reading several of the past posts, it seems like you had golf lessions from an expereince S&T pro. Are you still using the S&T method? Any chance on sharing your scores? How about your distance with clubs like your 5-7-9 iron and your driver?
We are playing Winter golf here (lift,clean and place),soggy ground, and the greens are lousy. Generally,from about the 6500 yard tees, I'm shooting in the 70's. If I get the putter going,I shoot in the low 70's. From the same tees,Denver usually shoots about 66 to 69. It is difficult to judge the distance with the driver right now,but I'm hitting it very solid for the most part. I'm probably about a 250ish hitter in these conditions. Irons I figure are about:
9 = 135
7 = 155
5 = 175
I can truthfully say that I'm getting the most out of my physical abilities with S&T.
Yesterday, Denver and I played a round in very windy conditions. He had about 240 to the green with a slight headwind. He had to go over some pretty tall trees and he was hitting a 3 iron;I asked if he could hit it that high and he said watch this. I'm in total amazement when he hits the 3 iron with a the trajectory of my 9 iron!!! It was a moon-ball that landed pin-high on the fringe. He said Tiger hits his 3 iron even higher than that...
Another golfing buddy,Tom, joined use for a few holes and Denver has been helping him too.Tom's biggest problem,as with many of us,are two-fold;first,he generally aims too far to the right at address;plus,his hands are so high (over his neck at the top of BS)that he is forced to come over-the-top on the DS. Denver says this is easily identified,because Tom is forced to "chicken-wing" on the follow-through.The OTT DS gives that out-to-in motion,which leaves the arms with no where to go,except to chicken-wing. A few,like Jim Furyk,can successfully re-route the club to get it back on plane;most of us can't. The idea behind S&T is to keep the swing on-plane so you don't have to re-route to get the club coming into the ball from the inside. Denver has been having him line up aimed well left,then pulling the butt-end of the club at the ball on the DS,which gives a more in-to-out motion. I've been taking some pictures of all this instruction and will post an example.
More later.
This message has been edited by bob2aa on Mar 4, 2008 4:31 PM
I thought this website is for hacks like me. Shooting in the 70's is quite impressive. My numbers are about the same as yours in terms in distance; a little less with my driver (230. However, I shoot in the low 90s on a good day.
I am looking forward to that training/teaching post you mentioned. Any info you can share will be wonderful. There just isn't enough material out there on S&T.
Did you get a chance to look at me other post about generating power with the shoulders?
Made the difference for me; I was a low-mid 80's shooter until I improved my short game.
If you are near Jackson,NJ,Denver will be teaching there beginning in April. If he doesn't help you,I'll tell him to give your money back
What is your typical ball flight? Start left,straight or right? Does it go slice or hook? My serious misses are duck-hooks;I tend to have my weight too far back at impact,come too far from the inside and
release too strongly.
Sorry,I've not read your post yet. I don't worry about the power being generated by my shoulders;I focus on keeping my weight on my front side,and going into the ball with the butt of the club leading until the last instant. To accomplish the latter, I feel as if I'm hitting the inside/rear of the ball with my trail hand still hinged.
My biggest issue lately is that my trail side is too active. I struggle with low left hooks. There are times when playing 18 where I recognize the problem but can't stop the trail side from dominating the swing. In order to overcome this issue, I have been focusing on keeping my trail hand, arm, and shoulder completely out of the swing.
I am interested about what you have said about the butt of the club pointing at the ball on the downswing. Is this a standard rule for the S&T to keep the angle or did the S&T pro have you do this due to your type of swing? I would think that would cause a very deep, sharp swing, with a very in-to-out type path. I would love to try it but I have to make sure I don't focus on anything with my trail hand. He is there just for the ride.
The short game...
My putting has gone into the crapper. I have been averaging 6-7 3 putts a round. That is way too many 3 putts. I decided to bear all the ugly glares and I went ahead and purchased a belly putter on Ebay. I didn't want to pay 150-200 dollars for the experiment so I went with a knock off type. The putter seems to be put together well. I live in the west and it is snowing again so I haven't had a chance to use it.
I hope you get a chance to respond about the butt of the club pointing at the ball question.
All swings look pretty much alike at 6/100 before impact. Look at Denver's picture above.Look at all the images below. Denver said his college golf coach told him the butt end of the club must point toward the ball on the downswing.
If you want to keep the trail side out of the swing,just focus pulling the butt end of the club toward the ball with your lead hand.
Sergio Garcia uses a belly putter,as do many other pros.
Denver gave me this putting tip;it might help you.
You might practice on a carpet if the weather is too bad.
Make a practice putting stroke looking at the hole (not the ball.) Putt the putter down behind the ball and putt looking only at the hole. Repeat the practice stroke and putt, only looking at the hole. Lastly,make a practice stroke looking at the hole,but do your normal putt (where you look at the ball.) Helps helps you with distance control and with releasing the putter head.
I will work on getting the butt of the club pointing more towards the ball on the ds. If told by the S&T pro to do this, then...that is good enough for me.
Putting with the belly putter is going to be an experiment with me. I know that a lot of folks feel as though it is cheating, but as they say "you still have to putt and get the ball in the hole". If they (USGA) deny the belly putter, IMHO, they must get rid of 460cc drivers, the souped up golf balls, and titanium heads. ALL these items realy don't conform to the spirit of the game as the golf forefathers intended.
Thanks again for all the input. Since you have access to a S&T pro, you are the "go to" guy.
That's a great tip from Denver in the post above - here's my experience with it:
First, looking at the hole is a drill I've done for years, especially when going to another course - I've found it's one of the fastest ways to get enough feedback to adjust to different speeds than what you usually play on.
I switched to a belly putter a few years ago - first an Odyssey two-ball, then a Frankly Frog, and then a Heavy Putter, all of which I liked for various speeds on greens. Out of frustration one day, I tried using the Heavy while looking at the hole for a complete round - and rolled putts in from everywhere. I didn't have the confidence in hitting the ball in the sweet spot with other putters, especially with a standard length putter - but using belly length to anchor the pendulum, plus the fact that hitting a Heavy Putter off center results in almost the exact same distance as on-center, seemed to work for me. I've been mostly using "look at the hole" for a couple of seasons, and it's held up well for me (4 handicap). About the only time I don't look at the hole is on putts inside 8 feet or so, when I can see the hole with peripheral vision.
Anyway, great drill that Denver recommended, give it a try - and if you've got a putter with a big sweet spot, you may just like it as much as I do!
Thanks for the feedback about the putting drill. I too use a belly putter;anything the USGA is considering outlawing can't be all bad
FYI, Denver told me recently that the majority of his lessons this year deal with putting,because he's developed a reputation for being a very good putter. The main reason for his recent putting excellence is that "look-at-the-hole" drill,he says. A year ago I'd rate him as a good putter,now he is an excellent putter. You can see that by the results he's had in the recent NJ Assistant's tournaments (two wins,one second place and a tie fifth.)
