-Did UTI/Sinus infection/Death impact cycle (even though we were fully invested in the idea of my Mom's passing somehow being a gift of a new spirit in our lives...dashed.
-I still feel pregnant, with fatigue, feeling hot, and night sweats
I had lots of mild cramping until stopping meds
I also had extreme night sweats starting about 5 days before beta (12 days after transfer)
I welcome all questions I can explore tomorrow.
Thanks again. I don't know if I can ever get my hopes up again, but I can't stop trying...
((Minniet)) (success after numerous DE failures and loss, pregnancy mentioned)
April 24 2012, 2:06 AM
Minniet, I am so very sorry you're going through this, especially now. You are in my thoughts every day.
I thnk you know most of my story. I consulted a reproductive immunologist after my 6th transfer (4th DE transfer from 3 donors) failed. She put me on heparin and prednisone (15 mg instead of the 5 the clinic routinely prescribed). She ran a BLOOD test for chlamydia instead of the vaginal smear sort and found that I DID have antibodies that fluctuated, leading her to suspect I had an antibiotic-resistant case of chlamydia living higher up so a test wouldn't pick it up. For that, she prescribed antibiotics starting 3 days before transfer and ending 3 days after.
I got pregnant for the first time ever but miscarried at week 9. The embryo never developed and we never had a heartbeat.
She said it was time to 'up' the treatment. She prescribed the same again and added Granocyte shots. I took one 2 hours before transfer and one 24 hours after. (Granocyte is usually given to people receiving bone marrow transplants. A friend who never got pregnant with DE is now pregnant and taking one shot EVERY DAY, which is hard because of the expense, but it seems to be working so far). The RI also added something very easy. Bovine colostrum tablets. I took 3 pills a day at 500 g a pill. I still take them because they are soooo good for you. (The anti-aging effects are nice too. Read up on colostrum pills.)
And that ended up being the change for me. For this last try, I just repeated exactly the doses. So far my record is 6 transfers without the RI's advice = no pregnancies. 3 tries with her advice = 3 pregnancies, although one was a loss. So I am a believer.
(((Minniet))) I'm so very sorry. My heart goes out to you.
I changed from a conventional clinic to a fairly well-known RE who tests & treats for immune issues, but I went on to fail a fresh & a FET with him with perfect embryos. At that point, I had the Beer book & was questioning him on things, plus I finally had my test results in hand. Some things didn't add up for me & with his blessing, I went to the Beer Center. My final FET with that RE did succeed, with the Beer Center handling all my immune issues.
We all have our own paths to follow & I really don't want to weigh in where it's not wanted, but I did walk a similar path. For me, I had to know I really had covered all my bases, immune-issue wise, before I could move on to adoption, which was my Plan C. With the discrepancies I discovered after the fact, I felt I hadn't had a fair chance yet. I had convinced dh to do a 3rd fresh DE cycle, but to my surprise, the final FET did work, with less than perfect embryos. (In my particular situation, it was inadequate treatment for NKs that was the problem. I even did IVIG with that RE, but the timing & dosage was way off the mark for me.)
I encourage you to grieve & rage all you need to. This is so unfair. Having been there, with all hopes pinned on a new path, the devastation is so great. Huge hugs.
and can't bear that this cycle didn't work out.
I guess it really is proof that there is NO logic or fairness or natural justice when it comes to fertility. Period.
The things I would be looking at (though I haven't had repeat DE failures I'm sure it really really helped me) would be TCM things. The night sweats especially; I know for sure that too much heat in the body (which is very common in pg and fertility treatments) can cause miscarriages, and that herbs and acupuncture can rectify and balance that.
Before my successful DE cycle, for three months I took high doses of resveratrol, pycogenol and fish oil to help combat my crazy high NKUs. I have severe endometriosis which I think really was what was making my ute so toxic and my immune system so haywire.
I also took antibiotics around transfer, and dex, and heparin till 12 weeks.
The RE just said okay when I presented all the possible immune markers. This was after I loaned the clinic my copy of "Is Your Body Baby Friendly...".
Please let us know how it goes.
My 2c worth; I think it's too soon to give up on your body carrying your baby.
genetic testing like CGH?
We did 5 DE transfers before hitting the jackpot; 2 chemicals and rest just plain neg. The successful FET cycle: I didn't go on any special protocols or add anything else but Lovenox ( & didn't really even need that per RE as I only have one mutation of MTHRF that requires extra folic acid only, he agreed me to take Lovenox just as "can't hurt might help' measure and because I wanted to add it).
I think we were just plain unlucky, and kept transferring genetically abnormal embryos. Wasn't it Wilson who got pg only after testing all the remaining frosties?
I'm not saying immune issues are not real, but in our case I don't think that was the reason for all those failed cycles. Just plain bad luck in picking the wrong embryos for transfer.
Our clinic doesn't offer CGH, so we took the risk and threw in more embryos on the last transfer that we were really comfortable with (3). But had we kept doing SETs we would have possibly had 2 more failed cycles before finding the good embryo....
Is CGH an option for you, or how comfortable are you transferring more then 2 at the time to increase your chances of finding the good embryo?
We also bought into a shared risk plan after our first failed fresh;idea was to exhaust all transfers and if still no luck we were going to get a refund, and use that money to adopt or use a surro...
Also experienced night sweats & cramping with no answers (OE failures ment-Long)
April 24 2012, 12:17 PM
Minniet I do not have any information that may be helpful except that in my last 3 failed (1 chem) OE cycles during the 2ww about day 7/8 I experienced significant night sweats (drenched when I awoke in the middle of the night) and significant cramping 2/3 days before beta. The cramping was likened to severe AF cramps (the kind where nothing you take takes the edge off). I have spoken to 2 RE's about this and my acupuncturist. Both RE's have completely dismissed autoimmune issues as the culprit (despite having a history of autoimmune disease!) Chalking the symptoms up to hormonal flucuations. I don't buy it.
The acupunturist thinks the night sweats could be due to hormonal shifts and/or too much heat in my body but she feels after several failed cycles with descent embryos that ultimately it is my body that is rejecting the embryos. Additionally her feeling is until someone gets to the bottom of "why" the night sweats and cramping occur the same outcome will happen with a DE. A big reason I am very scared & apprehensive about trying with DE.
As far as the stress of losing your Mom - certainly we know that stress impacts us but to what extent we cannot know for sure. Plently of women experience significant stress before they even know they are PG and for some during a PG and all turns out OK. It sounds as though you are at peace with your Mom's passing - albeit incredibly sad. Although we don't have a crystal ball it does not sound like this circumstance was the culprit. Please try to be gentle with yourself - you have had to deal with a lot of difficulty in a short time.
I truly hope you gain some clarity with your doctor visit and that will give you a better sense of how to proceed. My best to you - this journey is not for the faint of heart and reqires tenacious perseverance. We are all right here with you. XO
I just so feel for you with all of this. I want you to be able to move forward feeling like you have all the information you need.
I don't have a lot of information about immune protocols however I can add to the holistic advice.
I agree that the night sweats are a lot of heat. Have you had them before the cycle? If you haven't, then I am sure it is just the hormonal fluctuations that all of the meds created.
Have you seen a TCM practioner? I know it's one more thing however if you are going for broke, I feel it is important to try. My body does not do well on meds so I feel that the TCM approach is better for me. I am wondering if you need that balance before you begin a cycle.
I am thinking about you and praying for you. Please let us know how it goes.
and you know my history (lots of OE and DE losses & chemical pgs - we've now done six DE transfers with one BFN, 3 DE losses and 2 DE BFPs that stuck). My RE added valium to my cocktail -not just at transfer, but 1/4 tab every time I started to feel that deep cramping in the 2ww, for my recent fresh cycle (successful). I stopped taking it with the first + pee stick. I should mention I also took it for my last two DE losses, the FETs right before that fresh, so it wasn't the "magic bullet" in my case but it DID keep my uterus quiet and I think it was key in my getting to that point. (It also kept me more sane as an added benefit - DH would start asking me if I wasn't having any cramping when I got really insane and obnoxious LOL!)
One thing I'd definitely ask about again, though you already know what your RE thinks, is the crimped tube you've mentioned. Mine said that was a huge red flag for early pg loss (chemicals) as there can be toxic fluid created in the kinked areas of the tube, that backs up into the uterus and kills the embies. He said it definitely doesn't have to be completely closed (hydrosalpinx) and felt very strongly we needed to remove not only my blocked one, but the one that was clearly open, but kinked. I said no, went on to have two more early DE losses, then had a second surgery to remove the other - and success. I'm NOT saying that did it, who knows which opinion is right, like everything else in this ridiculous process no one agrees! I have only anecdotal evidence that in my case, it helped. Even my RE said he thought I had several things all contributing and together were making an ongoing pg less likely than for someone else with the same cycle, and the idea was to eliminate every possibility we could identify to bring my odds as close to normal as possible. This made great sense to me. So even though I'm less likely than someone else to succeed, if I keep going, it'll work eventually!
On the hot flashes... FWIW, I think some of us are just much more affected by hormonal fluctuations. I don't' know if it's tied to autoimmune stuff, or if we're just lucky, but I continue to have really severe symptoms around AF which I've had pretty much my whole life, including hot flashes/ becoming drenched in sweat for no apparent reason (with severe cramps). Nursing does the same thing for some reason and I want to shower like every three hours. Gross.
I really do not think you are at the point of surrogacy yet, but would totally support you if you want to go that route. I hear the exhaustion in your voice and my heart goes out to you, as I've been where you are now and it sucks beyond belief. I won't blow smoke and say I'm sure the next transfer will work, b/c we green girls have to try much harder than that sometimes, but I do believe you will have success carrying a pg if you keep investigating and cycling. If you want to proceed with a surrogate I totally get that too, and will support you 100% and hope that you hang out with us on pink when that works.
Huge, huge hugs, minniet. I'm so sorry for the last few months you've had, it's just all around crazy rotten. Best wishes for the future,
My gestational carrier was battling a sinus infection around transfer time. She was still on antibiotics, but she was feeling much better and had no fever 3 days before the transfer, so we decided to go ahead with it. I wasn't told ahead of time, but after the BFN my RE told me that it could have affected things. (Sure wish he had mentioned that it could affect things BEFORE we went ahead with it.) For what it's worth, I'm not going to do another transfer with my GC if there is anything remotely wrong in her body.
I don't want to go into the details, but I went over all my questions and every tiny detail of the cycle, the protocol, the diagnoses, the eggs, etc. with my RE. We spent almost 1.5 hours together, him, my husband and me.
He is not pushing, and is willing to try any therapy we wish -- HCG infusion (which he knew about and used to do, but found it did not impact things), another consult with input from a top immunology expert in Chicago -- Kulim? he knows who publishes and helps a lot of couples with recurrent loss, adding ivig, adding granocyte (that was the only thing he was not familiar with), etc etc, but being frank, and knowing we only have two perfect embies left -- we told him we do want to explore surrogacy. He knows Dr. March and was open to having him take a look, he is certain we have no hydrosalpinx...he can't say for sure that the loss of my Mom and the infections impacted things...probably not, but he can't say definitively. But with our history, there are not a lot of options.
He told us about a couple who had their own eggs and plenty of them, but miscarried over and over. They finally did a fresh cycle, did CGH and put only perfect embryos in both the woman and a surrogate from their church who had offered to help. Everyone got pregnant...but the woman had a miscarriage at 6 weeks. The surrogate is now 6 months pregnant.
So, we are feeling like surrogacy makes sense.
He was very encouraging about doing that.
Of course, a surrogate costs similar to another DE cycle...but it took us a year to find our donor and go through this process.
But another DE fresh cycle for more of this failure, I don't know if I have it in me. I truly have lost faith in myself and my body. I have seen many REs, run a support group and advised and seen many women go through many IF challenges. I have never seen someone like me with no clear explanation and so many failures.
The most important thing to me is to have a healthy baby sooner than later, not just carrying. But I am sad. I am sad that all these years it was probably just something inherent in my body that was doomed to kill everything. I am sad at losing my dream of carrying.
I am sad that everyone in my family always worried about me carrying a baby - even my mother said she was scared of it and worried it would harm or kill me -- and perhaps they were all right.
I am tired of fighting a losing battle over and over and over.
How on the fence are you about pursuing surrogacy vs trying with these two embies? Do you know if the other couple has moved forward with an FET and if so what the result was? If not BFP, would you want to start over with a new egg donor+surrogate should you choose that path after trying one last time with these remaining two? Or if it were BFP, would you want to save them for hopefully a better chance of successful pregnancy with a surrogate?
I am so sorry you have been through so much one thing after another. It needs to be your turn for happiness now.
Right now, trying to be logical, it seems to make no sense to have spent all the time and money we have spent this last year and then put those remaining embryos back in me. Even if I do every other possible diagnostic again and try some unorthodox new immune treatment and get a second and third opinion (which my RE will support and work with), we are so far "out there" in terms of science and likelihood of success with my body I just can't imagine taking the chance.
At least by taking my baby killing body out of the equation, these embryos might have a shot.
Now, these may still be bad embryos, and we might have to start all over...if we can...again. But by trying with a surro, at least we could have a fairly good answer regarding embryo quality.
Finding another donor, paying for an entirely new cycle...do not have endless financial resources at this point. We are in a very expensive lawsuit which we are not at the end of yet. Lots of unknowns. But forgetting the expense, we are the crazy people who demand some simple verification on our donors, and this took us about a year to find a donor we liked. So, that route is not looking very good either.
I still have not heard from my friend re: surro...not sure what is going on. The clinic has a surro, but they have not gotten back to me on costs (I do not know if she is independent or with an agency).
Anyway, my husband and I are not even able to emotionally discuss all this right now and I am feeling quite depressed and sad about my life right now in this area. I am having a hard time functioning. My husband's work is quite stressful, so I can not really lean on him emotionally, he is keeping us going financially and personally, and I can't bring him down. He is a good WASP...stiff upper lip and all that. So I am trying to emulate him and not completely sink.
I understand. All the things you mentioned, I've felt them too. You will gather your strength and start down a new path and while you may always grieve the losses, mothering a little baby or babies will definitely provide a blessed counterbalance.
I know you feel like you are the only one who has had so many unexplained failures but unfortunately, there are more out there - it's just a minority of people and it's very unfair. When I FINALLY got my Asherman's diagnosis and understood all the ramifications, it was heartbreaking and I cried all the way home on the airplane after flying to LA to see Dr. March, but at the same time, I felt relieved, relieved to finally know the reason WHY. The hardest thing is not knowing why. Some will never get an answer to that. I will never know why my eggs failed so early in my life, but at least I know why the donor eggs wouldn't take.