I read your discussion with Dr. Goodyear and others on the discussion board regarding your experience and AHS meetings. When I read what you have gone through(and are still going through), it instantly sounded as if you experienced what I feel I am going through now. A year and a half ago I had open bi-lateral hernia repair done using the plug and patch method. For a year and a half I have been experiencing tearing pain in my groin, inner thighs, and lower stomach. The only way I can describe the pain is that it feels like my muscles are ripping apart. Can you tell me if your pain was similar? After reading about all the tears that were caused in your body by the plug and patch, I wonder if the same is not also happening to me. Your insight would be very helpful.
Hey Lee
you described it perfectly, when the plug and patch was still inside of me, it felt like I was being torn apart from the inside. The biggest of tears that Dr. Meyers repaired was 3 inches in the pelvic floor. No matter what I did, I couldn't get any relief. I had so many nerve blocks, I stopped counting after 30 of them, but have had at least 50 t0 60 of them. As long as the plug and patch are still in you, there will be nothing that you can do to get relief. The tears that I had were caused by the mesh hardening, as the mesh was hardening it was acting just like a saw, in which everytime I moved around, it was cutting into me. My profession keeps me on my feet for 8 to 12 hours a day. The Bard plug and patch created such extensive damage, that I now have CRPS/RSD, as the nerves are completely destroyed.
If you still have the product inside of you, you should find a surgeon to remove it. Dr. Meyers in Philadelphia removed mine. I am glad that it is out, but I still face problems with pain everyday because of the CRPS. I have taken the first steps into having RF Ablation done, the first steps were to have nerve blocks at the spine, to the roots of the nerves. I did get some relief, but was not long lasting. The shots did take away some of the burning in my groin, but didn't help with the pain I have in my testicle. I am hoping that the ablation takes care of that.
So, to further state, as long as you still have the Plug and Patch inside of you, any kind of treatment that you try will be futile. I also belong to a private website were you must register to become a member. This website is in its infancy and was started by a woman who had a very bad reaction to a mesh sling, used for pelvic organ prolapse. The name of the site ishttp://www.truthinmedicine.us.com/ this woman is very knowledgable and is in contact with some very prominent people. She, along with myself and a few other have been working tirelessly to have this problem and complications brought to the forefront of the public eye.
date june 7 2009
a month ago i had an open incision inguinal hernia repaired with bard plug and patch.
now i feel there is a gland like thing which is very hard.
I feel slight pain in my left testicle.
After reading about this plug and patch, I am getting very nervous.
Should I get them remove now or should I wait?
date june 7 2009
a month ago i had an open incision inguinal hernia repaired with bard plug and patch.
now i feel there is a gland like thing which is very hard.
I feel slight pain in my left testicle.
After reading about this plug and patch, I am getting very nervous.
Should I get them remove now or should I wait?
I too am a "victim" of the plug and patch method (known as the Rutkow method) -- in my case a Prolene plug and patch were used. In 2005 I had initial hernia surgery using this method, and I know what you mean about a hard lump or "gland-like thing" at or near the site of surgery. I had this too, immediately following the surgery, and I was told by my surgeon, my GP, and another surgeon in practice with my surgeon that it was normal scar tissue and nothing to worry about. Nine months after the surgery I had my first bout of serious pain, with that lump being the source of the pain, and the docs tried to address it with pain meds, which didn't help at all. They still thought it was scar tissue.
Eventually, after a lot of reading and consulting with some on discussion boards, I pursued physical therapy with the blessing of my surgeon and GP. I did exercises and, more importantly, the therapist did what's called "soft tissue work" on the spot. She basically did massage designed to soften what she felt was hardened tissue. This worked, and I was pain free for two more years. Then in 2008 pain returned. It was somewhat different than the first time and quite intense. No amount of drugs, shots, or PT helped. After more research, I visited Dr. Goodyear and he immediately identified the lump as the plug, not scar tissue, as all the others had -- including the surgeon who installed it!!! You'd think he'd know where the damn thing was! Long story short, I evntually had surgery done by Dr. Goodyear to remove the plug and patch. He found that the plug had come loose and that two nerves were trapped. He did the removal, cleared a lot of scar tissue, cut all three nerves in that area, and installed an Ethicon Ulta Hernia System (UHS). BUT, now, 7.5 months after that surgery, I'm still in significant pain -- more even than before the surgery to remove the plug and patch.
Having been through all this and having read way too many posts on discussion boards, I think I can say that most surgeons will probably tell you to wait awhile before pursuing more surgery. But, if the pain persists, especially after various attempts to resolve it, I would think you might want to look into removal of the plug. Removal, though, is not a simple surgery, or guaranteed to succeed in eliminating pain (see above!). Dr. Goodyear states a 60% rate of full success with this surgery (and see his site for more detailed data on other percentages for "less pain" " same as before" and "more pain" etc.), and Dr. Parviz Amid (UCLA), an expert who has published many articles on this problem and who has removed well over 300 plugs, told me his rate of full success with plug and patch removal/repair is at best about 70%. There are other experts who do this kind of surgery. Read here and at other hernia discussion boards, and you'll see much discussion of and debate about good people to consider (e.g., Drs. Towfigh, Ramshaw, Billings, Meyers, Heniford, Grischkan, and others).
The bottom line, at this point, though, is that you should definitely consult an expert on these issues for more ongoing input and guidance. Read here and at other hernia discussion boards and you will see much discussion with names of good people to consult. Don't be afraid to travel if necessary, depending on where you live. Certainly consult with your original surgeon, but, frankly, my view is that anyone who's still using the plug and patch method is not paying attention to extensive research showing its higher rate of complications than surgery without the plug, and, thus, is not to be trusted for good advice and guidance. If he or she doesn't know about what's going on "our here" in the post-herniorrhaphy pain world, doesn't know the names or work of people like Amid and others, then they're going to hurt more than help. My folks were in a true bubble of confidence and denial. I understand they'll now do the surgery without mesh (I gave them Amid's articles!). In my research I found a number of major hernia surgeons (e.g., Dr. Hofstetter, Chief of Surgical Services at NYU) who had used the plug at one point but stopped using it due to the problems. Dr. Goodyear hates the plug, as does Parviz Amid and many other leaders in the hernia repair field.
I think you're actually fortunate to be having issues sooner than later, as the plug and patch will be less embedded if you do have to remove them on the sooner side. In my case, they had been in for three years, and that's not a good thing...
Also, do remember that you may, ultimately, be completely fine without additional surgery. There are many people with plug and patch hernia repairs who have not had problems.
Jeff is right, I knew immediatly that something was wrong after the surgery, but it took me 2 years and many different types of Pain meds to finally find what was wrong and a surgeon that new I was right. I had the Davol Bard Plug and patch (Horrible Product). I am in agreement with Jeff that the sooner you can get it out the better it will be. Also you are still early post-op and may be helped with the nerve blocks from an experienced pain specialist. They didn't work for me at all, which was an indication that it was the mesh.
I have had 2 other surgeries to correct what I have been dealing with, the first one was a single nuerectomy, the second was the removal and a double neurectomy with alcohol ablation. To this date I am still in quite a bit of pain and am being treated for RSD/CRPS. I have had all of the nerve block injections at both the spinal level and in the groin, without positive results. I am now in the apeal process to have the RF Ablation done at the spinal roots but, my insurance carrier keeps denying my appeal. They feel that the RF treatment is outmoded and not of value. They have said that they would pay for the spinal nerve stimulator, but I feel that the jury is still out on that type of implant. I have been trying to get relief from the more non invasive treatments, but, now that my insurance carrier has thrown up a road block I don't know what I am going to do.
I do not want another implant, especially one that has not been on the market long enough to prove that it is effective.
So Jack, to keep you from going thru what I and others have been going thru, it is now the best time for you to be your own health advocate. I would try the injections along with Physical Therapy, if you do not get results in a positive nature I would look into having the plug and patch removed sooner rather than later. Remember that the longer that the Plug and Patch is inside of you the more damage it can cause and the pain will only intensify.
Apologies for going a bit off topic here, but this is a question for GDSM, as I'm probably headed for my third surgery and am trying to figure out with whom and what approach, etc. Did you work with Dr. Meyers in Philly? I think I may have heard that from someone on this or another board. If so, I guess that didn't help?? Do you have any advice about specialists/surgeons who might be of help? I'm looking at removing an Ultra Hernia System and replacing it with mesh only, or...
Are you asking if I was an employee? If so the answer is no, I am just an average joe like yourself. I need people to understand that what Dr. Meyers did was nothing shoert of helping me stay alive. I am sure that if he did not get the p[lug and patch out of me I surely would have died. The pain was horrible and increasing everyday. I only worked with him that in a sense we both decide what needed to be done and did so for 7 months following the surgery.
I would and do refer many people to him because that is how much I believ in his technique. I had a hernia when I was a teen that was fixed without mesh and to this day it is hilding stron 31 years and counting for that. So I knew that he would be able to help me with his technique...(non Mesh, Modified Shouldice). And he did help me he repaired me in 2007 and I have not had a recurrence. Like I have explained, that because the nerves were so entrapped in the mesh, he did everything he could and for that I am thankful, for him to get the entire product out me was a great relief on my mind, but yet the pain conrinues. I do get help from the sharp stabbing pains by wearing a TENS Unit and the use of Drug Therapy, but the pain is always there regardless of the drugs and the unit.
I now have 2 choices that I am facing. I can have surgery again, only this time it would require the removal of the testicle and spermatic cord on the left side or can opt for the implatable Neurostimulator. I pnly wish that no one has to endure the many years of pain and suffering that I have been living thru as you know to well yourself, and I am sorry that you have had to deal with it.
I was trying my best and still am to a degree now to get the FDA to do something, but I am sad to say they are very reluctant as you can probably guess why.
Good luck and stay posted on how you do.
Jack,
Folks are right about the sooner you get the plug and patch taken out the easier it is (before too much scar tissue builds up around it and through it). However, in my humble opinion you just might want to keep the following in mind.
1. You are only 1 month post surgery and the pains you are experiencing don't seem that unusual.
2. We must keep in mind that the unfortunate cases (myself included) that you read about on here are the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of hernia patients fare very well after their surgery (including those who get the plug and patch). The odds of this greatly increase when the products are properly placed and affixed by an experienced hernia specialist. Another variable is one's reponse to these foreign bodies. Most patients have a tolerable foreign body reaction but some develop idiosyncratic problems which either impacts on their tissue, and/or other structures, or on the mesh itself (some examples are hardening, eroding, etc.) I have talked with hernia surgeons who actually like heavier mesh because they feel that the heavy build-up of scar tissue provides more reinforcement to the area of the original defect and thereby helps prevent a recurrence.
Anyway, those are just some plusses and minuses to consider before you decide anything. I guess my message is that you shouldn't push the panic button yet.
Good luck to you!
Thanks, you answered my question. What I meant by "work with" is, did you have surgery done by him? The answer is yes, and I appreciate your helpful answer. Sorry for the linguistic confusion...
I've heard great things about the Shouldice Center in Toronto. May I ask what the "modified Shouldice" method is? Is this also a good option for a first repair? And lastly, how would one get a hold of Dr. Meyers? I believe I've read he is in Philadelphia. Hernia MD says that non-mesh surgeries have a much higher rate of recurrence and also a higher incidence of pain after surgery.
Thanks so much for your sharing your story and knowledge.
