Independents who swept Barack Obama to a historic 2008 victory broke big for Republicans on Tuesday as the GOP wrested political control from Democrats in Virginia and New Jersey, a troubling sign for the president and his party heading into an important midterm election year.

Conservative Republican Bob McDonnell's victory in the Virginia governor's race over Democrat R. Creigh Deeds and moderate Republican Chris Christie's ouster of unpopular New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine was a double-barreled triumph for a party looking to rebuild after being booted from power in national elections in 2006 and 2008.

The outcomes were sure to feed discussion about the state of the electorate, the status of the diverse coalition that sent Obama to the White House and the limits of the president's influence on the party's base of support and on moderate current lawmakers he needs to advance his legislative priorities.

His signature issue of health care reform was dealt a blow hours before polls closed when Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid signaled that Congress may not complete health care legislation this year, missing Obama's deadline and pushing debate into a congressional election year.

GOP sweep: Big governor victories in Virginia, NJ

These two elections have shown that people are wising up to Obama's snake oil. If the Pubs can avoid the extremes and can avoid pushing third rail issues such as abortion and gay marriage I think they might appeal to a lot of people.

Two things come to mind, the need for more jobs and the need to shut down the cap and trade crowd. These are pocket book issues, things that affect all Americans, be they Dem or Pub.

I have my own ideas on how to control emissions but am not wanting to get started on that unless someone else should start a thread on the issues. I tinker around with eco friendly proposals that do not hurt us in our pocket books and have written a book on the ways it can be done.

My objective is primarily energy security and the use of bio fuels or other forms of energy that are domestically available. There are numerous ways to use alternate energies and to profit by doing so. My intent is not to hurt the existing energy sources and methods but I think a little competition can keep them on their toes. Most of what I advocate requires no new legislation to permit such activities.

Jeffrey,

But your anti-anti-abortion and anti-"fundie" mania blinds you to the facts.

Simple question: were the candidates who won last night pro-life or pro-choice? Were they for or against gay marriage?

And did you happen to notice the result of the same sex marriage proposal in Maine? In MAINE, for cripe's sake, home of Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, voters refused to approve same sex marriage.

That's 0 for 31 in these referendums, Jeffrey. That is, EVERY SINGLE TIME the question of gay "marriage" has been put before the American people, they have REJECTED IT.

Are 53% of the people of Maine FUNDIES, Jeffrey? You need to stop buying the leftist spin on this and recognize that gay "marriage" is not just something "extremists" or "fundies" reject--the majority of the American people reject it.

And when a Republian candidate thinks there is not then he will not win an election.

The last person I would vote for is a head pecke who can do nothing but pontificate. If I want a sermon I will go to church.

Hmmm .... that seems to have lost something in the translation.

one said, Jeffrey, that abortion and gay marriage were the only issues to be concerned about. But there's no need to avoid them, either, in a slavish devotion to the "conventional wisdom."

There aren't any Republican/conservative candidates who think that abortion and gay marriage are the "only thing" to elections. That's a figment of your fevered imagination.

The last person I would vote for is a head pecke who can do nothing but pontificate. If I want a sermon I will go to church.

Just my two cents, Jeffrey, but you might want to deal with whatever is eating you up so much that you feel the constant need to lash out against "fundies" and anyone who might possibly be "preaching at you." Yours seems like a classic case of a conscience being pricked.

so a candidate who hopes to win might profit by placing low emphasis on these issues. He or she should have thought about them and should have a decent reply to questions on his or her stance.

The reaction to these issues leaves me to wonder if I have came to the wrong forum. I walk and talk with people every day and gay marriage and abortion are seldom spoken about.

People seem more concerned with pocket book issues and the war than anything else, and rightly so. It is a matter of putting things into perspective.

The abortion rate has been dropping and gay partners have about the same financial benefits as a man woman partnership, so I have chosen to look at the more critical things like job formation and our ever burdgeoning national debt.

I think the healthcare thing is a scam in many ways but I do hope there can be some relief in premiums for those who need it.

What's a "head pecke"???

"These two elections have shown that people are wising up to Obama's snake oil."

 

I think the healthcare thing is a scam in many ways but I do hope there can be some relief in premiums for those who need it.

I will go much further than that, Jeffrey. The current Healthcare/Obamacare is one of those mistakes that is almost impossible to unmake once you have made it.

You can take several steps to relieve problems that don't cost the government a cent and that don't encumber all future generations with an overhanging healthcare mandate: Tort Reform and loser pays issues; Legislate to permit insurance companies compete across state lines in ways they now cannot; reduce the mandates in basic insurance policies so everybody's policy doesn't reflect the overhead of things like marriage counselling, etc.

Then come back in a year or two and see if things haven't gotten better. If they have, the best medical care in the world has been saved. If there is still more to do, then pick off the next steps that are the cheapest and least intrusive and step back again.

Your equivalency, Jeffrey, between a fraction of a whole system and the whole system itself is not going to produce any good results for the majority. . .  or, ultimately, for anybody.

I find this format rather difficult to use when answering a post that is impbedded in a thread but let me try. You had mentioned something about my anti-abortion and anti-fundie mania. I did not pick up my position on either from any lefties, and further more, they are far from being a mania for me. I take it that I am not supposed to express my position on anything that you might differ with for fear of being called a manic. Tough.

I may have missed something but what does either have to do with the election results? It appears that folks were disenchanted with the economy and voted their pocket books.

How does a candidate's position on abortion or gay marriage relate to the election results? The gay marriage issue does reflect a move to the right in those states like Maine, and I am happy for that as I don't think that gay marriage is needed and I also question the motives of those who want it.
However the gay marriage issue in Maine was not relative to a candidate to my knowledge. It was a question that was put directly to the people, so
that doesn't tell us much about their overall outlook on the many issues that we face. As you say, most Americans feel the same way on this issue and I don't think it is a partisan thing except for those that are actively pressing the issue. In other words it is a splinter issue relative to the big picture of things to be decided and is not a show stopper.

Granted, there are probably not candidates who concentrate only on the abortion issue and they shouldn't as there is more to representing a populace than that. It is a matter of priority and perspective. I haven't listened to Huckabee much but it seemed that he campaigned on a relatively narrow plank when it came to what was important to him. I think he was trying to reach the fundamentalist crowd but that was like preaching to the choir. Needless to say, he didn't get past the primaries.

I don't think the healthcare proposition is designed to help the majority in spite of the promises being floated around of reduced deficit. However, there is a need to provide affordable healthcare for a lot folks that have fallen between the cracks for some reason.

Does Medicare or Social Security help the majority? Not at any point in time because the working generation is basically paying the claims of the older generation. I started paying social security taxes when I was a teenager and now I am receiving social security benefits. Didn't really have a choice in the matter, and the same can be said for Medicare in that one is automatically enrolled at age 65 for Part A if he is covered by social secuity.

Both of these programs are liberal in nature and yet they both provide a valuable service to those receiving benefits. I work with the Census on a part time basis and believe me, there are people out there that are totally dependent on these two systems for all practical purposes.

Does my regard for those in need make me a liberal? I don't think so. It is for sure I am not a screaming neocon if that is what is bothering you and I dont' intend to be one at my age. Back when I was younger I was cheering for Newt and for Dick Armey but now that I am older my needs have changed and my outlook on social services has matured. I wish we didn't have to have these programs but I look at it this way. It is just a part of the cost of living in a decent society and having a decent standard of living.

When folks are young they can look to their parents for assistance, and we accept that. How about oldsters? Who do they look to for help? In some cases their children are not able to help them. That is why we have these systems that transcend generations, to overcome the generation gaps.

Could we have done the equivalent using private sector initiatives? Probably, but people tend to put off saving for their retirement or for their health needs when they are young. Sooner than they realize, it is time to retire and their health has deteriorated. Social security and Medicare forces people to prepare for their future and in that respect I think it has paid off.

What they should do is take the remaining money from 0bama's failed "stimulus" package and provide affordable healthcare for a lot folks that have fallen between the cracks.

oh, you have definitely come to the wrong forum if you expect a rational discussion on either of those two issues, or on prudent policy initiatives for republicans for that matter.

this lot are all single-issue "values" voters with abortion stirring up the brunt of their bile. keeping gays down comes a distant second to that. so unless, you want to bash the president as a baby-killing marxist all day long, you might have a rough go of it here.

peace

LOL "Lord Dagon" Yet here you still are after all these many years.

i gave up trying to have rational discussions here a long time ago. i've told you why i still pop in; to chronicle the descent of "movement" conservatism.

peace

I take it that I am not supposed to express my position on anything that you might differ with for fear of being called a manic. Tough. . . . <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

The reaction to these issues leaves me to wonder if I have came to the wrong forum. . . .

 

What's with the business of what you're not "supposed" to do and whether you have come to the wrong forum?

 

To me, it looks like your posts can stand on their own two feet -- in marked contrast to those of several posters who shall remain nameless.

 

I have no idea whether you came to the right or the wrong forum. But I can't imagine you expect to go without contradiction or even comment when you post here.

 

We all reserve the right start any thread we please or to post in response to anything we please. You should answer and give and take and forget about the defensiveness.

 

I would also forget about the "practical" advice of some kid who makes a quarter of million per year part-time and yet finds the time to come here and issue posts like: hahahahahahaha.

 

Give it your best shot. If you get criticized, answer to your heart's content. Or ignore it.

No doubt I didn't express myself very well, and that is not unusual for me.
I came to the forum hoping to see a balanced discussion of issues without all the ad hominens. Maybe I am not far right enough to be comfy here because I am seeing too much of "my way or the hiway" in the posts.

I think of myself as being moderately conservative and I don't think the right wingers have a chance of beating those who promise handouts by merely preaching at people. It is as if a moderate person doesn't have a home anymore, and maybe that was what I was looking for, a place where common sense prevails over hype and bigotry. I enjoy American Solutions, not for its ideology but for its attempts to design practical solutions to our problems without taxing our economy into oblivion. When they start preaching I just tune them out.

I have been called a bigot by a leftie over at Newsrake because I don't buy his socialistic views and don't approve of how Israel treats the Pals. Other than that I try to be open minded about things and resist a quick rush to judgement because I have seen in so many cases that only one side of an issue hits the news at first. It takes time to get the "rest of the story', as an old commentator used to say. Paul Harvey it was. I didn't care for his voice or mannersisms but he did make some good points.

It disturbs me to see so many folks either complaining about policy or resigning themselves to the fact that they can do nothing about it. I don't think that is the case for many economic issues and I have written a book that advocates a simple life that cuts out the waste of middle men and challenges the thinking of modern business methods. My wish is that rather than complain we sit around and gin up some practical solutions to issues, and maybe my affinity for doing so comes from the fact that I am somewhat of a creative person. I made my living by designing and implementing computer solutions to business problems and I studied architecture, which is very much a creative art.

It appears that many people participate in forums to have some wicked fun tearing down the character of other posters. I do a bit of that myself but some forums are regular snake pits in that respect, and such behavior blows the intergity and credibility of the forum and its posters. It reminds me of the rednecks at the Legion Post bar, getting drunk and loud, and showing their ignorance as well as their back sides.

There are forums that have sub forums where those of like interest can conger. As much as you may hear about Newsrake it does try to do that and until the last few months it was a nice place to be. Most people wanted to discuss the issues rather than snipe at each other. Now it is disgusting to see newbies coming to that forum with the express intent of playing grab ass and wanting to insult people.

I don't care much for the liberal outlook either but hitting on them just makes them defensive and rude and doesn't accomplish a thing. They are set in their ways and poking fun at them won't change that any more than criticizig right wingnuts will change them.

I try to be open minded on most issues and what do I get, accusations that I have no principles and are spineless. In the world of politics it is not usually a mere black and white but a blend of both, so I am just trying to be practical about my expectations when I stay loose on an issue.

I hope this gives you some insight on where I am coming from and why I say what I do. If I had the money and the skills I would start my own forum and it would be for sincere people who want to discuss issues in an objective manner. I know of a number of people who would appreciate such a place.

my suggestion would be to utilize the archives. that will give you a good idea about the views and the level of discourse over here. many attempts have been made at substantive discussion only to be hijacked by the "my way or the highway" mindset that you so astutely observed.

i'm plenty guilty of staying in character and "taking the piss" on some of the sillier posts but i think if you objectively look at the threads you'll see where the vast majority of the mudslinging and intractability comes from.

peace

I had better shut up before I am labeled a whiner. Come on over to newsrake someday. You might like it, well, some of it.

I don't think you're a whiner but I'm still curious to know what a "head pecke" is.

On a more serious note, a head pecke(r) is a fundamentalist Christian who gets into people's faces with their his convictions and pecks at the victim's head with a finger in order to drive the point home.

It is a derogatory term I will admit, but head pecking is obnoxious and deserving of the label.

I prefer to drop this subject as I am on thin ice already, but you asked and I delivered. Fair enough?

Sounds like our reactionary liberals today like 0bama, Pelosi, Reid, Gore, the late Swimmer, Barry's various mentors like Ayers and Wright, the "Rev" Jackson, Pfleger, Sharpton, Farrakhan, and all their sycophants in the media like Kos and Olbermann, et al. and the master George Soros are all head peckers as well - even more so in the case of those in government.

found in liberals as well as in conservatives. It is a matter of degree on how one trys to sell his religion, and the ones you mentioned are probably using it to further their own agenda rather than the Lord's wishes.

Religion can be very socialistic. We choose to call it egalitarian or whatever but nonetheless it involves coercion to share with others. A certain amount of sharing is appropriate as we all may need a hand someday but the idea can be taken too far. Tithing comes to mind and when I see a preacher asking for big contributions I suspect he is empire building or funding his favorite activity in order to leave a legacy for himself.

So where do the worshippers of the Great Cloud Being of Global Warming fall in here?? They are head-peckers extraordinaire.