TORTURE
Its official. According to CIA officials, waterboarding detainees did not foil any terror plots. Waterboarding did produce false information. [CBS NEWS]

edited to add----pay attention to what Gates says about strategy:

SUNDAY, BLOODY SUNDAY
Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace
GUEST: SECRETARY OF DEFENSE ROBERT GATES
On presidential support: Well, let me be very clear about this: the President has approved every single soldier I have requested of him. I have not sent any requests for units or troops to the President so far that he has not approved... [AUDIO, :48]
On communications: ...But the reality is, the Pakistanis had contacts with these groups when they were fighting the Soviets... [AUDIO, :29]
On Mexican drug violence: ...I think President Calderon has acted with enormous courage and forcefully in sending troops in to try and get control of that situation... [AUDIO, :33]
On the global war on terror and differences between President Bush and President Obama: ...We have the opportunity now that perhaps we did not have before, to apply the kind of resources, both military and civilian against it, and a broader kind of strategy that we did not have before... [AUDIO, :23]SUNDAY, BLOODY SUNDAY
Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace
GUEST: SECRETARY OF DEFENSE ROBERT GATES
On presidential support: Well, let me be very clear about this: the President has approved every single soldier I have requested of him. I have not sent any requests for units or troops to the President so far that he has not approved... [AUDIO, :48]
On communications: ...But the reality is, the Pakistanis had contacts with these groups when they were fighting the Soviets... [AUDIO, :29]
On Mexican drug violence: ...I think President Calderon has acted with enormous courage and forcefully in sending troops in to try and get control of that situation... [AUDIO, :33]
On the global war on terror and differences between President Bush and President Obama: ...We have the opportunity now that perhaps we did not have before, to apply the kind of resources, both military and civilian against it, and a broader kind of strategy that we did not have before... [AUDIO, :23]SUNDAY, BLOODY SUNDAY
Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace
GUEST: SECRETARY OF DEFENSE ROBERT GATES
On presidential support: Well, let me be very clear about this: the President has approved every single soldier I have requested of him. I have not sent any requests for units or troops to the President so far that he has not approved... [AUDIO, :48]

On communications: ...But the reality is, the Pakistanis had contacts with these groups when they were fighting the Soviets... [AUDIO, :29]
On Mexican drug violence: ...I think President Calderon has acted with enormous courage and forcefully in sending troops in to try and get control of that situation... [AUDIO, :33]

On the global war on terror and differences between President Bush and President Obama: ...We have the opportunity now that perhaps we did not have before, to apply the kind of resources, both military and civilian against it, and a broader kind of strategy that we did not have before... [AUDIO, :23]

-----a lack of coherent strategy led to ineffective tactics and a focus on the wrong theatre of war.


Could the bushite cabal do anything right? they even failed to overthow the country although they did put its economy in the tank through lack of regulation.

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. - Carl Sagan

I believe that every right implies a responsibility, every opportunity an obligation; every possession, a duty. - John D. Rockefeller, Jr.

Gee, J2, I am surprised that you give so muych opinion and so little fact. It's getting hard to believe anything you say. But that's nothing new because it has alkways been hard to believe your nonsense since your opinionsare supported by so little evidence.

Gee, J2, I am surprised that you give so muych opinion and so little fact. It's getting hard to believe anything you say. But that's nothing new because it has alkways been hard to believe your nonsense since your opinionsare supported by so little evidence.

**********************************************

Are you suggesting that your opinions are supported by a *LOT* of evidence?

Jim..

list my opinions in this post potese. and note that I gave you the honour of first exploding skull, thus letting in the light.

Fact CIA says torture does not work to get good information.
Fact Sec of Defence hold over from bush says better strategy in war on terror.

where are my opinions in the post. perhaps that is what makes you a kneejerk mush skull, your inability to tell facts from opinions.

Now you could have said that I posted other people's opinions, and I would reply that those people were in a more appropriate position to know the facts than you or I, but you did not so I need not.

perhaps that is what makes you a kneejerk mushskull, your inability to be precise or to properly employ the English language.

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. - Carl Sagan

I believe that every right implies a responsibility, every opportunity an obligation; every possession, a duty. - John D. Rockefeller, Jr.

Are you suggesting that your opinions are supported by a LOT of evidence?

Jim..

As a matter of fact I am suggesting that very thing. After all, I pointed out your using a plural pronoun with a singular verb. that is evidence. and I further pointed out that you lacked the understanding of the difference between restrictive and non restrictive clauses. so, yes, I do present evidence with my opinion. But I notice that you never have much more than assertions.

As a matter of fact I am suggesting that very thing. After all, I pointed out your using a plural pronoun with a singular verb. that is evidence. and I further pointed out that you lacked the understanding of the difference between restrictive and non restrictive clauses. so, yes, I do present evidence with my opinion. But I notice that you never have much more than assertions.

************************

Ok, please post your evidence.

thank you.

Jim..

Well, J2, you did not give any specific cases. None. therefore you are stating an unsupproted opinion. I rtecall that some torture did cause the correct information to be gained and used to the benefit of those who torturedf.

BTW Watereboa=rding was acceptable until recently. But we shall see what Obama does to gain information from the enemy. He will probably authorize torture, but the media will keep it under cover.

Why don't you respond to the thread entitled "Rachel"?

again you misunderstand or pretend to misunderstand the posting.

I posted no opinion of my own. I posted the statements of people in a position to know the facts. Now you have alleged a "fact" that in your recollection waterboarding produced in some instance the correct information. I accept the fact that you recollect it. But is what you recollect an actual fact. Post the exact incident where it was waterboarding that produced the correct information and prove if you will, the ancillary facts that it did it when no other method would work and it did it more quickly than any other method would. Absent such proof we only have your unsupported assertion that your recollection is correct.

In other words until you expand your proof we only have your opinion that your memory is accurate.

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. - Carl Sagan

I believe that every right implies a responsibility, every opportunity an obligation; every possession, a duty. - John D. Rockefeller, Jr.

I do not have to prove that no other methowd would be effective. The premise is strictly water boarding. And there are those who believe that it has worked and those who believe it doesn't work.

And there are those who believed the Koran was flushed down the toilet, and Dan Rather believed George W. Bush's commander had varified Dan's fantasy.

potese its not that you do not have to prove. It is that you cannot prove. You do not live in a fact based universe, you are awash in bullshit and take it on faith that it is manna.

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. - Carl Sagan

I believe that every right implies a responsibility, every opportunity an obligation; every possession, a duty. - John D. Rockefeller, Jr.