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Considering Testing embryos - m/c mentioned

May 1 2012 at 4:25 PM
MelissaO  (Login MelissaO)

 
I've been mostly posting on the green board, but I thought I'd put this idea out there for you wise women to help me make a decision, since I'm really 50/50 on how to proceed next. I have used a proven ED and SD - both have produced live full-term, perfect babies for their IPs. I have a GC with 4 perfect pregnancies of her own. On our first attempt, we transferred 2 frozen embryos. (We never did a fresh cycle b/c the ED had a limited timeframe to donate and the GC wasn't ready to go yet.) That xfer resulted in 1 embryo implanting and making it to 10 weeks before we miscarried. Testing showed that it was Turner Syndrome. At the very next cycle, we transferred 2 again and we had a BFN.

My RE says that he wouldn't do anything differently with the medication or protocol. He's confident that the GC is still an excellent candidate. One thing I have decided to do is to let her have 2 natural menstrual cycles before our next xfer - to give her body a chance to recover a bit. In retrospect, I regret doing the 2nd transfer immediately. BTW, the RE says the timing had nothing to do with the BFN and he disagrees with me that this extra time is needed, but I am firm on waiting.

The only thing he said I might consider is CGH testing 6 out of the 9 remaining embryos. They are all 5 or 6 day blasts. 6 are rated AAAs and 3 are rated ABBs. I'm really torn about the testing since I know 1) it's not 100% accurate, 2) it's expensive, 3) it can damage the embryos, 4) it can't guarantee a baby, 5) Turner Syndrome is random - having it once doesn't increase your risk of having it again.

All in all, the cost of testing is a little more than 1.5 times the cost of another fet. Part of my brain thinks that we've used up all the duds, so chances are the remaining embies just have to be good. But I don't want to waste more time and money. So, wise women, what else do I need to consider to help me make this decision?

 
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Maggie in VA
(Login maggie1961)

Hard call; hope women who did CGH will speak up. ETA

May 2 2012, 12:22 PM 

I'm going with the fact that your GC did get pg with the fresh cycle -- right? -- and carried to ten weeks, when the Turner Syndrome, which you say is random, caused her to miscarry. The BFN? Well, FETs just have lower success rates, so now you may be playing a numbers game, KWIM? My inclination is say you're doing the right thing, let your GC's body recover, then do another FET.

BUT, if she gets another BFN or m/c, then I would walk away from those embies. Yeah, I know you have a lot, financially and emotionally, sunk into them, but at that point I think you're in a good-money-after-bad position. I'm assuming money is an issue, and if you can go forward, I would do some numbers crunching on whether flying your GC to the east coast for a frozen egg cycle at RBA would be a more affordable option that starting from scratch on the west coast.

{{Hugs}} and take care,

Maggie (in VA)

ETA: Ack, just noticed that you never did a fresh cycle. Sorry. Glad someone with actual CGH experience is chiming in.


    
This message has been edited by maggie1961 on May 2, 2012 11:22 PM
This message has been edited by maggie1961 on May 2, 2012 3:26 PM


 
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anon
(no login)

did the same thing...

May 2 2012, 12:41 PM 

only with myself, no surrogate. had failures, with oe and de, had m/c with de. had a lot of de embyros left, all excellent quality, did CGH, some came back normal, some did not, regardless of their quality ranking. have twins now that are normal and perfect in EVERY way, pg was a breeze for me, I did better than most 20 year olds, deliver, c-section was a snap. I was ready to do it again a month later.(my ob does all twins c-s by the way, no other reason) IMO, the risk of damage, we were told less than 2%, or inaccurate results is FAR less than the risk of failure transferring embryos at random. young women can have as high as 65% abnormal eggs, studies have proven this, long ago already. save yourself some headache and drama and spend the money to test. (and another thing, don't waste precious time waiting a few cycles if you can afford not to, the testing will take some time as well.) we have some normal embyros still left and are going back for siblings. the hell of IF is behind us now with our twins, and we are pretty certain embyro abnormalities were the problem all along, after 10 years! we have every expectation that we WILL be having more children. with as many embryos as you have left, I would not just keep rolling the dice and wasting your time. we felt it was money well worth spent for the test.

especially since your RE is suggesting you try it, that's nearly unheard of that an RE would be so upfront about the reality of even DE embyros. most want you to spend all your money on as many attempts as you can afford, financially and emotionally. I say DO IT!

anon

 
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anon
(no login)

not trying to be mean...

May 2 2012, 5:31 PM 

...but you might not want to refer to your embryos as "duds" or refer to them like a simple consumable that has been "all used up"

for many people here, their embryos are their children whether they've gotten a chance to be born or not. they are deserving of a little human dignity.

peace and the very best of luck to you

 
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green.elephant
(no login)

ouch

May 2 2012, 7:09 PM 

I can't speak for the original poster, but that criticism wasn't necessary - if anyone wants to refer to their non-viable embryos as "duds" then they should be able to freely do so. We're all going through a very tough experience and need to support each other. Everyone copes differently - Personally, I use humor. The embryos that didn't result in pregnancies were duds - they didn't work - that's the definition of a dud - I didn't catch even a hint of insensitivity in the description.

 
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LadyMagoo
(no login)

we did CGH (success ment)

May 2 2012, 9:44 PM 

Our donor was proven and a mom, herself. Still, roughly half of the 14 or so embryos were deemed healthy, following CGH, regardless of grade and appearance. We transferred one and were successful the first time out.

It was very expensive, yes. We tossed and turned over this issue, and finally decided to go ahead with CGH. We felt pretty strongly about doing a single embryo transfer, and CGH gave us comfort. Good luck!!

 
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Anonymous
(no login)

Do you remember if the normal ones were also well-graded visually?

May 2 2012, 10:49 PM 

For example, if this was a CGH done on day 3 embryos, were the normals 6 to 8-cells with little fragmentation? Did the abnormal ones show signs of being abnormal before biopsy?

 
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LadyMagoo
(no login)

I don't remember, but can go through my files

May 2 2012, 11:07 PM 

I don't want to give you bad information. I can look it up for you, though.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)

Re: I don't remember, but can go through my files

May 2 2012, 11:28 PM 

Please don't worry about looking it up for me happy.gif I was just curious about how visual grading compares to CGH and also how it compares to pregnancy rates. Maybe I can find a technical paper on it now that CGH has been around for awhile now.

 
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(Login CTSmithie)

Big believer in CGH (failure and pg mentioned)

May 3 2012, 4:25 PM 

I insisted on it for my last cycle which was shared (I was the second recipient). Of 5 tested only 1 was normal = BFN. The other couple did not do testing. They were also a BFN for their fresh transfer. I do not know if they did an FET since then. By the way, this crappy ratio of normal embies is exactly the result I had from my last OE cycle: 5 embies tested, 1 normal = BFN. Back then (2008) I used traditional PGD which tests fewer chromosomes than CGH does.

I would have done CGH this cycle (I was the only recipient) but I couldn't afford the extra expense. Because I didn't test, I transfered 2 blasts and am now 6 weeks along with twins. If I had tested I would have transfered only 1.


Also, I've changed my protocol for this cycle to use a slower introduction of progesterone, based on the results of an endometrial function test I had done by Yale last year.

Best of luck to you.

 
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Bharani
(no login)

Barge (Christine)

May 3 2012, 6:36 PM 

If you don't mind can you share with me your protocol of Yale,progesteron and estrogen. When did you start progesteron and the dose, what type of the progesteron, and also the estrogen.

Thanks

 
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Anonymous
(no login)

Shop Around

May 5 2012, 2:14 AM 

Our RE only charges 2400 for CGH

 
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