Dee, I hope the transfer went well, I've been thinking of you.

I'm on day 4 of the tww and having a hard time staying in a hopeful mental space (no pun intended, given my screen name:))

My clinic (Shady Grove) gave us a handout about coping during the tww, focused on positive reframing and challenging negative thinking. I was really impressed. Did not get it at my first transfer there.

Anyway, yesterday, I just finished reading Learned Optimism, by Martin Seligman, a research psychologist at U of PA. I read it for work (I'm a leadership and life coach), but immediately started using it on myself for this tww. By the way, optimism vs. pessimism as he uses them in the book are not just whether we predict things will turn out well or badly. He defines it as our "explanatory style," how we talk to ourselves when bad things happen. If we're pessimistic, we explain bad things to ourselves in a way that's permanent (it and we will always be this way), pervasive (it's not just this situation, but means bad things for other situations in our lives and about us in general), and personal (it's our fault, something we did or didn't do caused this.) If we have an optimistic style, on the other hand, we will tell ourselves it's temporary, isolated to this situation, and due to external circumstances.

He believes that people can learn to have a more optimistic style, and here are his instructions about how to do this. I'll use myself as a case study to illustrate.

-What's the actual Evidence? List all the evidence, both supporting and contradicting the self talk/beliefs.
-What are some possible Alternative explanations? List some alternatives other than the worst case scenario cause you jumped to.
-What are the Implications? even if there is evidence for your negative self talk, are there other implications besides the worst case scenario implication you jumped to?
-What's the Usefulness of thinking this way?

What I was saying to myself: My fresh transfer didn't work and I was so confident and hopeful then. I felt my baby's presence deeply and viscerally, and was dismayed snd devastated to get my BFN. This is never going to work. Why would this time be different? I don't even feel hopeful or connected to my baby now, so there's probably even less of a chance this time. Why am I putting DH and me through this torture? I suck at being spiritually open; if I were able to maintain a more positive, determined attidude, I'd have had success by now. I'm a hopeless failure at manifesting good things in my life. And I've forgotten to take my superantioxidant supplement for the whole tww so far. It's hopeless; I should just give up.

My rebuttal, based on the above questions: I had one failure, yes, but DE is often not successful on the first try. (Evidence) All those OE failure are not relevant here; I'm using different eggs; it's a new game now. (Evidence) Plenty of others have had success with subsequent DE tries. (Evidence) It's possible those polyps on my uterus hindered implantation last time (Alternative), and we've removed them (Evidence). Sure, it would be great to just KNOW and be blissfully confident, but I've heard many stories of women who got a BNP when they weren't feeling confident about the cycle. (Evidence) And even if this cycle is not successful, it doesn't mean I won't be in the future. (Implication) So I forgot to take my OPC, that doesn't mean it's going to cause a BFN or mean anything bad for the baby. (Implication) And I've done everything else just right: shots, prenatal vitamins, extra acu appts, done yoga every day for the past 2 months, got my abs up to par over the past two months. (Evidence) Spiritual intuition comes in many forms and is often indirect and on its own inscrutable time frame. The fact that I haven't had success yet is not a simple cause and effect situation. (Alternative) Who knows what groundwork I'm currently laying with my spiritual practices? (Alternative) I have many good things in my life that are the result of my vision and effort (Evidence). All that negative self just makes me more tense and depressed, definitely not helpful. (Usefulness)

You get the picture.

These concepts are similar to the ones on the SG handout and other models for challenging negative thought habits. (ANT, Byron Katie, etc.) I find it very powerful. I didn't have any role models growing up who exhibited positive thinking, empowerment, or spirituality (my parents are lovely people and totally supportive of me, but they both experienced tragedy and hardship while young, and they just don't find life joyful or approach it with enthusiasm or determination) so I'm having to learn it on my own.

This IF journey is so hard on our psyches, I thought I'd share this, in case anyone find it useful. If pessimstic self talk predated your IF, or whether IF has caused it, these models for changing thought habits really do work!

Hopefully yours:),
Hopeful in Delaware

(Well, I know I logged in to send that previous post, but I guess it didn't take. so I can't edit it. argh!)

so I'll add a note to Dee here:

I was thinking of you with my previous post as a way to help you through the 2ww. you sound really scared, and understandably so. What a trying cycle this has been for you. Big hug. I hope you can find a little glimmer of hope and remember that, even despite the frustraton and scares, this could very well be successful! My fingers are crossed for you that it is.

Can this method work for negative thoughts about age? See my post above. I guess I would list the fear as age, and then come up with evidence to refute it?

First of all, I'm sorry you had that experience. What an opinionated busy-body she sounds like! I would find that very tough to deal with.

Yes, you can apply the method to this situation!

Self Talk/belief: I'm too old to be a mom! It will be weird, and people will always be looking at me, judging me.

Evidence:
-all the ladies on this board who are older-than-average moms all say it's totally worth it! Not that they don't struggle with these thoughts sometimes, but it sounds to me that these thoughts pale in comparison the joy their children bring them.
-Also, sadly, being a young mother doesn't guarantee one will be around for their children's lives. I have two close friends whose mothers died when they were children. These weren't older mothers, but they still got sick and died when their children were very young. My parents were older (for their generation) when they had me, and they're still alive and well. Nothing in life is a guarantee.
-Some people may in fact judge us, and others won't notice or care.

Alternate explanations:
-Others' judgment of us says nothing about us and everything about them. They might be unhappy people trying to make themselves feel better by belittling other's decisions. They might have such a small world view that it doesn't accommodate anything "outside the box." I think that's sad for them, and it says nothing about us.

Implications:
-Yes, we'll be older moms, but that doesn't imply something bad. We often have more life experience, stability, sense of ourselves, realistic expectations of life and other people. Sounds to me like a recipe for good parenting!
-And as for having others judge us for having kids so late, phooey on them. Their opinions don't matter, and they don't get a say in our life decisions. This is hardly a rash decision on our parts; we've thought it through, and invested a lot of our money, time, and life force. We know it's right for us.
-And this will not be universal: many will not notice or care about our age; others will even admire us for our courage to buck convention and go for what we believe is right for us.

Just off the top of my head. Add your own, too.

That exchange you describe would be hard for me, too. Bug hug.

Thank you! You gave me much more than I even thought of. I will be printing this out and adding to it. I'm like you - I didn't really have role models that exhibited positive thinking or empowerment, so I actually grew up being more of a pessimist. I have learned in other areas of my life (school, work) to overcome negativity, but infertility has been hard for me to overcome. I actually probably started off thinking more positively about it (years ago when I first started TTC, I figured it would work at some time), but the years of failures has really brought me to a very pessimistic place.

I hope your TWW goes smoothly. Hugs!

Yeah, infertility has done a number on my capacity for optimism, too.

Glad I could help get the jiuce flowing!

Thanks for the good wishes for a BFP!

Take good care.

for that. I plan to re-read it several times to challenge my negative thoughts. It is just so hard to think rationally when you see blood during a cycle. Panic takes over. BTW, I had my transfer yesterday, my lining was at 11 by that time; so that is a good sign. I know this cycle may not work, so I need to figure out what to do differently next time. I am on heparin now, something I didn't do with some of the previous failed cycles.

OMG, I think it would be impossible to be at all rational in those moments. All we can then do is take some deep breaths and try to get through it.

I'm glad the transfer went through. Have a good trip home. Once you're home and settled and in the tww, I thought this the above post might be useful. And to anyone in the tww, as it really messes with us. Just thought of you, as I'm in the tww now, and it has been helpful.

Take good care, and fingers crossed for the best outcome!

I'm thinking positive thoughts for you!

So happy your pg is going smoothly! Sending you good thoughts.

Thanks so much for this Hopeful...

I read that Martin Seligman book a year or two back (loved it) but had forgotten most of that good stuff. I've been struggling because I've been in and out of hospital for the last month and it's really shaken my belief in my health and self (I'd be a single Mum). Then as it happens, the person who's been helping look after me recommended Byron Katie to me just a few days ago so seeing you post about Martin S and Byron Katie seems so much like seeing the right messages at the time they're needed.....

So thanks heaps for taking the time to post all of that. I hope your 2ww passes speedily and has the best possible outcome

Al

Yes, sounds like you are meant to revisit the concepts! So glad the timing worked out like that.

Sorry to hear you've had health problems recently; I hope you're feeling better!

Thanks for the good wishes!

How many embryos did you transfer?

we are pretty twin-averse, for a variety of reasons in our situation. So I didn't want to risk it.

How about you?

all the best