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T218 series breakdown and ad backs

January 9 2009 at 10:16 AM
  (Login Elemenopeo)


I posted this over on the CU boards last week, but wanted to throw it out here as well. And this may be old news to some, but it was a revelation to me when I recently found a pattern in the T218 cards that seems to break the set into three groups... groups that I suspect are the three different series in which the cards were issued... with 53 cards in the 1st, 49 cards in the 2nd , and 51 in the 3rd... It'd be nice if the splits matched up better with the "51 to 100" notation on the back of the Series 2 cards, but the fact that there are 153 cards in the set would seem to indicate that the issuer wasn't married to the number 50.

I believe that while Mecca ads can be found on cards from all three series, Hassan ads are only found on cards from Series 1 and 2 (a total of 102 cards). So, if you have a card with a Hassan ad and there's no "Series #2" notation on the back, it's from Series 1. All 53 cards in Series 1 with Mecca ads have the phrase "Champion Athletes and Prize Fighter Series". Mecca cards from Series 2 have the same phrase and include the "Series #2" notation. On the 51 cards in Series 3, the phrase is turned around a bit, beginning with "Series of..." Also, all but three of the cards in Series 3 (Thure Johansson, J.J. McEntee, and Edward Payson Weston) have a black border framing the image... and this series includes all the golfers, bowlers, billiards players and aviators plus 24 athletes and boxers. And it seems pretty clear this is the third series because of the dates mentioned in the text. I can't find mention of any events past 1909 on Series 1 cards, there are a few 1910 references on Series 2 cards, and more on Series 3... J.B. Moisant's card notes he was killed on the last day of 1910.

Lastly, after going through all the scans I could find, I'm pretty confident that Tolstoi backs exist only on Series 2 cards, though they don't have the "Series #2" notation like their Mecca and Hassan parallels.

So, the checklists by series would be...


Series 1

Platt Adams
Dan Ahearne
Abe Attell
Chas. J. Bacon Jr
Sailor Burke
Robert Cloughen
Tom Collins
Johnny Coulon
James Crowley
C.M. Daniels (seated)
Jem Driscoll
Jack Eller
Ray Ewry
John Flanagan (full length)
R.E. Frizelle
Jimmy Gardner
S.P. Gilles
Andrew Glarner
Budd Goodwin
H.J. Handy
Harry Hillman
Battling Hurley
Dick Hyland
Frank C. Irons
James J. Jeffries
Jack Johnson (side)
Stanley Ketchell
Bert Keyes
Walter Lee
Harry Lewis
Willie Lewis
Lou Manley
Johnny Marto
Packey McFarland
Phil McGovern
M.J. McGrath
Owen Moran
Tommy Murphy
Battling Nelson
Thomas O'Callaghan
Paul PIlgrim
Harry Porter
W.C. Robbins
Lawson Robertson
Melvin W. Sheppard (side)
Martin Sheridan
Jim Stewart
Jack Twin Sullivan
Mike Twin Sullivan
C.D. Trubenbach
Eddie Walsh
Billy West
Ad Wolgast

Series 2

Patsy Brannigan
Knock-out Brown
Walter Bursch
Young Corbett
Leach Cross
C.M. Daniels (head to waist)
Young Donahoe
W.C. Fielding
John Flanagan (head to waist)
Joe Gans
George Gardiner
H.E. Gissing
Abe Goodman
Jack Goodman
Charley Griffin
J.L. Hartranft
Harry Haywood Jr.
Joe Jeanette
James Jeffries
Harry Jensen
Jack Johnson (front)
Joseph Jordan
Al Kaufman
W.J. Keating
W.J. Kramer
Sam Langford
Young Loughrey
Emilo Lunghi
Honey Mellody
Frankie Neil
Fighting Dick Nelson
Young Nitchie
Smythe Northridge
George J. Obermeyer
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Tommy O'Keefe
Billy Papke
Frank Riley
J.A. Ruddy
UNK Russell
Harry Sedley Jr.
Melvin W. Sheppard (front)
C.C. Steinert
Harry Stone
James P. Sullivan
Clarence B. Tippett
Jimmy Walsh
R.P. Williams
Harold A. Wilson

Series 3

Matty Baldwin
Harry Cline
Frankie Conley
Albert Cutler (playing)
Albert Cutler (portrait)
John Daly
Alfredo De Oro
Al Delmont
Calvin Demarest
Dave Deshler
Findlay Douglas
Alex Dunbar
Charles Eyton
Charles K. Hamilton
Johnny Hayes
William Heins
F. Herreshoff
Jack Hobens
Hans Holmer
Willie Hoppe(playing)
Willie Hoppe (portrait)
Arch Hoxsey
Thomas Hueston
Thure Johansson
Lee R. Johns
Ralph Johnstone
Jerome Keogh
Abel Kiviat
Frank Klaus
Patsey Kline
Gusta Ljungstrom
George Low
J.J. McEntee
Fred Meadows
J.B. Moisant
Ora Morningstar (playing)
Ora Morningstar (portrait)
Gil Nicholls
Tommy O'Toole
James Rector
Glenn Riddell
Percy Sellen
Alex Smith
Johnny Summers (seated)
Johnny Summers (standing)
George Sutton (playing)
George Sutton (portrait)
E.J. Sweeney
Fred Welsh
Cowboy Charles Weston
Edward Payson Weston

So, there it is. If anyone has additional info on this, I'd love to hear it.


 
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AuthorReply


(Login boxingcardman)

This is a great issue

January 9 2009, 11:10 AM 

I have been working on a detailed checklist of the cards with some other collectors for a while now.

W/r/t Johnson, I have and have seen Johnson in both poses in both series. I own a Johnson front and a Johnson side both with Mecca series 2 backs. I also own a number of Tolstoi back Johnsons, all of which are front pose.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

 
 

(Login Elemenopeo)

Re: T218 series breakdown and ad backs

January 9 2009, 11:32 AM 


Well, those Johnson cards are a real problem for my theory, except for the Tolstoi thing.... Hmmm. Back to the drawing board, I guess.

I'd love to see your checklist on this.


 
 


(Login boxingcardman)

When it is ready to publish

January 9 2009, 1:00 PM 

I will post a link to it.

In the meantime, does your list represent actual cards you've checklisted?

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

 
 


(Login boxingcardman)

Also

January 9 2009, 1:08 PM 

Mike Sullivan is available as a Tolstoi card and in series 1 and series 2.

Both Summers are available as Mecca Series 1, as is Jimmy Walsh, Matty Baldwin,

Gans is available in both series and in Tolstoi.

Those are off the top of my head; I'm sure there are more.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc


    
This message has been edited by boxingcardman on Jan 9, 2009 1:13 PM


 
 

(Login Elemenopeo)

Re: T218 series breakdown and ad backs

January 9 2009, 3:44 PM 


Yeah, I put my checklist together by going through every card of my own and every back scan I could find to make sure I couldn't find one that blew the pattern. (One complete set on the PSA registry includes back scans on all the cards.) But obviously you have a number of cards that don't fit my mold... I'm particularly surprised to hear that you have a Matty Baldwin that doesn't have the "Series of..." phrase on the back. Could you post a scan that one for me? I'd really appreciate it.


 
 


(Login boxingcardman)

I will try

January 9 2009, 5:27 PM 

I will have to dig out the card and scan it. May take a few days.

Do you have yours broken down by mfg as well as series? I am cataloging them that way.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

 
 
DaveW
(Login DWeisner)

Re: T218 series breakdown and ad backs

January 20 2009, 4:43 PM 

Very interesting. Also, how do the C52 cards fit in? They are basically
the T218 cards but with numbers and no ad back. All the ones I have are in
your Series 1. Does anybody have the complete list of those cards? It might
be a good place to start since they were probably just one series of T218s
that were sent off to the Imperial Tobacco Co.
- Dave

 
 

(Login Elemenopeo)

Re: T218 series breakdown and ad backs

January 20 2009, 5:48 PM 


The PSA population report of C52s includes cards from all three series of my hypothosized and apparently inaccurate T218 breakdown. They list numbers for the individual cards from 1 through 50 AND nos. 69, 88 and 96. Weird. Someone also posted a No. 63 (Nicholls) on the CU boards not long ago.



From PSA....



1 Jack Johnson

2 James J. Jeffries

3 Clarence B. Tippett

4 James P. Sullivan

5 Walter Bursch

6 Unk Russell

7 Frank Riley

8 H.E. Gissing

9 James Crowley

10 S.P. Gilles

11 Andrew Glarner

12 Battling Hurley

13 Melvin W. Sheppard

14 Lou Manley

15 Ray C. Ewry

16 Frank C. Irons

17 Jim Stewart

18 Robert Cloughen

19 W.C. Robbins

20 Thomas O'callaghan

21 Harry Hillman

22 Martin Sheridan

23 C.M. Daniels

24 Johnny Coulon

25 Platt Adams

26 George J. Obermeyer

27 Tom Collins

28 Lawson Robertson

29 Paul Pilgrim

30 Jack Sullivan

31 Jack Eller

32 John Flanagan

33 Emilo Lunghi

34 Jem Driscoll

35 Eddie Walsh

36 Richard Frizelle

37 Chas J. Bacon Jr.

38 Dan Ahearne

39 Owen Moran

40 Willie Lewis

41 Billy West

42 Johnny Marto

43 Jimmy Gardner

44 Harry Lewis

45 Stanley Ketchell

46 Phil Mcgovern

47 Walter Lee

48 Abe Attell

49 Sailor Burke

50 Jimmy Walsh

69 Frank Klaus

88 Harry Cline

96 William Heins





    
This message has been edited by Elemenopeo on Jan 20, 2009 5:49 PM


 
 

(Login DWeisner)

Re: T218 series breakdown and ad backs

January 20 2009, 6:18 PM 

That's strange. Most of the cards you list match my list except I have
#3 as Tommy Murphy, #8 as Packy McFarland and #33 as MJ McGrath. I wonder
if the PSA list is wrong or if they have some duplicate numbers. Where is
Boxingcardman when you need him?
- Dave

 
 


(Login boxingcardman)

Here I come to save the day!

January 20 2009, 10:56 PM 

Well, not. But I can confirm Jack Johnson as #1; I have one.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

 
 
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