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Guns solve everything

April 4 2009 at 10:19 PM
  (Login Avalon99)

Yep, I suspect that the people in Pittsburgh are feeling really cool about more liberal laws regarding guns right now.

The idiots who think that guns solve anything are plainly dumb as a bag of hammers.

I would not restrict guns.  I'm going with Alexander Hamilton. 

Jim... 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090405/ap_on_re_us/pittsburgh_shooting_19

Gunman 'lying in wait' kills 3 Pittsburgh officers

By RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI and DAN NEPHIN, Associated Press Writers Ramit Plushnick-masti And Dan Nephin, Associated Press Writers 39 mins ago

PITTSBURGH A gunman wearing a bulletproof vest and "lying in wait" opened fire on officers responding to a domestic disturbance call Saturday, killing three of them and turning a quiet Pittsburgh street into a battlefield, police said.

Police Chief Nate Harper said the motive for the shooting isn't clear, but friends said the gunman recently had been upset about losing his job and feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

Richard Poplawski, 23, met officers at the doorway and shot two of them in the head immediately, Harper said. An officer who tried to help the two also was killed.

Poplawski, armed with an assault rifle and two other guns, then held police at bay for four hours as the fallen officers were left bleeding nearby, their colleagues unable to reach them, according to police and witnesses. More than 100 rounds were fired by the SWAT teams and Poplawski, Harper said.

The three slain officers were Eric Kelly, 41, Stephen Mayhle, 29, and Paul Sciullo III, 37. Kelly had been on the force for 14 years, Mayhle and Sciullo for two years each. Another officer, Timothy McManaway, was shot in the hand and a fifth broke his leg on a fence.

Poplawski had gunshot wounds in his legs but was otherwise unharmed because he was wearing a bulletproof vest, Harper said. He was charged with three counts of homicide, aggravated assault and a weapons violation.

The shooting occurred just two weeks after four police officers were fatally shot in Oakland, Calif., in the deadliest day for U.S. law enforcement since Sept. 11, 2001. The officers were the first Pittsburgh city officers to die in the line of duty in 18 years.

"This is a solemn day and it's a very sad day in the city of Pittsburgh," Harper said. "We've seen this kind of violence happen in California. We never would think this kind of violence would happen in the city of Pittsburgh."

At 7 a.m., Sciullo and Mayhle responded to a 911 call from Poplawski's mother, who remained holed up in the basement during the entire dispute and escaped unharmed, Harper said.

When they arrived at the home, Sciullo was immediately shot in the head. Mayhle, who was right behind him, was also shot in the head.

"It appears he was lying in wait for the officers," Harper said.

Kelly, who was on his way home after completing his overnight shift when he heard the call for help, rushed to the scene and was killed trying to help Sciullo and Mayhle, Harper said. SWAT teams and other officers arrived and were immediately fired on as well.

Don Sand, who lives across the street from Poplawski, said he was woken up by the sound of gunfire. Hunkering down behind a wall in his home, he saw the first two officers go down and then saw Kelly get shot.

"They couldn't get the scene secure enough to get to them. They were just lying there bleeding," Sand said. "By the time they secured the scene enough to get to them it was way too late."

Deputy Chief Paul Donaldson, who lives nearby, was one of the first officers to arrive. He saw Mayhle by a bush to the right of the door; Kelly was in the street and McManaway, his hand injured, was kneeling beside him, yelling that Kelly needed help.

Donaldson suggested using a police van to get them. They draped a bulletproof vest on the window to protect the driver and several officers got into the van to get Kelly and McManaway.

During this time, Poplawski was somehow distracted, Donaldson said.

"We were fortunate that he didn't fire on us. I don't know why he was distracted, but he apparently didn't see us coming down to get them," he said. "It could have been worse."

Poplawski had feared "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon," said Edward Perkovic, his best friend.

Perkovic, 22, said he got a call at work from him in which he said, "Eddie, I am going to die today. ... Tell your family I love them and I love you."

Perkovic said: "I heard gunshots and he hung up. ... He sounded like he was in pain, like he got shot."

Poplawski had once tried to join the Marines, but was kicked out of boot camp after throwing a food tray at a drill sergeant, Perkovic said.

Another longtime friend, Aaron Vire, said Poplawski feared that President Barack Obama was going to take away his rights, though he said he "wasn't violently against Obama."

Vire, 23, said Poplawski once had an Internet talk show but that it wasn't successful. He said Poplawski owned an AK-47 rifle and several powerful handguns, including a .357 Magnum.

Obama has said he respects Americans' constitutional right to bear arms, but that he favors "common sense" gun laws. Gun rights advocates interpret that as meaning he would approve some curbs on assault and concealed weapons.

Poplawski had been laid off from his job at a glass factory earlier this year, said another friend, Joe DiMarco. DiMarco said he didn't know the name of the company, but knew his friend had been upset about it.

The last Pittsburgh police officers killed in the line of duty were Officers Thomas L. Herron and Joseph J. Grill, according to a Web site that tracks police killings. They died after their patrol car collided with another vehicle while chasing a stolen car on March 6, 1991.

In 1995, an off-duty officer was shot with his own gun after he confronted a group of teenagers about graffiti. Tests later showed the officer had been drinking.

According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 133 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty in 2008, a 27 percent decrease from year before and the lowest annual total since 1960.

Poplawski had often fought with neighbors and had even gotten into fist fights with a couple, Sand said.

"This is a relatively really quiet neighborhood except for him," Sand said. "He was just one of those kids that we knew to stay clear from."

Harper confirmed police had responded to calls from the Poplawski house several times but said the incidents were still being investigated.

Rob Gift, 45, who lives a block away, said the well-kept single-family houses with manicured lawns are home to many police officers, firefighters, paramedics and other city workers.

"It's just a very quiet neighborhood," Gift said.


 
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(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 4 2009, 11:59 PM 

Yep, I suspect that the people in Pittsburgh are feeling really cool about more liberal laws regarding guns right now.

   Your operative word is "feeling".  Liberals have always *felt* that they held some kind of frigging patent on "feeling".  They market themselves as more "sensitive", and more "compassionate" than the rest of us.  It must be the quilts and candles(sarcasm).  With a single exception, I really don't give a quack.  They can sway together in assembled masses until their candle bill is astronomical for all I care.  The single exception is in policy that becomes law for the rest of us, as in *all* of us.  Because policy that becomes law that is motivated by *feeling* is doomed to failure.  It is bad policy, and bad law, and it is no way to govern.  *Especially* when limited to the singular issue of *gun* policy, and *gun* law.  How many examples would you like?

  So the people of Pittsburg should indeed be in mourning.  They and their government have experienced a tragedy.  And if a manifestation of that mourning is a bitterness toward guns, it's misplaced, and shallow, but it's utterly understandable.  Perhaps they should go deeper, and consider the culture that cultivates the attitudes in the minds of it's citzens that no longer respect authority, or hold human life in such low esteem.  That might prove more painfull indeed than the blameless, even *cool* rage against simple machinery.

gus.

 

 

 

 


 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 12:16 AM 

Perhaps they should go deeper, and consider the culture that cultivates the attitudes in the minds of it's citzens that no longer respect authority, or hold human life in such low esteem.  That might prove more painfull indeed than the blameless, even *cool* rage against simple machinery.

*********************************

My point exactly.  A culture that cultivates the idea that "violence promotes peace", is a culture that is indeed at odds with itself.  Glad to see that you agree.

Jim..


 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 12:39 AM 

Perhaps they should go deeper, and consider the culture that cultivates the attitudes in the minds of it's citzens that no longer respect authority, or hold human life in such low esteem.  That might prove more painfull indeed than the blameless, even *cool* rage against simple machinery.

*********************************

My point exactly.  A culture that cultivates the idea that "violence promotes peace", is a culture that is indeed at odds with itself.  Glad to see that you agree.

   I'm afraid you miss mine.  Understandable, however.  Moral relatavists have never understood that there *really* are good-guys, and bad-guys.

gus,

 [editied to add:]  Let me offer a bit of assistance.  Do you think the shooter in Pittsburg was seeking "peace"?  Do you think the cops who fell to his gun were seeking "violence"?

 

 



    
This message has been edited by gus-mccrea on Apr 5, 2009 12:43 AM


 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 12:45 AM 

  I'm afraid you miss mine.  Understandable, however.  Moral relatavists have never understood that there *really* are good-guys, and bad-guys.

****************************

How is what I said related to "moral relativism"?  And, if you are such a profound judge of "good and bad" why not just take the motherfucker out before he can kill anyone?  I'm sure you know ahead of time when somebody is inherently "bad", right?

Jim...


 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 12:48 AM 

How is what I said related to "moral relativism"?  And, if you are such a profound judge of "good and bad" why not just take the motherfucker out before he can kill anyone?  I'm sure you know ahead of time when somebody is inherently "bad", right?

   It's called a judicial system, ours is the best ever created,  and in the main, it works remarkably well.

gus.

 

 


 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 1:04 AM 

 It's called a judicial system, ours is the best ever created,  and in the main, it works remarkably well.

************************************

I'll agree with that.  But, it has not one thing to do with what you posted prior to this. 

Of course, this remarkable judicial system is not what you wanted to use for Gitmo prisoners, right?

Jim...


 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 10:13 AM 

It's called a judicial system, ours is the best ever created,  and in the main, it works remarkably well.

************************************

I'll agree with that.  But, it has not one thing to do with what you posted prior to this.

   Sure it does.  It is what provides structure to our dealings with the bad-guys, as opposed to my "hunch", or whatever nonsense you wrote.  I don't need a hunch, I have a written code to go by.  Fortunately, it was largely established before relatavism came into vogue. 

Of course, this remarkable judicial system is not what you wanted to use for Gitmo prisoners, right?

  Of course not.  It doesn't apply.  Let's not strike silly poses here.  The Left's righteous-indignation over Gitmo is *nothing* but a branch of it's BDS tree, as is the anti-war branch, and the "torture" branch, outraged posieurs notwithstanding.

gus.

 

 


 
 
skiptig4....Dan
(Login skiptig4)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 1:41 PM 

"Of course, this remarkable judicial system is not what you wanted to use for Gitmo prisoners, right?"


I would suppose the Obamaites would put them on probation and furnish them a half-way house and psychologist visits to steer them away from doing things like strapping bombs on their own children or on the mentally handicapped and having them blow buses and malls full of innocent people to giblets....that's all they need, is understanding and compassion!

The language of priorities is the religion of Socialism.....Aneurin Bevan

 
 

Moon
(Login mooncat60)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 2:02 PM 

So Poplawski killed those policemen because he feared Obama was going to take his guns away.  Now does that sound like a reasonable person to any of you? 

 
 

Carolyn
(Login Carolyn826)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 2:27 PM 

His conscience allowed him to end three lives.  Regardless of his reasons, of course he wasn't a reasonable person.  Lots of people are experiencing fear that government will impose new laws on gun sales, but they don't go around shooting people.

* * * * *

There used to be a time when buying ammunition at Bebers Shot and Sinker in Auburn was no problem there were rounds aplenty in stock.

There also was a time when the gun racks in the store on Ensley Avenue were stocked full with 100, maybe 125, firearms for sale.

Not anymore.

Now, co-owner Donald Beber said, the shop has about 25 or 30 guns for sale. People who used to walk in and trade or sell their firearms no longer come around for fear the government is about to take their guns away, according to Beber.

And ammunition? Forget about it.

A lot of ammunition we cant get anymore because its all bought up, Beber said. Ammunition being made is all sold out to the end of the year. Thats what some of the distributors are telling us.

A gun-buying frenzy that seemed to sweep the nation before President Obamas election has refused to die or even lose a hint of momentum. People who used to buy one box of ammunition at a time are getting five or six. People who never owned a gun or even thought about owning one are asking local law enforcement how to get a permit.

Its a phenomenon that shop owners like Beber have never seen. Many in the gun business say fear of a renewed ban on assault weapons; worries that a sin tax similar to one on tobacco could be placed on ammunition; and a poor economy are factors behind the increase in sales.

Whatever the reasons, its not just gun aficionados who are stocking up or hoarding ammo and firearms. The trend is crossing socioeconomic and gender lines, according to gun shop owners.

Friday nights, our parking lot used to be full of Chevy pickups, said Mark D. vanBurk, president of H&H Firearms Inc. in Fort Wayne. Now, well see Lexuses and Mercedes-Benzes. Everybody is coming in.

VanBurks shop touted on its Web site as Fort Waynes largest retail gun store sold 2,000 to 3,000 rounds of ammunition a week this time last year. Now, it sells 22,000 rounds a week, according to vanBurk.

Often, vanBurk said, he has to close when it becomes too crowded, with the stores limit of 60 people crammed inside. Hes had to hire extra security and, he said, business just keeps booming. He didnt think the sales record set in December would be broken, but it happened in January and again in February.

In fact, a new sales record is set at the 38-year-old business nearly every month. Through the first quarter of this year, the shop did more business than in all of 2008, according to vanBurk.

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20090405/LOCAL/304059928/1002/LOCAL

 



I will give your President more respect than you gave mine ...

 
 


(Premier Login susanklmr)
Admins

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 5:20 PM 

Do you think the shooter in Pittsburg was seeking "peace"?  Do you think the cops who fell to his gun were seeking "violence"?

Jim didn't comment on this little nugget.  I will asume he missed it. 




~~life isn't about how to survive the storm but how to dance in the rain~~

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb

 
 


(Premier Login susanklmr)
Admins

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 5:23 PM 


So Poplawski killed those policemen because he feared Obama was going to take his guns away.  Now does that sound like a reasonable person to any of you? 
He could have said he killed them because he ran out of peanut butter.  A mentally unstable person is mentally unstable no matter what manifestation he blames his violence on. 


~~life isn't about how to survive the storm but how to dance in the rain~~

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends.
Japanese Proverb

 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 6:40 PM 

Do you think the shooter in Pittsburg was seeking "peace"?  Do you think the cops who fell to his gun were seeking "violence"?

Jim didn't comment on this little nugget.  I will asume he missed it. 

**********************************

No, I didn't miss it.  It was an absurd question.  Not deserving of any time or attention.

Jim..

[note:  if you cannot figure out why, that is not my problem]

[otoh: if you really want to know, just ask]



    
This message has been edited by Avalon99 on Apr 5, 2009 6:55 PM


 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 7:45 PM 

His conscience allowed him to end three lives.  Regardless of his reasons, of course he wasn't a reasonable person.  Lots of people are experiencing fear that government will impose new laws on gun sales, but they don't go around shooting people.

 

Right-wing's false claims that Obama will take away guns has helped fuel the panic buying of firearms.

by Faiz Shakir
4/4/2009

In Pittsburgh today, a gunman wearing a bulletproof vest opened fire on police officers who were responding to a domestic disturbance call, killing three of them. Many bloggers have noted that the shooter, 23-year old Richard Poplawski, irrationally feared for "the Obama gun ban that's on the way" and "didn't like our rights being infringed upon." In a presciently-timed op-ed, Charles Blow warns of the disturbing escalating rhetoric of right-wingers like Chuck Norris, Michele Bachmann, Glenn Beck, and others:

Lately I've been consuming as much conservative media as possible (interspersed with shots of Pepto-Bismol) to get a better sense of the mind and mood of the right. My read: They're apocalyptic. They feel isolated, angry, betrayed and besieged. And some of their "leaders" seem to be trying to mold them into militias. 

At the same time, the unrelenting meme being pushed by the right that Obama will mount an assault on the Second Amendment has helped fuel the panic buying of firearms. According to the F.B.I., there have been 1.2 million more requests for background checks of potential gun buyers from November to February than there were in the same four months last year. That's 5.5 million requests altogether over that period; more than the number of people living in Bachmann's Minnesota.

Coincidence? Maybe. Just posturing? Hopefully. But it all gives me a really bad feeling. (Where?s that Pepto-Bismol?!)

John Cole wrote, "Sure, crazy people do crazy things. But that doesn?t make it responsible to encourage them, which is what a lot of really foolish people are doing right now for purely political reasons."

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/04/right-wing-guns-claim/

 

 

 

 






    
This message has been edited by pphhrogg on Apr 5, 2009 7:47 PM
This message has been edited by pphhrogg on Apr 5, 2009 7:46 PM


 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 9:22 PM 

Do you think the shooter in Pittsburg was seeking "peace"?  Do you think the cops who fell to his gun were seeking "violence"?

Jim didn't comment on this little nugget.  I will asume he missed it. 

**********************************

No, I didn't miss it.  It was an absurd question.  Not deserving of any time or attention.

  Translation:  Busted...  Anytime you resort to bumper-sticker assessments of cultures such as "violence promotes peace", you're an easy mark.

gus.

 

 


 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 9:25 PM 

Coincidence? Maybe. Just posturing? Hopefully. But it all gives me a really bad feeling. (Where?s that Pepto-Bismol?!)

   Good!  Because Shakir is as much a paranoid moron as the Pittsburg shooter was.  How ironic is that?

gus.

 


 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 10:04 PM 

No, I didn't miss it.  It was an absurd question.  Not deserving of any time or attention.

  Translation:  Busted...  Anytime you resort to bumper-sticker assessments of cultures such as "violence promotes peace", you're an easy mark.

***************************

Nope.  I'm not "busted"... at least not by the likes of you.  My opinion was not about that particular shooter.  Of course, you were not smart enough to figure that out.

It was (and is) not about one individual's actions.  You are the one using bumper stickers to take the place of real thought.

So, he was a mentally unstable fellow.  Who decided that shooting his way into oblivion was the best way out?  Where in the world would he have gotten that idea?

Jim..


 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 5 2009, 10:24 PM 

Nope.  I'm not "busted"... at least not by the likes of you.  My opinion was not about that particular shooter.  Of course, you were not smart enough to figure that out.

  That particular shooter was a classic example with which to exemplify the absurdity of your bumper-sticker.  The easy mark observation still stands.

gus.

 

 


 
 
sandeelady
(Login grand_sandee)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 6 2009, 7:39 AM 

Just once I would like to read a post from a strong gun proponent who also has a reasonable attitude about what will really help this situation wihich is becoming more of a horror story every day. 

 
 

Carolyn
(Login Carolyn826)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 6 2009, 8:13 AM 

People, and their respect for either other, is the solution.  There is no easy answer.

 



I will give your President more respect than you gave mine ...

 
 


(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 6 2009, 10:40 AM 

Just once I would like to read a post from a strong gun proponent who also has a reasonable attitude about what will really help this situation wihich is becoming more of a horror story every day. 

   Stop focusing on the hammer, and start addressing who's swinging it.  The logic is simple, once the Persuit of Coolness is removed from the process.  Millions of people in neighborhoods all over the nation own all kinds of guns, yet remain peacefully incident-free for decades.  Other neighborhoods rival Faluja, Iraq for danger, crime, and gunfire.  So what's the difference?  How can it be the guns?  The same guns, made by the same mfgs. are to be found in both examples!

   Gun-control is chickenshit politicians, and the activists who support them, looking for maximum electability with a minimum of thought, effort, and committment to the larger, and much more difficult issues.

gus.

 

 


 
 
sandeelady
(Login grand_sandee)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 6 2009, 11:53 AM 

Carolyn

Certainly there is no easy answer,  but try we must.  Laws and the strong enforcement of those laws has to be part of that process. Reasonableness on the part of those who have such strong feelings about guns is also important.

Gus,  the madness invades all  types of communities, we even read about its taking lives in a peaceful Amish community.

I am not fucusing on "the hammer" . The laws that need to be enforced are about people not objects.


 
 

Carolyn
(Login Carolyn826)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 6 2009, 7:24 PM 

At one time, the nation tried prohibition.  How did that work out?  Law abiding ownership and users are not the problem. 

 



I will give your President more respect than you gave mine ...

 
 

(Login gillis7)

culture of the baby daddy did it

April 8 2009, 7:49 AM 

no daddies in the home with the children......no sense of male reasoned response to "perceived" personal crises without over reaction

 
 

inka_d
(Login inka_d)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 8 2009, 8:45 AM 

Just once I would like to read a post from a strong gun proponent who also has a reasonable attitude about what will really help this situation wihich is becoming more of a horror story every day. 

------------

And, I would like to read posts from gun control proponents (with reasonable attitudes) about what they think will really help in this situation.




 
 

inka_d
(Login inka_d)

Re: Guns solve everything

April 8 2009, 8:50 AM 

The laws that need to be enforced are about people not objects.

-------------

MANY laws are already on the books about MANY issues.  And, many go unenforced.  Instead of just adding more laws, wouldn't it be better to actually enforce all of our laws on the books so we have at least have a benchmark from which new laws should be introduced, and possibly passed?




 
 
gillis7
(Login gillis7)

inka

April 8 2009, 9:04 AM 


Just once I would like to read a post from a strong gun proponent who also has a reasonable attitude about what will really help this situation which is becoming more of a horror story every day.


what will really help this situation?

end the culture of hit and run sperm donation


***********

culture of the baby daddy did it
April 8 2009, 7:49 AM

no daddies in the home with the children......no sense of male reasoned response to "perceived" personal crises without over reaction

 
 
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