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input needed (OE child ment'd)

August 20 2012 at 4:47 PM
anon for this  (no login)

I am struggling with my feelings and wanted to get input from this board. I have secondary infertility and have been trying for 7+ years for another child. At the beginning of my IF journey, I was very optimistic and just figured it would happen for me. I was in my 30's so I felt it was just a matter of time. As the years went by and I came to the realization that this would not happen, I started to feel hopelessness and depression.

I am going to a therapist, but it isn't helping much. My question to you wonderful ladies is this - why do I feel this heavy depression in my life? I have a child, so shouldn't I just count my blessings and feel fortunate and just feel happy? Why do I feel depressed? I feel split inside - my head recognizes that I am fortunate and I count my blessings, but my heart is heavy and full of pain.

Any input on how to get beyond this is appreciated.

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(Login BabyCotton)

the heart wants what the heart wants...

August 20 2012, 8:34 PM 

why should you HAVE TO count your blessings? yes you are blessed with a child. but you want another. i was blessed with one DE child. i wanted another. is it so much to dream of having TWO CHILDREN? does that make us selfish? NO!!! we had a woman on these boards who had quadruplets. she wanted another, and it made her sad when she wasn't successful. she wanted to experience a normal pregnancy, not one fraught with (more than usual) anxiety, without babies in the NICU. everyone has their reasons and you shouldn't feel guilty for feeling what you are feeling. it's all very natural. the heart wants what the heart wants, that's all there is to it. i understand and i wish you all the very best. i'm sorry you are hurting.

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(no login)

same here (child ment)

August 20 2012, 9:05 PM 

I have one (by DE) but badly want a sibling for that child. May not be able to have one, but am not sure yet at what point I will quit doing cycles.

I know a woman who wanted children all her life, but was married to a man who did not want kids. She tried to let go of her desire for children but couldn't. She finally left him when she was about age 42, and went looking for a man who wanted a family like she did. She went on to have 4 kids, including one set of twins (probably DE, but I have never asked).

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(Login phoebegrace)

this was totally me....

August 20 2012, 11:03 PM 

It is very very familiar to me; I was utterly heartbroken by the thought I couldn't provide a sibling for my DD.
It took me 7 years ttc to get my first DD, then another 7 to get my second ....via DE. And I"m so very glad I persisted. And grateful that this technology exists for women like us.
You're in the right place.

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(Login erikaja6)

OE child mentioned

August 21 2012, 1:06 AM 

I don't have advice on how to "get beyond" feelings of depression...if I did, I'd use the advice on myself! However, I just wanted you to know you are not alone and your feelings are totally normal. I am so, so, so grateful for my son. However, that doesn't stop me from wanting at least one more child. At this point, my family feels incomplete. I want to be a mother again/give my son a sibling. You are grieving a loss and I think it's only normal to have a heavy heart. It's good that you're seeing a therapist, but if it's not helping much, maybe it's time to consider a different therapist. I hope that DE works for you and that the pain in your heart is soon replaced with joy. Hang in there.

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How to get beyond...m (oe and de child ment)

August 21 2012, 3:01 AM 

I can relate to your feelings as I experienced that heavy heart and also a lot of guilt over wanting another child when my house was already full. As Cotton said, 'the heart wants what the heart wants.'...why is that so wrong?

Just because you have already been blessed with a child, why should it be wrong to want another child and feel so sad and depressed when that child hasn't made it to earth yet.

It's part of the process though...all these feelings and it's good to feel them, experience them, grieve the fact that it has taken years to get to your dream, years of being in the depth of your soul all this time...but trust that you will move beyond this place.

Although I didn't work with a therapist when we were ttc, my gut told me that I needed to stay in touch with my spirit and so I started practising hatha yoga. Learning to relax in my yin poses, some of them painful at first taught me to relax in the pain of my ttc journey...to keep breathing and to let all the good of the moment wash over me as well...feel the pain and trust that I would become more balanced and flexible.

I would also get up very early on many mornings, tuck my yoga mat under my arm and climb the mountain behind our house, I would watch the sun rise and marvel in all the beauty in the world. I would feel connected to it all and if I were a part of all that beauty and magic, I felt I could manifest ANYthing that I dreamed....and so I would sit and dream about the baby I felt was missing in my life...I would see that child in our life....feel the joy of holding that child and raising that baby...and then I would meditate.

I don't know how I got on the spiritual path...I think it was watching Oprah...and she had Gary Zucav on her show one day...one of the first books I read was Gary Zucav's 'Seat of the Soul' and then another spiritual teacher she had on was Elhert Tolle...oh and it continued, Dr. Deepak Chopra...Then I started to listen to Dr. Wayne Dyers CD's as I drove our children around...cd's like, 'Power of intention'....'how to manifest your dreams'....'meditations for manifesting'...etc...also I learned the power of positive affirmations and I used to say all the time, 'I am strong, healthy and fertile'...I still say this affirmation...even if our last 3 children have come as a result of using de's...I'm still fertile...I'm abundantly fertile in creating a happy life for my family...we are all creators.

I don't know if any of this will help you...each of us has to find our own path but if you stay in touch with your heart...feel the pain, but start trying to find a way to heal your heart as well...yoga, meditation, visualizing, positive affirmations, learning to love yourself, heal your heart, forgive along the path and then trust and let go.

I know for me there were times that I just wanted all the pain to go away...there were times that I got off the ttc path and just tried to live...but I kept hearing that whisper and my soulbaby would come to me in my dreams so I had to continue. If you shift your perspective to appreciate the journey you have been on...to look at it as a gift, to believe that it is teaching you to be the mother you need to be for your next child then it gets easier.

Until you are beyond this...just keep breathing...I really like something I just read recently that sometimes in life all we have to do is just show up...just show up...let go and trust...find a mantra that will keep you putting one foot infront of the other and in time you can look back as well and give back to those who are coming behind. IT WILL HAPPEN and when the time is ready...your soulbaby will come. This you must believe...until then, may you be well, happy and peaceful.

Blessings from Hope

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anon for this
(Login anon_for_this)

Hope - question for you

August 21 2012, 10:03 AM 

I know you are spiritual. I would like to get your view on this - I had a miscarriage years ago. Since about 2 years ago, I see this little girl around me. Is it just my imagination because I want another child so badly? What I can't figure out, is this just my imagination that made this up? I can't visualize a boy as easily but the girl comes easily. The baby I miscarried was a girl. But this only started 2 years ago, when I read something about visualization and meditation and started trying this. Sometimes I will imagine that the child is doing daily activities with me. Is this my imagination making all this up - meaning am I forcing this, or is it coming naturally? I can't figure this out and I can't talk to anyone about this because they would probably think I was crazy seeing things in my head. Could you give me your perspective on this?

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(no login)

Why do we only believe the things that we can see....m

August 21 2012, 4:40 PM 

I believe that the things that we feel with our hearts are more real than ANYthing that appears real on this earthly plane. I can't tell you if what you are experiencing is as a result of your imagination or if it is a connection to your soul baby...only you will know. How will you know?...you will feel the truth in it...it will resonate with your soul...your gut will tell you that it feels right and that it is very real.

I had several very deep experiences while ttc our last several children that I also had doubts about but as I moved from a place of my EGO,(earth guide only) and found my spirit, I knew that these dreams I was having of my soulbabies were my soul's voice.

The summer that I was 40, my family and I went to the ocean for a vacation...it was our third summer going to this resort so it felt like we were starting a tradition. As I watched our 4 young children play in the sand...they were building sand castles for the crabs that they were catching the vision of her came to me.

I still wonder if I had fallen asleep for awhile and dreamed it or if I was awake because I do recall the warmth of the sun on my face as I sat in a nearby chair to the children...I felt the ocean breeze and could hear the tide moving in a out in the distance...such a lovely reminder to breathe and relax...and everything kind of faded out as I had this vision...the children who had been shieking as they were catching their crabs became more faded as did the sound of the seagulls....all that came into intense focus was this little girl sitting amongst my children. She was chubby and round...probably on the verge of walking, she was wearing a pink one piece swim suit with a ruffle on the bum and she had a little white eyelet sun hat on her head. She was holding a bucket and a pail in her hands but she was still....just watching the children play.

Just before the vision left me, she turned her little face and gave me the biggest smile...right into my eyes like she was saying...'thanks for bringing me to the beach mommy' Then the vision was gone and everything came back into focus...the sound of our children and the beach noises.

We returned from holidays with buckets of shells, a camera loaded with pictures but I brought that vision of her with me...held it quietly near my heart. I didn't share it with anyone for the longest time because I didn't really know what it was all about...was it just a dream or was it my imagination...when we had had our fourth child I had been sad but knew that we had to be done since I was 39 when he was born...also there was a part of me that had wanted another girl...we had a DD first and then had 3 beautiful DS's in a row and I knew our DD had really wanted a sister...but oh I had to be done right...my DH WAS DONE.

But over the course of the following months as our family moved into fall she was near me....I never saw her again in that way but I felt her close to me...quietly and peacefully waiting. One night I shared my dream with my Dh AND asked him what he thought about ttc another baby. At first he thought I was crazy...after all we had FOUR children..what was I thinking and I was 40 as well. No we ended the discussion right there...he was right...but the feeling that she was near never left me...so in the spring I asked him again and we had nights and nights of talks...finally he agreed that we could try to conceive...it was a long journey believe me.

So we started to try and I was so happy but month after month went by and I didn't get pg...which was unusual for me. Our last baby had been born when I was 39..conceieved while we were just talking about having another...kind of a surprise as I must have ovualted early one month. Anyway, here I was with this strong feeling that there was one more and I had secondary infertility...or do you call it that when you are 40 something...old eggs probably is a better description...still just because I had four children didn't make the pain any less...in fact I often thought it was worse in many ways because I knew what I was missing and also I wanted the children close in age and it wasn't happening. I wondered if because it wasn't happening...THAT MAYBE IT WASN'T MEANT TO BE...after all you always heare people say...if it is meant to be that things will just come, they will flow easily and this was not working....so I had so many doubts despte being so sad as well.

TWo years after having that dream we again when back to the ocean. While there I read the book, 'Gift from the sea' by Anne MORROW LINDBERGH. I loved that book...I cried and cried over many parts, the words, 'One should lie empty, open, choiceless as a beach...waiting for a gift from the sea.'...well I thought about how I had been trying to conceive doing everything that I could to conceive...but it wasn't happening...maybe I needed to let go...surrender and lie empty waiting for a perfect shell to wash upon my beach...I also loved the part that said, 'I want first of all...to be at peace with myself. I want a singleness of eye, a purity of intention, a central core to mylife that will enable me to carry out obligations and activities as well as I can. I want in fact...to borrow from the language of the saints...to live 'in grace' as much of the time as possible.'

I thought about that last part and realized that I was trying to push things too much...I just needed to find peace...let go. On our return trip home, the children and I fell asleep lulled by the moving vehicle...it felt so wonderful...I knew my DH who was driving was enjoying the quiet in the van...one by one the children drifted off, I looked over at my DH and he smiled, I was feeling peaceful for the first time in several years, it had been a good holiday...very restorative and I had a new perspective about just surrndering to life...and as I settled into the front seat I drifted off as well.

I dreamed that my father who had been killed in a truck accident when I was 5 years old came to me...he was walking out of a fog and in his arms was a baby, wrapped in a soft pink blanket. He was about to hand that baby to me and just as I was about to reach for her, I woke up...we were on the highway near my hometown of 'HOPE' (hence my board name)...my father had been killed on this highway. I was so shocked and wondered what the dream meant....it wasn't later that I realized that it was very significant.

The next month was Sept 2001...right after the terrible 9/11 attack I found out we were pg...finally at last and we were so overjoyed. I felt like my soulbaby had finally come...and so strange how she had come in the month of so much pain in the world...so much fear too...but I had found peace at last. I thought for sure this was our little girl at last but sadly I never found out for sure b/c when I went in for an u/s at 10 weeks, they told me the heart beat had stopped a few days before by the dating.

While I waited for my body to m/c naturally, I had a dream that I was walking with a young little girl next to a very high creek...the water was really moving fast...at first we were just enjoying being together...the flowers, the buzzing of the bees, the sun...and then the weather started to change and I noticed that my Doctor, my husband, my children were on the other side of the creek and they were yelling for me to cross the creek before the storm came up...it was getting hard to hear them as it was getting so windy, the storm clouds coming in...I knelt down beside my little girl...I knew she was mine and told her that I had to leave...she was totally calm and peaceful but I was frantic...I wanted to rejoin my family but I didn't want to leave her..and then I woke up in such a turmoil.

At 12 weeks I was finally admitted to the hospital where they induced the m/c with drugs...I had a vaginal m/c which was very healing...as I bled, and cried, I could hear babies down the hall in the nursery...I was 42 and knew that we would never have another baby...but strangely enough I was okay...I had found peace on the journey and healing...maybe that was what this was all about all along.

Although the feeling that she was near never left me, I just felt that this would be the way it was for the rest of my life...maybe we would never be together on this earthly plane. The following spring my older sister, a yoga teacher asked me to accompany her to a Buddhist monastery in the mountains where she was going to give a workshop on meditation and yoga...and would I like to come...well I had a busy family but my DH insisted that I go...he knew that it would be good for me...it had been a dark winter with lots of sadness. That month I did lots of yoga and was working on extending my meditation time so I could keep up with the group...be able to sit for longer in silence and quiet...as I was getting ready to go..packing I realized my period was late...really late actually....and thought...of what the heck, I'd do a hpt...I had tons of them lying around still...I peed and went to pack my tampons etc...when I came back to look at the stick...it showed two pink lines...I was shocked...we hadn't tried at all...I had been working on surrendering, just trusting that month that life would unfold as it was meant to...and here I was...pg at 421/2.

Although I never breathed fully for months, the pg moved forward. I'll never forget my Dr. giving my the amnio results along with the gender in a little piece of paper...I drove to our little town's lookout, over our lake...I sat on a rock and opened the paper...totally expecting to see....'BOY'...but it said, 'normal female'...I had to blink several times...after having 3 boys in a row I thought that IF we had another baby it would be another son...but nope...this little one was a girl.

A year and a week after my m/c, I gave birth to our DD...I was 43. The pg had been wonderful but at the end, she had been born vaginally in the posterior position...with the cord wrapped around her neck twice...I thought...as they tried to get her to take her first breathe...well here we go...I finally have her only to loose her...but then she cried.

Grace Elizabeth will be 10 years this December....do I wonder if she was real....or was the thoughts of her just a dream from my imagination...now I know that she was very real. Years ago we put up a picture in our children's wing of the house and it showed 5 beautiful children at our ocean side resort...it was then that I realized that it was from my dream....she was wearing a pink swimsuit with a little ruffle around the bum...and a little white sun bonnet was on her curls...weird but so reaffiming in telling me to trust my gut, listen to my heart and to believe in dreams.

This journey to Grace taught me the lessons I needed when again after a surprise pgcy and sadly another m/c at almost 45 left me breathless...when I had that familiar whisper that there was another soul vibrating nearby I listened. When I spoke to a psychic healer she said that our spirit babies come and go.....some make it onto the earth....some just come and live for a brief time and don't come again...it is part of their soul's journey as well to decide if they want to incarnate or not into another earth suit...but my little guy stayed close to me.

Funny but I used to call him...my Hope baby...I thought for sure we were having another girl and I planned to name her Hope...but when we finally found out the gender and discovered our first de baby was a boy I just laughed...'where there is a Will there is a way...or as I also think of him...God's Will...he is my sweet William Seaton...Seaton means place by the sea which is where our fertility clinic is located. Anyway...he came to me in my dreams as well...but he was always genderless....just this beautiful baby...bauld...and the moment they placed him in my arms I knew him...he was like a happy buddha...big and round and he has been the HAPPIEST CHILD..oh he smiles and has this wonderful energy about him...he touches people with his hugs whereever he goes.

Before I end this novella...I have to tell you one final story...when ttc our DE baby I was doing weekly acupuncture and working with a TCm Dr....as I would drift off with the lovely needles relaxing my body, I would often dream of my dad coming near me and he often had two babies in his arms...I can remember him handing them to me and looking down at one and then the other with such delight...sometimes there was just one baby...so I was kind of perplexed when we found out that even though we had transferred several blasts...that Will was a singleton.

Not thinking that we would ever have twins...during our last FET, i was truly amazed and in wonder at our first u/s when I saw those two heart beats...and to make it more incredible...we were sent two beautiful girls...so now our family is complete...we have 4 girls and 4 boys...it just amazes me how the last 10 years have been so full of pain and darkness on many occasions while ttc and yet here these gifts are...gifts of wisdom which started while I was near the sea....and during the journey to these babies...and then the actual earthly babies in arms...you wonder if this is your imagination...or real...only in time will you be able to answer that but now you know what I think.

I really love that quote by Dr. Wayne Dyer, 'you will see it when you believe it.'.....not the other way around...we manifest only when we believe...when we think from the end...when we are living in a state of joy and trust...the vibration of what we want comes to us faster...when we live in the state of grace. I WISH THAT FOR YOU.

all the best on your journey to your soulbaby...all shall be well...is a good mantra to start with...blessigns from Hope

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anon for this
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beautiful story ... more (God ment'd)

August 21 2012, 11:00 PM 

I also have been listening to Dr. Wayne Dyer, but I think I still have to get to the place where I believe without doubt, or trust that the universe or God has this plan for me. It is odd though - I have faced IF for so many years, yet when I am still and in a calm place, in my gut, my instinct tells me that this will work for me. Then I come back to reality and think what am I crazy - how can this work after so many years. I do have conflict in my emotions and I know that Wayne Dyer and others say that you have to believe without doubt, but I am not there yet. I also need to get to that state of joy and trust but it is hard after so many years of failure. Thanks for your story above, it is a great story and wonderful that you finally feel complete with your family.

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anon for this
(no login)

Thank you - you ladies are wonderful

August 21 2012, 9:49 AM 

I have been feeling guilty about wanting another child, but all of you gave me the proper perspective. You have all shown me that I don't need to feel guilty. My heart wants another one and there is nothing wrong with it. I think I was equating it to being selfish, and all of you have shown me that there is nothing selfish with wanting another child.

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(Login emilyr99)

I hear you sister! (OE child ment)

August 21 2012, 8:41 PM 

If you've read my recent post, you'll know I have a lot of things going on right now, but I wanted you to know that I could have mirrored you up until DH left!
I have a child that was a miracle after 3.5yrs TTC, so I just assumed that even with IF it would happen again for me. I was desperate for another child and I don't mean to offend anyone on the boards here, but having had an OE child, I think that the need for a second child is just as desperate as for a first child. The longing to be a mum has been filled, but there is no reason why we can't long for more children and not just for our sake, but to have a sibling for our first child and to 'complete' the family unit.
I truly hope that isn't offensive to anyone as I remember how desperate I was for my first child too, but my point is merely that it is all relative and all feelings in this awful IF journey are justified. Don't be too hard on yourself. Have you considered medication to help you through this time. I know it's not for everyone and I personally didn't respond well to anti depressants, but your counsellor would have more knowledge on strategies and medications that could work for you. Come here anytime. Sometimes just knowing you're not alone is enough to get you through the day.
Much love to you.

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anon for this
(Login anon_for_this)

thank you

August 21 2012, 11:16 PM 

I have just read through your posts, and I am sorry for what you are facing with DH. I have thought about antidepressants but then get worried when I see all these ads about birth defects. I do agree with you - there is a desperate need for another child and I think that is why I feel so guilty. Why should I feel desperate when I already have an OE child. But the responses I got made me really think about the fact that I don't need to feel this way. There is nothing selfish about it, and I do appreciate all the responses letting me feel that it is OK to want another one.

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