again is www.fda.gov/medwatch, it is imperative that the government know of these complications yoiu are having.
Gmsm I have not really had a problem with the mesh. My problem has been recurrences. Can I go to the site about that? I should be able to as much as I have had so many and then maybe be able to get disability for this afterall I know some lady that is getting disability for just having bi polar disorder. It really saddens me. At least you do not have a top notch surgeon that will not forgive you for a being a nuisiance on a discussion board and ignores your questions. I have went out of my way to be a good sport and am being still being treated badly. Goodbye Brad
Hey Brad,
Why can't you file. Obviously the mesh is not doing what it was intended for. Go ahead and file and let the FDA sort it out. If you are still suffering with complications from having a mesh implanted wether it be recurrance or ongoing pain, then of course you can file! the hernia conference is now over in scotsdale and you would be amazed at how many doctors and surgeons are having patients come back with complications. The national Meshoma foundation set up shop there for the weekend and found many surgeons that have spoke against the use of mesh, but also basically said that if the government wont do anything about the problem they will continue to use mesh. I am in contact with the president of the Meshoma foundation, he is an alright guy who is suffering just like us and only wants what we all want, surgeons to be honest with their patients and to help put a stop to this. you can google national meshoma foundation, there is some helpful info there. There were many many nationally recognized surgeons there that spoke against the use of mesh, where others don't know how to perform a hernia operation without using mesh. if the government put a stop to the use of mesh for primary and secondary hernias, that would put many surgeons out of work.
GDSM, were you at this meeting in Scottsdale? I was there. There were NOT "many nationally recognized surgeons there that spoke against the use of mesh"! The use of mesh in groin hernias was overwhelmingly recommended by the hernia "experts" at that meeting. The meshoma society foundation booth was a complete joke. I didn't see them engaging with any surgeons. I walked up to the booth and they had nothing at all to say to me. There were just empty pill bottles an posters that looked like they were made by a third grader. The question is not IF we need to use mesh, but what type of mesh and what technique is best for hernia repairs.
Thank-you GdSM I am going to go to the website. I am going to state my recurrence troubles. Wondering if mesh is a solution now to this problem. Wow even the founder had problems. Hernian MD what is your take on the mesh problems patients been having? I read a lot from patinets on this site with trouble from mesh. I personally have not had any complications except that the mesh is not staying on my repairs properly. Okay I am off to do my claim. Once again thank-you for the site info.
There is no doubt that some patients have problems related to mesh. With about 800,000 hernia repairs in this country every year, even a 1% incidence results in a significant number of patients with problems. I can assure you that if all of these repairs were done with tension techniques and sutures, the incidence of post hernia pain would increase. The newer meshes are no doubt better and will result in fewer mesh problems once we can collect data. Ethicon and other mesh companies are now gathering data from surgeons regarding results using these new mesh products. It is important for every hernia patient to do their homework and if they do, the majority will select a tension free repair with mesh.
Thank-you for the response Hernia MD. This last repair which was a week ago was I know for sure a tension free repair and the surgeon did the prolene hernia system. I am confident this should be my last recurrence on the right side. Now I think I might have a small one the left side. The surgeon told me to let the right heal some and that he will be more than happy to repair the left. Thanks for the information.
I believed that my physician had the best interest in my health and he knew what he was doing when he did my surgery. I didn't know I would have to research what type of mesh and what type of procedure he would need to do on me. I thaught it would just be a everyday routine surgery , just like he made it to be. However, it has turned out to be the most horrible thing I have ever been through. I have been in pain for 10 weeks since my surgery. Now I am having to look into everything to figure out how to repair something that has been screwed up! I guess I will NEVER trust a physician again and I will never let anyone touch me again unless it is a life or death situation. It is amazing that people can have hearts, lungs and liver transplanted but a simple hernia surgery cannot be performed without living a person disabled. Robin
No I was not at the conference, I was busy having an MR arthlogram and seeing doctors because of what the perfix plug and patch has done to me and the state it has left me in, but if you indulge me, in when the next conference in the US is I would gladly attend to personnaly show the outcomes of my surgery with mesh, it really is not a pleasant site and may even scare surgeons such as yourself away from the use of mesh. I also saw your other comment on how patients should do their homework before surgery, this much is true but why can't you as a medical professional help with eliminating some of the homework and offer all types of hernia repair. I have begun reading Dr. Bendavids book on hernia infections and even he stated that the Bassini and shouldice repairs are not flawed but may just be performed by uneducated surgeons that are not familiar with the techniques and have tried to perform them anyhow, which is why there is a high recurrance rate. he also stated that if these surgeons were versed in those repairs, the recurrance rate would surley be at 1% or less. How can there be a gold standard for hernia repair if all surgeons are doing them differently, if you guys would just pick a technique and all are trained in it these site may not exist. Again, if you could tell me when the next US conference is I surely would like to go.
No, I did not have a mesh replacement, I had a modified shouldice repair, but the damage had already been done by the plug and patch. That product totally destroyed my groin. I am now facing a possible fourth operation, I don't know what he wants to do except exploratory to see why I am still in pain. But he did tell me that when he took the mesh out of me, the damage was so extensive that repaired everthing he could find including the 3 inch tear in my pelvic floor, but the other rips and tears, there were so many of them, he repaired all he could find. The symptoms I have now without the mesh include a constant pressure, burning thruout my groin and upper thigh, I get sharp stabbing pains that shoot thru my groin and and thigh, and my testicle is always sore. Dr. Goodyear and Hernia MD if you read this what are your thoughts of my symptoms and can they be corrected in your mind, any help would be appreciated.
I am truly sorry for the problems you have had. If there are 800,000 hernia operations done every year in this country, there will be many people with bad outcomes. We know that mesh isn't perfect, but hernia repair success in terms of recurrence and pain is better with the use of mesh. Every elective surgical procedures have risks. I do feel that the risk benefit ratio for inguinal and ventral hernia repairs favors the use of mesh without any doubt on a POPULATION basis. The use of mesh on an INDIVIDUAL basis should be made by the patient after weighing all options. Surgeons can help reduce the rate of post op problems by using well established, safe techniques along with mesh which is less likely to cause the problems we have seen in the past. Almost 40 % of inguinal hernias in this country are still performed with the Bard Plug & Patch. You know better than anyone that this product is flawed and outright dangerous in many patients. There are so many better choices for groin hernia repair. This product will come off the market, I just don't know when.
On another note, I spent some time talking to Dr.Bendavid at the recent hernia meeting. He makes many good points about uneducated surgeons performing hernia surgery. He also told me that he always identifies the three main sensory nerves in the groin in every operation and then intentionally cuts all three nerves! No wonder they have a small incidence of post hernia pain syndromes. If you did that in the US, dictated it in your note, and the patient was bothered by numbness after surgery, the lawyers would make a great living. There is still a good deal of opinion regarding the details of what is a good hernia operation. This is one reason why there are so many different ways they get repaired.
The next AHS meeting in the US is 2010 in Orlando (dates to be anounced). next year's meeting is in Berlin and is a joint meeting with the European Hernia Society.
I wish you well in your quest to eliminate chronic groin pain.
First off, to respond to your thoughts about the meshoma foundation booth, I am sure it was not meant to impress but to only catch attention, and by you going over to look at it as many surgeons did, then I guess they served their purpose. The empty pill bottles were meant to be there, so surgeons like yourself may see what we have to take in order to make it thru a day.
I am truly sorry that you think this is a joke, to me and all others going this, this is no joke and anything they want from me I would be more than willing to give them and help them bring this matter further into the limelight.
anyway, thanks for the info, I will see you in Orlando. How can you say that a mesh hernia surgery is better than a pure tissue operation. With pure tissue there is no foreign body response as there is with many mesh operations, sure it may take a little longer but the costs of adding an implant is unnecessay and costly. I can't understand how the benifits outweight the risks of foriegn body rejection or a balled up meshoma that incorporates all surrounding nerves and good tissue that leads to additional surgeries, why not do the pure tissue repair like Dr. Desardin and be done with it or a shouldice repair and call it a day.
I am aware that all surgeries carry risks, but why add to the risks by adding and implant that for many years was never needed. I absolutley agree that there is a use for mesh in some instances but, as Dr. Bendavid and Dr. Fitzgibbons state, the repair of a primary and secondary hernia should be that without the use of mesh, or watchful waiting if asymptomatic, only when that patient has recurrance is when a mesh should be implanted and even then they don't guarantee success as some people are more proned to hernias than others.
I don't know if you are capable of letting me back on the other broadhost site, but I do like corresponding with you and you do make a compelling use for mesh, and I do believe that there is a market for it, but if you go to the shouldice site and I am only quoting from them, that most doctors in the US visit their clinic in Canada to have their repairs done mesh free. Is that a true statement? As you stated in your post that you are aware that these products are attached to problems, to me, that only makes that statement true and disheartening. I feel that if a surgeon is going to implant a mesh product, he should have to do the same procedure that he pushes. In general, as a patient we are not privy to the same information that you may recieve on these products, so doing our homework is somewhat limited. Sorry so long, but I wanted to comment on all of your points.
Gdsm hey you are not alone. Well I may not have mesh trouble but am having recurrent hernias so I can relate somewhat. After a week of recovery my swelling is still bad and well I notice extra skin in well lets say certain areas. The point is I am suffering too but from something different. I hear so much about mesh shrinking and my question is if it shrinks wouldn't that make more chances for recurrences. I do not think Hernia MD though is laughing off what you are going through. He is just telling you to hang in there. From what it sounds like better products are on the market. This is my opinion based on what I have read that the prolene hernia system and laposcopic technique if done by a trained surgeon are two of the best repair procedures for hernia. I found out that the surgeon whom did my last 2 repairs with laposcopic procedure was just trained in field. That could be part of my reason for recurrences with that. The surgeon that did my last repair told me that he has done 375 operations uptodate with prolene hernia system ulto pro mesh and has had only 2 recurrences. These have been from patients he said that had colds and coughed so hard that the hernias herniated back.
Have you talked with Dr. Ramshaw. I hear so much about him. I hear he helps patients with mesh troubles. There is Dr. Grischkan too. He uses Gortex mesh which I hear is more expensive. I have heard some success stories with these two surgeons. I will keep you in my prayers. Everything will work out for us all.
Thanks for the encouraging words, but I do nt have the mesh inside of me any more. what I am experiencing is problems with the nerves that were seriously damsged or destroyed by the Perfix plug and patch. I have been to two Neurologists and they both agree that what I have is called RSD (reflex sympothetic distrophy) or another name for it is Complex regional pain syndrome. There is no cure for this and I am told that it may get much worse and evenually effect my entire leg. I will not rest with that diagnoses and have started my research on this disorder, I just can't believe that I have gone from a very healthy atheletic man to less than half of what I used to be and I will only be 45 in May. All of this because of an operation that should have been as easy as a tonsilectomy. I do believe that it is now time for all of us to band together and begin to make plans to go to Orlando Florida when the next convention hits the United states, if we are still alive.
Hi. I read your response. I had my inquinal surgery 5 weeks ago and am more miserable now than I was before the surgery. I was just wondering if your pain started right away. I have severe numbness to myleft pubic area into my inner thigh. It has a burning sensation most all the time . i can not get comfortable in no position. I am still taking lortabs and using hot and cold. I was told by my physician to stay off my feet last week to see if some of the dicomfort would resolve. No better!!. I had the mesh put in through the conventional surgery. I had no idea this would result. i too am a super active person. i run and lift weights. This is insane. If I would have known this I would have lived with the other pain and risked an obstruction!
Robin
GSDM, I am a "guest" on the other site and have no input regarding "banning". I didn't mean to imply that people with problems with mesh was a joke, I was referring to the way the booth was set up by the meshoma foundation at the AHS meeting. It was not very professional appearing. We will continue our dialog. Our mutual goal is to safely perform hernia repairs with a ZERO incidence of post op pain problems and NO recurrence. We have made progress, but there is more research needed.
I do agree that more research is needed but along that line more research needs to be done for the people who have suffered because of the mesh. As for the meshoma booth, I was told the whole thing was put together in 2 weeks and was a last second thought of even going to the meetings. Just that they were there was a huge step. you have stated many times on how you feel the perfix Plug is a horrible product, then why can't you and your colleagues that agree with you in your feelings, file reports with the FDA and help have this thing recalled, you would be doing a great service in helping prevent further injuries from the product, couldn't you even approach ehticon and explain to them what this product does, maybe they can help also and in the meantime help themself also as to eliminate compitition. I think just letters from you and other surgeons would be a huge step in deep sixing this product. Have you ever used it? if so, what was the outcome of the patients?
Was there anything said at the conference about how bad the product is, or did the surgeons cower away from it as to not upset Davol/Bard who I know helped sponser the meetings and would pull sponsership if anything was nagatively said. I would really like to think that all surgeons had the patients best interest at heart and could care less what Davol/Bard would think. They need to know that their product is trash, so that they can do more research and make a safer product, that would be for every persons best interest.
There was essentially no talk of the "plug & patch" at the recent meeting. I think the program directors treated it like the third rail. No one wanted to touch the topic. Most of the surgeons at the conference had a keen interest in hernias. These surgeons for the most part think of the P & P as a poor excuse for a hernia repair. I do hope that future meetings explore in more depth the problems of the P & P.
Then why can't you and your colleagues do something about it? Is it etheically better to keep injuring people in the name of science than to do what is exactly better for the patient. The Manufacturer must know that their product is harmful, even if it only 10 in 1000 patients. How can science advance if all options are not on the table and the manufacturer is kept in the dark of what is happening to patients with the perfix plug and patch. Why shouldn't they want to make a better product? I can't believe that you as a doctor could ethically and morally allow people to be put in harms way. You steer people away from this product in this blog and others but why wont you tell the people that matter what happens with this product. the FDA/CDRH are waiting for surgeons like yourself and Dr. Goodyear to come out and speak of the perils ad pitfalls of this product. It seems that Adverse event submissions is not enough for the government to act upon the almost 3000 people that are suffering from not just the Perfix plug but other meshes also. Isn't there somewhere that surgeons such as yourself can report the damages being caused. For god sakes if the products need to be removed then that should be a warning sign for you and others that the product is faulty and should be reported.
GDSM, your question to Hernia MD is a good one, but pointless. These MD's are doing these repairs for money---it is one of the biggest money making part of their practice. If someone comes through the door complaining about anything in the groin, they say "hernia" and set them up for surgery. The profit margins using mesh are atronomical---these MD's could not care less if they destory people's lives.
They justify their actions with all types of arguments, and continue to ignore that almost ALL patients that have mesh have complications. These people are criminals, plain and simple. And don't rely on the FDA to help---Ethicon, J&J, etc put children of FDA employees through college, send them to exotic conferences, etc. IOW, the FDA is bought and paid for by the manufacturers and they could not care less about the lives they destory. Of course, if an FDA employee or Ethicon Employe or Hernia MD gets a hernia, they will get the traditional method----they know the mesh ruins your life, but for them, it is about the money, period! AND ANYONE that believes otherwise is a fool! The evidence is out there for anyone that chooses to read it.
John I have sympathy for the situation you are going through, but what article, study are you referencing when you say almost all people that get mesh have complications? Please fill us in on how you know Ethicon employee's and hernia specialist get what you refer to as the traditional repair? In all my research I have never found anything that supports your statements.
Hernia MD----so you discount the problems noted by countless patients and ridicule us just because the people running the Meshoma Society cannot afford to compete with the criminal medical establishment and their criminal friends at Ethicon, J&J, etc?
That is horrendous and horrible what you said. I sure hope you are not a real doctor, but I suspect you are. If you are anything like the MD I had who DESTROYED my life with Prolene mesh by Ethicon, then I am not surprised that you would make the statement you did.
The bottom line is I did not even have a hernia. The MD that did the surgery on me did it for money. The ethics and morals of surgeons in this country are beyond belief. You destroy people's lives and them ridicule them?
Hi Brad, This is Lin I am in Alabama, and have filed for SSI disability. Back in 09/08, was deniened it. have hired attorney's to appeal, I'm going to be 52 in July. what my attorney's told me was because of age and aready having 3 surgeries and now the recurrent, this will just weaken the area that much more. But I maybe facing other female surgery needed also .. anyway he said with that many sugeries for age I have a 50%%% chance of getting it. Good luck !!!!!!!!!!
