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The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009 at 11:01 AM
sandeelady  (Login grand_sandee)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090403/ap_on_re_us/iowa_gay_marriage

All Americans deserve equal treatment under the law.  Good for Iowa

 

 

 

.



"And the song that I am singing is a prayer for nonbelievers
Come and join us stand together, we will find a better way" ..........John Denver

 
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(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 11:18 AM 

  Polygamists take hope in the visionaries of Iowa.

gus.

 


 
 


(Login roby2000)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 11:26 AM 

As usual, gus is targeting hi vile hatred at the wrong group.  We're talking monogamy here, genius.  I'm ouuta here, this is getting very boring.

Buh Bye!



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We are all equal, but we definitely are not the same"
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(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 11:47 AM 

As usual, gus is targeting hi vile hatred at the wrong group.  We're talking monogamy here, genius.  I'm ouuta here, this is getting very boring.

    So monogamists have a right to descriminate against others who are different?  How quaint...

gus.

 


 
 

webpm
(Login webpm1)

and.....

April 3 2009, 11:48 AM 

just think of all those poor lonely hog farmers.....

Won't be long and they can marry one of their favorites soon too....

 
 
sandeelady
(Login grand_sandee)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 12:52 PM 

We are talking about equal opportunity for all American citizens under the law. What ridiculous responses from the bigotted corner.

 
 

webpm
(Login webpm1)

Sandy....

April 3 2009, 1:03 PM 

we all ready have that.....a man and a woman can marry.....EVERYONE in America has that option under the law...there is no "right" written anywhere.....

 
 
sandeelady
(Login grand_sandee)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 1:04 PM 

Fortunately the court in Iowa does not agree with you.  Isn't change wonderful?

 
 

webpm
(Login webpm1)

Sandy....

April 3 2009, 1:13 PM 

in thsi case, no. And, the majority of Americans do not think this kind of change is good....just a fact. Having courts make law is not good! They are supposed to enforce laws!

 
 

Maw
(Login mawsword)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 1:24 PM 

I think it's great sandee. It's good to see America finally coming out of the Puritan age.

I'm sure RL will support it. Then he too can come out.



No one can make you feel inferior without your consent
************************
Eleanor Roosevelt

 
 
Guest
(Login BaconGrease)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 1:49 PM 

A different perspective on Equality (a favorite liberal term)

What if Gay Marriage is the Wrong Fight?

by Mattilda aka Matt Bernstein Sycamore

05.05.06

DropCap_A.gifs legends go, San Francisco is the place for sexual debauchery, gender transgression, and political deviance (not to mention sexual deviance, gender debauchery, and political transgression). The reality is that while San Francisco still shelters outsider queer cultures unimaginable in most other cities, these cultures of resistance have been ravaged by AIDS, drug addiction, and gentrification. Direct on-the-street violence by rampaging straights remains rare in comparison to other queer destination cities like New York, Chicago, or New Orleans, but a newer threat has emerged. San Francisco, more than any other US city, is the place where a privileged gay (and lesbian) elite has actually succeeded at its goal of becoming part of the power structure. Unfortunately (but not surprisingly), members of the gaysbian elite use their newfound influence to oppress less privileged queers in order to secure their status within the status quo. This pattern occurs nationwide, but San Francisco is the place where the violence of this assimilation is most palpable.

I first moved to San Francisco in 1992, just before my 19th birthday, and was completely terrified by the conformity, hyper-masculinity, and blind consumerism of the legendary gay Castro district. I quickly figured out that this could never be my community, and always assumed that it wasnt anyone elses, either. Then one day, just recently, I was walking through the Castro with a friend of mine, whose social group includes a number of gay white men in their 50s, and everywhere guys were smiling at him and reaching out with great big hugs. I realized, then, that the Castro was somebodys community, and this was, for a moment, a revelation.

What is sad about the Castro (and similar gay neighborhoods across the country and around the world), and indicative of what gay people do with even a little bit of power, is that these same smiling gay men have failed to build community for queers (or anyone) outside their social groups. Many gay men (even in the Castro) still remain on the fringes, either by choice or lack of opportunity. But as the most successful gays (and their allies) have moved from outsider status to insider clout, they have consistently fought misogynist, racist, classist, ageist battles to ensure that their neighborhoods remain communities only for the rich, male, and white (or at least those who assimilate into white middle-class norms). Theyve succeeded in clamping down on the anger, defiance, flamboyance, and subversion once thriving in queer subcultures, in order to promote a vapid, consume-or-die, only-whites-need-apply version of gay identity. Homo now stands more for homogenous than any type of sexuality aside from buy buy buy.

In 1992, there were still a few slightly interesting things about the Castro: a gay bookstore with current queer zines, and freaks and drag queens on staff; a used bookstore with a large selection of gay books; a cafe with live cabaret shows; a 24-hour donut shop with a rotating cast of tweakers; a tiny chocolate shop filled with delicate creations; a dyke bar; and a cruising park where faggots actually fucked. These meager (and mostly fag-specific) resources have disappeared, as rents have skyrocketed and corporate chains have replaced local businesses. A glittering Diesel clothing store now dominates Harvey Milk Plaza, the symbolic heart of the Castro, and the historic Castro Theater shows Eating Out, a movie about a straight guy pretending to be gay in order to get the girl with the gay friends. (The tagline reads, The fastest way to a girls heart is through her best friend.)

Gay bar owners routinely call for the arrest of homeless people, many of them queer youth, for getting in the way of happy hour. Zephyr Realty, a gay-owned real estate company, advises its clients on how best to evict long-term tenants, many of them seniors, people with HIV/AIDS and disabled people. Gay political consultants mastermind the election of anti-poor, pro-development candidates over and over and over.

In 1998, wealthy gay Castro residents (dont forget lesbians and straight people!) fought against a queer youth shelter because they feared it would get in the way of community property values. They warned that a queer youth shelter would bring prostitution and drug-dealing to the neighborhood. For a moment, lets leave aside the absurdity of a wealthy gay neighborhood, obviously already a prime destination for prostitutes of a certain gender and drug-dealing of only the best substances, worrying about the wrong kind of prostitutes (the ones in the street) and the wrong kind of drug dealers (the ones who dont drive Mercedes) arriving in their whitewashed gayborhood.

One sign of the power of San Franciscos gay elite is that any successful mayoral candidate must pander to the gay vote. It was no surprise when, in February 2003, Gavin Newsom (a straight, ruling class city council member representing San Franciscos wealthiest district) hosted a lavish, $120-a-plate fundraiser at the new $18 million LGBT Center. At that point, Newsom was most famous for a ballot measure called Care Not Cash, which took away homeless peoples general assistance checks and replaced them with care. Gay Shame, a radical queer activist group, gathered to protest Newsoms agenda of criminalizing homeless people in order to get ahead at the polls, as well as to call attention to the hypocrisy of the center for welcoming Newsoms dirty money instead of taking a stand against his blatantly racist and classist politics. Whose center was this, we asked? Was it a center for marginalized queersqueers of color, homeless queers, trans queers, disabled queers, radical queersor a center for straight politicians to hold dinner parties?

Our questions were answered when police officers, called by the center, began to bash us as soon as they escorted Newsom inside. One officer hit a Gay Shame demonstrator in the face with his baton, shattering one of her teeth and bloodying her entire face. Several of us were thrown face-first into oncoming traffic; one protester was put into a chokehold until he passed out. As four of us were dragged off in handcuffs for protesting outside our center, center staff stood and watched, and did nothing to intervene. Neither Newsom nor the center has ever made a statement condemning the police violence of February 2003. In fact, one year later, newly-elected Mayor Gavin Newsom rewarded those same powerful gays who stood on the center balcony and watched queers get bashed. Newsom grabbed national headlines and solidified his San Francisco support base by legalizing gay marriage, after which throngs of gay people from across the country descended upon city hall at all hours of the day and night, camping out, sharing snacks and wine, and toasting Gavin Newsom as the vanguard leader of gay civil rights.

I Think Were Alone Now: Citizenship, Gay Marriage, and the Christian Right

In the fall of 2004, Marriage Equality, a brand new brand of nonprofit, held two amazing benefits in Washington, DC and New York City. Called Wedrock, these star-studded events featured numerous celebrities and major-label activist rockers, including Moby, Sleater-Kinney, Bob Mould, and Le Tigre. Just to get people all excited about marriage equality, the promotional email for the events concluded by stating, Get angry, protect your citizenship.

If gay marriage is about protecting citizenship, whose citizenship is being protected? Most people in this countryespecially those not born rich, white, straight, and maleare not [enjoying the rights supposedly granted to] full citizens. The not-so-subtle demand to protect your citizenship evokes images of George W. Bushs screeds against enemies of freedom. Gay assimilationists want to make sure theyre on the winning side in the citizenship wars, and see no need to confront the legacies of systemic and systematic US oppression that prevent most people living in this country (and everywhere else) from exercising their supposed rights. This willful participation in US imperialism is part of the larger goal of assimilation, as the holy trinity of marriage, military service, and adoption has become the central preoccupation of a gay movement centered more on obtaining straight privilege than challenging power.

Gay assimilationists have created the ultimate genetically modified organism, combining virulent strains of nationalism, patriotism, consumerism, and patriarchy and delivering them in one deadly product: state-sanctioned matrimony. Gay marriage proponents are anxious to discard those tacky hues of lavender and pink, in favor of the good ol stars and stripes, literally draping themselves in Old Glory at every pro-marriage demonstration as the US occupies Iraq, overthrows the only democratically elected government in the history of Haiti, funds the Israeli war on the Palestinians, and makes the whole world safe...for multinational corporations to plunder indigenous resources.

A gay elite has hijacked queer struggle and positioned their desires as everyones needsthe dominant signs of straight conformity have become the ultimate signs of gay success. Sure, for white gays with beach condos, country club memberships, and nice stock portfolios with a couple hedge funds that need trimming every now and then (think of Rosie ODonnell or David Geffen), marriage might just be the last thing standing in the way of full citizenship, but what about for everyone else?

Even when the gay rights agenda does include real issues, it does it in a way that consistently prioritizes the most privileged while fucking over everyone else. Im using the term gay rights, instead of the more popular term of the moment, LGBT rights, because LGBT usually means gay, with lesbian in parentheses, throw out the bisexuals, and put trans on for a little window-dressing. A gay rights agenda fights for an end to discrimination in housing and employment, but not for the provision of housing or jobs; domestic partner health coverage, but not universal health coverage. Or, more recently, hospital visitation and inheritance rights for married couples, but not for anyone else. Even with the most obviously gay issue, that of anti-queer violence, a gay rights agenda fights for tougher hate crimes legislation instead of fighting the racism, classism, transphobia (and homophobia) intrinsic to the criminal justice system.

The violence of assimilation lies in the ways the borders are policed. For decades, there has been a tension within queer politics and cultures between assimilationists and liberationists, conservatives and radicals. Never before, however, has the assimilationist/conservative side held such a stranglehold over popular representations of what it means to be queer. Gay marriage proponents are anxious to discard generations of queer efforts to create new ways of loving, lusting for, and caring for one another, in favor of a 1950s model of white picket fence, were just like you normalcy.

The ultimate irony of gay liberation is that it has made it possible for straight people to create more fluid gender, sexual, and social identities, while mainstream gay people salivate over state-sanctioned Tiffany wedding bands and participatory patriarchy. Many straight people know that marriage is outdated, tacky, and oppressiveand any queer who grew up in or around marriage should remember this well. Marriage still exists as a central site of anti-woman, anti-child, and anti-queer violence, and remains a key institution through which the wealth and property of upper class and/or white families are preserved. If gay marriage proponents wanted real progress, theyd be fighting for the abolition of marriage (duh), and for universal access to the services that marriage can sometimes help procure: housing, healthcare, citizenship, tax breaks, and inheritance rights.

Instead, gay marriage proponents claim that access to marriage will solve fundamental problems of inequality. This is not surprising, given that the gay marriage movement is run by groups like the Human Rights Campaign and the Log Cabin Republicans, who have more in common with the National Rifle Association than any sort of left agenda, queer or otherwise. These are the same gays who routinely instigate police violence against people of color, homeless people, transgender people, sex workers, and other marginalized queers, in their never-ending quest to clean up the neighborhoods theyve gentrified. Their agenda is cultural erasure, and they want the full Monty.

For a long time, queers have married straight friends for citizenship or healthcarebut this has never been enshrined as progress. The majority of queerssingle or coupled (but not desiring marriage), monogamous or polyamorous, jobless or marginally employedremain excluded from the much-touted benefits of legalized gay marriage. Furthermore, in order to access any marriage benefits, those not entirely male or female would need to accept gender tyranny. As gay marriage continues to dominate the mainstream gay agenda, resources are directed away from HIV prevention, AIDS services, drug treatment, domestic violence services, and other programs desperately needed by less privileged queersinstead, millions of dollars are being poured into the marriage coffin. The fight between pro-marriage and anti-marriage queers is not a disagreement between two segments of a supposed community, but a fight over the fundamental goals of queer struggle.

Gay marriage proponents are anxious to further the media myth that there are only two sides to the gay marriage/assimilation debate: foaming-at-the-mouth Christian fundamentalists who think gay marriage marks the death of Western civilization, and rabid gay assimilationists who act as if gay marriage is the best thing since Queer Eye for the Straight Girl.

It is no coincidence that queers who oppose gay marriage are shut out of the picture, since its much easier for a gay marriage proponent to win an argument with a crazed homophobe than with an anti-marriage queer. And every time some well-meaning straight leftist thinks theyre being open-minded by taking the gay marriage side, they need to go back to Feminism 101.

Of course, Christian fundamentalists make no distinction between diesel dykes and Diesel jeans, or, to be more directthey think all queers are gonna burn in hell, Tiffany or no Tiffany. Every time gay marriage proponents patiently explain to fundamentalists, One, twowere just like you! Three, fourwe bash queers more! the Christian right gains authority. But this false polarization serves gay assimilationists as well, by silencing queers who threaten the power that lies behind their sweatshop-produced nylon rainbow flags.

When gay assimilationists cheerfully affirm, over and over again, to lunatics who want them dead, that of course gay identity is not a choice (because who would choose it?), they unwittingly expose the tyranny of simplistic identity politics. Not only have the dominant signs of straight conformity become the central goals of the gay assimilationist movement, but assimilationists see a threat to Christian fundamentalist security as a threat to their version of progress. Forget about choosing our gender, sexual, or social identities, forget about building community or family outside of traditional norms, forget about dismantling dominant systems of oppressionlets just convince the Christian right to accept us on their own terms.

Movement Rights, Civil Community

On January 13, 2005, 22 national LGBT rights organizations issued a joint statement with the leaden title, Civil Rights. Community. Movement. Unsurprisingly, this document is filled with empty rhetoric such as, We, literally, are everywhere, and Stand up. Spread the word. Share your story. It even quotes gay rights pioneer President George W. Bush from an interview in People, where he agrees, in spite of his support for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, that a couple joined by a civil union is as much of a family as he and Barbara.

Civil Rights. Community. Movement, opens by defining civil rights as the rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship [italics added]. Here we can already glimpse the exclusionary agenda of the gay rights movement. Instead of calling for universal access to benefits generally procured through citizenship (such as the right to remain in this country), this document seeks to secure a gay place at the red-white-and-blue table of normalcy, on the fashionable side of the barbed wire.

This opening paragraph also attributes the successes of civil rights movements to the complex interweaving of legal victories, political progress, and advances in public opinion. Even a mainstream liberal would agree that many civil rights victories came about in large part through mass protests and extensive civil (and uncivil) disobedience campaigns. But the LGBT movement prefers empty terms like political progress and advances in public opinion to any recognition of direct action struggles. You dont want to frighten the funders!

The document continues by talking about challenging the family values rhetoric of a small but powerful group of anti-gay extremists by [opening] Americas eyes to the true family values that LGBT couples, parents and families are living and demonstrating every day. This is where LGBT rights becomes most sinister. In allegedly attempting to challenge the radical right, this document still insists on defining family values along heteronormative lines, rolling back decades of queer struggle to create chosen families that do more than just mimic the twisted ones assigned to us at birth.

When the report notes that, Binational LGBT couples and families can be cruelly torn apart by deportation and immigration laws that treat them as legal strangers, we are led to believe that marriage is the only solution to this citizenship dilemma. No mention is made of non-coupled queers who are deported while seeking asylum, systemic racial profiling in citizenship decisions, or routine murders of undocumented immigrants on US borders. Instead, the document states, We must fight for family laws that give our children strong legal ties to their parents. One must infer that this pertains to the cases of lesbian and gay parents who lose custody of their children due to homophobic courts, though this is, astoundingly, not mentioned. While a shortsighted focus on parental control should be no surprise when coming from a so-called movement centered around marriage, it is particularly striking given the extremely high rates of suicide, drug addiction and homelessness among queer youth, especially those escaping scary families of origin. What about family laws that allow children to get away from abusive parents? What about providing support systems for queer youth?

The organizations behind Civil Rights. Community. Movement, prefer to talk about the true family values of straight-acting gays than to resist the tyranny of assimilationist norms. Apparently, true family values call for more inclusive hate crimes legislation, but no challenge to the prison-industrial complex. True family values call for overturning the militarys anti-LGBT ban instead of confronting US imperialism. True family values require all of us to invest in the movement, to invest in our future. Thats rightsend in your check NOW, before you get priced out.

http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featmattilda_gaymarriage_p.html


 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 2:00 PM 

We are talking about equal opportunity for all American citizens under the law. What ridiculous responses from the bigotted corner.

   Okay, so is it bigotted to ban polygymous marraiges?

gus.

 


 
 

(Login gillis7)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 4:25 PM 

All Americans deserve equal treatment under the law. Good for Iowa


amen


one citizen one vote...regardless of income


one citizen one tax rate ...regardless of income


end the (marxist)income tax

 
 


(Login j2saret)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 6:04 PM 

one income one tax percentage regardless of citizen.

and by the way webpee, don't worry a pig wouldn't kiss you

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. - Carl Sagan

I believe that every right implies a responsibility, every opportunity an obligation; every possession, a duty. - John D. Rockefeller, Jr.

 
 

webpm
(Login webpm1)

j2.....

April 3 2009, 6:21 PM 

thanks for the tip, you certainly sound, and act, like you have very personal and expert knowledge on the matter......

 
 


(Login moniker12)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 6:32 PM 

Couple of things here....

"...In its ruling, the Supreme Court upheld an August 2007 decision by a judge who found that a state law limiting marriage to a man and a woman violates the constitutional rights of equal protection..."

There's that handy "equal protection" clause again. Except, this is the Iowa Constitution, not the U.S. It would be interesting to see how case law led those judges to determine this issue under the Iowa equal protection clause, whatever that is.

But more importantly, here is a shining example of the poor quality of critical thinking at America's top universities:

John Logan, a sociology professor at Brown University, said Iowa's status as a largely rural, Midwest state could enforce an argument that gay marriage is no longer a fringe issue. "When it was only California and Massachusetts, it could be perceived as extremism on the coasts and not related to core American values. But as it extends to states like Iowa, and as attitudes toward gay marriage have evidently changed, then people will look at it as an example of broad acceptance," Logan said.

That's a huge leap of logic and it doesn't make it across the abyss. For one thing, judicial rulings don't reflect the "attitudes" of people. The professor tries to use a court decision to prove that people in the Midwest are rolling out broad acceptance for gay marriage and gay lifestyles. I would argue that they are not.

It's hard to argue with the purely legalistic proposition that gays can obtain civil marriages. But to argue that a legalistic decision reflects public attitudes is pure Ivory Tower wishful thinking. An "F" for the professor. 



*****
You can borrow from the Devil
You can borrow from a friend
But the Devil will give you twenty
When your friend only got ten
- Ramblin Jack Elliot

 
 
fisconsoclib
(Login fisconsoclib)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 8:11 PM 

We have seen first hand how those who practice Polygamy fair far worse then families that follow the traditional fimily values. No, we will never allow the changing of the marriage laws to include polygamy. And that goes double for beastiality as well.

 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 8:22 PM 

We have seen first hand how those who practice Polygamy fair far worse then families that follow the traditional fimily values. No, we will never allow the changing of the marriage laws to include polygamy. And that goes double for beastiality as well.

   I have no arguement against animals, or children for that matter, but both examples miss the point.  What we are citing here is consenting adults.  And for gender to be a case of discrimination, while number is not, reveals a certain prejudice in it's own right.

gus.

 

 


 
 

j2
(Login j2saret)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 8:32 PM 

all I can say is: Brad better watch out or he's going to hafta marry Angelina. His excuse: "I won't marry until everyone is free to marry." is eroding fast.

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. - Carl Sagan

I believe that every right implies a responsibility, every opportunity an obligation; every possession, a duty. - John D. Rockefeller, Jr.

 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 8:50 PM 

all I can say is: Brad better watch out or he's going to hafta marry Angelina. His excuse: "I won't marry until everyone is free to marry." is eroding fast.

   Then Brad is your basic wastrel/tomcat dipshit with a fancy new, and very cool sounding excuse.  How unique, I'll give him credit.  He gets to make Liberal coolness political points for being a basic chickenshit.

gus.

 

 

 


 
 


(Login j2saret)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 8:54 PM 

twice in one night gus, I agree 100% I think brad is funny. But imagine this: Movie Stars, Sports Stars and others in the public spot light conduct themselves as mature and moral individuals. The economy would tank even worse. How many millions of dollars are generated by reporting on their antics?

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. - Carl Sagan

I believe that every right implies a responsibility, every opportunity an obligation; every possession, a duty. - John D. Rockefeller, Jr.

 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 3 2009, 9:00 PM 

Actually, the usual use of beastiality and polygamy to bolster their argument is not unusual for the hard right to resort to.  As if humans marrying pigs or gerbils was a problem that the state needed to deal with.  From my perspective, let multiple women marry one man, or vice versa... that activity, but itself, will result in it's own punishment.

If somebody wants to marry a pig?  Let PETA handle it.  happy.gif

Jim...


 
 

Moonie
(Login mooncat60)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 4 2009, 1:38 PM 

Same sex marriage will be protected everywhere in the US in a few years and people in gay partnerships will soon be able to have the same benefits as those in marriages between a man and a woman.  

I well remember when some people supported segregation. Feelings were emotional and often used the bible and tradition to continue their beliefs.  But bascially, it came down to equal protection too.

Good for Iowa.

 


 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 4 2009, 1:47 PM 

Same sex marriage will be protected everywhere in the US in a few years and people in gay partnerships will soon be able to have the same benefits as those in marriages between a man and a woman.  

   How about people in polygamous partnerships?  Will they have the same benefits too?

gus.

 


 
 

Janie
(Login pphhroggie)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 4 2009, 2:06 PM 


  Polygamists take hope in the visionaries of Iowa.

If people want to have more than one spouse....and ALL the people involved are of the same mind on the issue, what's the problem?  As long as you aren't FORCING anyone to marry you, gussie.....I could care less if you wish to have more than one wife.

 

 



Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
-Albert Einstein

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.



 
 


(Login roby2000)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 4 2009, 2:30 PM 

So monogamists have a right to descriminate against others who are different?  How quaint...

gus.

Poor pus, just doesn't get it and never will. 



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We are all equal, but we definitely are not the same"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 
 

Moonie
(Login mooncat60)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 4 2009, 3:20 PM 

How about people in polygamous partnerships?  Will they have the same benefits too?

Maybe all the spouses would just come in for an equal division of the benefits. Would that be a probelm? TIC  happy.gif 


 
 

cjgrill
(Login cjgrill)

equal protection

April 4 2009, 7:14 PM 

Excellent post moon. I too remember.

I well remember when some people supported segregation. Feelings were emotional and often used the bible and tradition to continue their beliefs.  But basically, it came down to equal protection too.

Good for Iowa.



*************************
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR__8jl7PM8

 
 


(Login moniker12)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 4 2009, 7:56 PM 

If somebody wants to marry a pig?  Let PETA handle it.

Yeah, let's give Bulphrog a rest. Send her to PETA.



*****
You can borrow from the Devil
You can borrow from a friend
But the Devil will give you twenty
When your friend only got ten
- Ramblin Jack Elliot

 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 4 2009, 8:06 PM 

If somebody wants to marry a pig?  Let PETA handle it.

Yeah, let's give Bulphrog a rest. Send her to PETA.

************************

What exactly does that comment have to do with the discussion at hand?

Jim..


 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 4 2009, 8:16 PM 

Furthermore, how does "gay rights", or "gay marriage", damage you, or threaten you, in even the smallest way?

Jim...


 
 

Maw
(Login mawsword)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 4 2009, 9:30 PM 

The irony of this whole post is it doesn't affect anyone here that I know of.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent
************************
Eleanor Roosevelt

 
 

roby2000
(Login roby2000)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 5 2009, 11:44 AM 

I wouldn't get married if it came to NY state.  Too much to lose.  So it doesn't affect me either way.  I do have some friends that will be helped by marriage though.  I have a family that doesn't need my money or property and we have the rights here in NY that all family members have and the only thing I would gain is that my partner would receive 50% of my SS which would double his monthly income.  So I guess I'll get married on my death bed.  LOL!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We are all equal, but we definitely are not the same"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 
 

Carolyn
(Login Carolyn826)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 5 2009, 12:14 PM 

Question for Roby or someone with legal knowledge: If you have a Will and an advanced directive, can you personally empower over to your partner those assets and decisions that would normally be allowed as a result of marriage?

 


 
 


(Premier Login AquarianPath)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 5 2009, 12:34 PM 

Okay, so is it bigotted to ban polygymous marraiges?

gus.

--------

No, I think those should be legalized as well. As long as all are willing and all are at the age of consent. I have no problem with polygymy



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Moon
(Login mooncat60)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 5 2009, 1:50 PM 

Carolyn: ...If you have a Will and an advanced directive, can you personally empower over to your partner those assets and decisions that would normally be allowed as a result of marriage?

Social Security benefits, either old age pension or disabilty for families are not covered though.  This would impact young gay relationships who have children or a relationship where one partner was the stay at home person. 

Wills can also be contested, which slows the whole process down and impedes what the person really wants to happen to their assets.  Even with a will, disagreements arise in hospitals, which normally do not immediately favor the gay partner.

This is why the system really does need to change.  Gay relationships are a fact of life and have been in every civilization and historical age.  Gays should be accepted for all their other attributes and not judged on their sexual orientation.   

 



    
This message has been edited by mooncat60 on Apr 5, 2009 1:53 PM


 
 

roby2000
(Login roby2000)

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 5 2009, 2:44 PM 

can you personally empower over to your partner those assets and decisions that would normally be allowed as a result of marriage?

A will can be contested.  I heard a long time ago about a "living trust" that is the same as the person still being alive that will distribute the estate according to the rules and just fold when they are all distibuted.  I'm really not sure of it because my family's attitude is to let us siblings do what we feel is right, so I never had to worry about such things.  In NY, I can sign a form giving my domestic partner the right to dictate what happens to me if I'm too ill to function mentally.  That's why I live in a place like NYC, they stay the hell out of your private life for the most part.



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(Premier Login susanklmr)
Admins

Re: The sun shines on equality in Iowa

April 5 2009, 5:03 PM 

We have seen first hand how those who practice Polygamy fair far worse then families that follow the traditional fimily values.

Define traditional family values....




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