There was, of course, rhetoric by the President leading up to this statement and rhetoric afterwards. But the statement he made is not acceptable to me:
"...Obama said the United States was partly to blame because "there have been times where America's shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive" toward Europe. But he said Europe had to accept responsibility and make changes too..."
He went on to say that America is changing.
Listen to me, Mr. President. The United States has nothing-- NOTHING-- at all to apologize to Europe for. I am embarrased by your statement and feel deeply disappointed that you would say this in Europe to European audiences. Furthermore, there is nothing we have to "change" regarding our dealings with NATO, the UN, Europe, and any of our many alliances.
This "arrogance" statement by the President resonates with his wife's statement during the election that, for the first time, she is "proud" of America. It resonates with statements by the excused terrorist Ayers, and several other issues we've heard about. I feel concerned tonight about this guy.
*****
You can borrow from the Devil
You can borrow from a friend
But the Devil will give you twenty
When your friend only got ten
- Ramblin Jack Elliot
ya shudda listened to the speech and q&a it wudda made you sick to your stomach, you would then have left the country. Should I post you a link to the audio?
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson
We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. - Carl Sagan
I believe that every right implies a responsibility, every opportunity an obligation; every possession, a duty. - John D. Rockefeller, Jr.
go ahead and be "embarassed" .. It is time somebody spoke truth to power, and decided to make things work rather than sabre rattle and threaten to turn the ME into a parking lot.
I'm proud of him for his ability to break through the assumption of exclusionary American superiority on every level. That's just being honest.
Time will tell if you or I are the fool. If you think that this sort of rhetoric is going to change minds or attitudes among European leaders and diplomats, I don't think I will be proved the fool.
Europeans are the ultimate masters in devious, hard-ball, sharp-knived diplomacy. So far, in public, Obama seems to be their patsy.
In this first visit to Europe as President, he should have just gone to listen, smile, and nod sagaciously.
I can't fault him for it. Just our voters. If they expected more from this man with zero experience in foreign diplomacy, then they, too, are the fools.
America has nothing to be ashamed about in our political and mililtary relationship with the Europeans. Everything you've heard from Europe the last eight years is vicious back-biting because we asked them to step up to the plate. THEY have failed miserably, not the United States or its leaders since Carter was kicked out of office. THEY are the ones who were compromised by their shady oil-for-food dealings with the socialist Ba'athist leaders of Iraq. THEY are the ones who quivered in the shadow of the Soviet Empire which WE defeated.
Get a grip on reality. Please. Go back to a real library and remind yourselves of the true reasons we are the undisputed leaders of the world.
Why do you give away so freely what so many Americans gave their lives for?
*****
You can borrow from the Devil
You can borrow from a friend
But the Devil will give you twenty
When your friend only got ten
- Ramblin Jack Elliot
Not to you perhaps, but I understand clearly. In our "arrogance" we have saved Europe three times now. In our "arrogance" we have fostered their economies since 1945. In our "arrogance" we have fostered the economies of Japan, Korea, and many other nations.
In our "arrogance" we have done more about international AIDS (thank you President Bush) than any other nation in the world. And the list of our "arrogance" goes on and on.
If it wasn't for American "arrogance" the France would be struggling to learn Russian and Polish men would be slaving in Siberian gulags.
In Obama's own arrogance, he has dissed our nation and our overwhelming record of benevolent actions in the world and it is truly disturbing.
*****
You can borrow from the Devil
You can borrow from a friend
But the Devil will give you twenty
When your friend only got ten
- Ramblin Jack Elliot
Sarcasm is difficult to project on a bulletin board. Geez, can you name any European nation as "arrogant" as the U.S.? I'd love to see them step up and take the title away from us.
Are you suggesting that FDR believed in, and exemplified, American superiority on every level?
Only the levels that counted at the time, somewhat critical I might add. God knows I don't trust Obama to have that much sense, even in the face of the degrees of obvious that FDR confronted.
"...The author, an American historian, emphasizes F.D.R.'s "profoundly solipsistic nationalism and sense of American superiority" and Kennan's "melancholy disaffection" with the United States and his gradual despairing of Europe's prospects for retaining its identity, free from American tutelage..."
"...And our overwhelming superiority of armament must be adequate to put weapons of war at the proper time into the hands of those men in the conquered Nations who stand ready to seize the first opportunity to revolt against their German and Japanese oppressors, and against the traitors in their own ranks, known by the already infamous name of "Quislings." And I think that it is a fair prophecy..."
And here's why we have to watch and speak out against Obama's passive actions overseas. We've been burned before by leaders who don't grasp the opportunities of our strength:
"...FDR failed to take political advantage of the enormous U.S. economic, military, and atomic superiority. In three key areas of the Grand Alliance dispute - the Second Front, Poland, and the division of Germany - FDR clearly colluded with Stalin against the larger vision of Churchill. By failing to use the Lend-Lease program as a bargaining chip, FDR "surrendered" Eastern Europe to Stalin even before Stalin had begun his long-planned Soviet expansion into the East. A passionate, optimistic, and popular leader, FDR nevertheless failed to see the long-range goals of Stalin. He maintained an idealistic vision of a postwar world presided over by a partnership of two emerging powers, the United States and the Soviet Union..."
*****
You can borrow from the Devil
You can borrow from a friend
But the Devil will give you twenty
When your friend only got ten
- Ramblin Jack Elliot
What did you expect...It's the leftist way! and the Obama way of stating that America should be more like Europe and partner with them...in their socialism. That's exactly what he was getting at...plain as day! The fact that the leftist here supports his America bashing on foreign soil during a time of war just proves it more.
The language of priorities is the religion of Socialism.....Aneurin Bevan
...here's a list of the countries that the USA gives monetary aid to (in order of how much money we give them). I don't see a single European country listed.
"...here's a list of the countries that the USA gives monetary aid to (in order of how much money we give them). I don't see a single European country listed."
Maybe this will help your eyesight...and this is only WWI
The First World War ended in 1918, nearly 9 years back. But though the war has ended, one aspect of this war that concerns the financial angle has never been explained or settled. Kaiser Wilhelm gave vent to German militarism and started the First World War. It ended with his defeat and the launch of treaty of Versailles (1919). This treaty imposed a large war debt on Germany. This period is important as it saw the rise of the United States as a global power. The war lasted 4 years and during the war the economies of the allies England, France and Italy got shattered and the countries were on the verge of bankruptcy. The United Sates as part of a duty loaned nearly seven thousand million dollars. This was given in the form of loans to be repaid later. The US gave these loans at that time to help the European on the condition that all loans were to be paid back. The United States therefore at the end of the war expected the European powers to pay back what they had borrowed. However the war had shattered the economies of the European powers. They thus could not repair the loans.
The United States then did something further to establish its credentials. Thus even when the war ended, the USA continued to give loans to the European powers. It lent a further 3 billion dollars to help revive their shattered economies. The loans, however, came with a rider and had the proviso that the allied nations use these loans to buy items like Military Equipment, food and other needs of the people back from the United States only. This acted as double bonus for the US economy. At the end of the war the United States desired that the loans given be repaid back. This issue attracted world wide publicity. A point to be noted is that the USA also extended credit to former enemies as well. All the debtor nations except Russia (where the Bolsheviks had come to power) recognized their obligations to repay the loans taken. The Soviet Government citing the Marxist adage of exploitation and Imperialism refused to honor its war debt.
But despite the wide spread acceptance that the loans need to be paid back, the fact remains that the European powers failed to pay back the loans to the United States at the end of the conflict.
To help tide over this crisis, the United States convened the World War Foreign Debt Commission in 1922. The United States by setting up this commission signaled to the world its desire to help out. The commission was to renegotiate a fresh schedule of payments with the European countries. After a laborious set of discussions and negotiations a 62-year period of repayment was worked out for both principal and interest. The commission accepted a debt of nearly $22 billion. The United States was not agreeable to any further reduction in the debt.Despite this, Europe got into further serious financial problems. And to help out, the United States did make some reductions in payments in 1925-26. However the payments continued only until 1931.These payments were made largely out of the reparations paid by Germany to the Allies as per the financial terms imposed by the treaty of Versailles (1919). In fact this treaty sowed the seeds for the Second World War.
A world wide economic depression during 1931 complicated the situation further. The situation was so bad that only Six European nations who had taken loans were able to make token payments to the United States in 1933. From 1934 all the debtors formally defaulted in their loan repayments except Hungary. Hungary continued payments till 1939 and Finland, continued to pay even after that date. The United Kingdom owed almost 850 million as war debt to the United States. Repayments of this debt were made regularly from 1923 to 1931. In 1931, President Hoover of the United States proposed a one-year moratorium on repayment of all World War debts. He made this proposal with a view to solve the debt problem through international discussion. However, no agreement could be reached. In the absence of any agreement, no payments have been made by most of the nations since 1934.
There is no denying the fact that the loans given to the European powers came back to the USA, as the European powers had to expend them on goods and supplies from the United States only. This in turn provided a tremendous fillip to and the American economy and industry.
At that time the Gold standard had been adopted and as such the European powers were required to pay back their obligations in gold only. But their economies were so badly shattered that they were unable to do so. Their currencies were on the verge of bankruptcy and Gold was needed as a reserve. The Harding administration made it clear to the European powers that the United States would not cancel any of the debts. There was wide spread public support for Harding on this issue. President Harding's death in August 1923 resulted in the passing of this international problem to his successor Coolidge. Coolidge tried to grapple with the problem but the non-repayment of the loans became a fait accompli and existed only on paper.
The UK also never repaid the loans. But the new government acknowledged that that the debt owed to the United States by the UK exists. It also accepted that the debt was not paid back since 1934. These loans were also never written-off. In addition, the war debt of other countries to the UK is also not paid or written-off. These days it is hardly remembered that the UK has unresolved war loans still pending. Though the war finished 90 years ago, the settlement of World War I loans by the UK has never been explained. And hence all World War I loans are now only part of the history.
