The surveillance of foreign nationals calling in to the United States developed an alarm about the "Brooklyn Bridge." The mayor sent boats and men to protect the bridge and search for weak points. The mayor hired a firm to tell him how the BB could be destroyed.

They warned about a building under the bridge where cables were joined.

In one of his waterboarding sessions, KSM described the plot to sever the bridge cables with an acetylyne torch and subsequently, Iyman Faris was arrested and sentenced to 20 years in prison.

The bleeding heart liberals who would rather coddle terrorists than take firm action against our enemies have resisted and compromised surveillance and waterboarding.

I think their argument about waterboarding not producing "good intelligence" has been totally defeated by recent revelations.

Oh, and did you know that waterboarding was the hazing method at Virgina Military Institute?

*****
You can borrow from the Devil
You can borrow from a friend
But the Devil will give you twenty
When your friend only got ten
- Ramblin Jack Elliot

I think their argument about waterboarding not producing "good intelligence" has been totally defeated by recent revelations.

I think you're willing to believe anything that supports your position, I don't believe them.  I believe they've made it up in order to defend themselves.  You're convinced and so am I.

Oh, and did you know that waterboarding was the hazing method at Virgina Military Institute?

SO!!  Just because it was a hazing method at VMI or any place else doesn't change anything, Moniker.

Yeah, right. And after bringing down the Brooklyn bridge by cutting through the cables with an acetylene torch, he and a group of friends were going to knock down the Pentagon by standing alongside it and blowing real hard.

Does credibility count for nothing? This is right up there with making weapons grade uranium by swinging a bucket full of yellowcake over your head (another "plot" that was reported in all seriousness by the Bush administration.)

If you truly think that the argument about waterboarding not producing good intelligence has been totally defeated by recent revelations then it's only because you're willing to uncritically latch onto anything that supports that thesis.

And note that even when there's an occasional piece of actual good intelligence that comes from torture (and I've never claimed that doesn't happen) that does not change the fact that one gets a large volume of bad intel (like this Brooklyn Bridge bullshit, or the Padilla "dirty bomb" plot that didn't exist, etc.) that one then has to waste time checking out. Neither does it change the harm done to our standing as a nation - our moral authority in the world. Nor does it change the fact that the real professionals in interrogation say standard (non-torture) interrogation techniques are very effective, even with terrorists.

Ron and Jan, your major premise in arguing against waterboarding was that it did not produce good intelligence.

Recent revelations have proven that premise to be false.

Are you going to cling to it, in spite of the facts of the matter?

*****
You can borrow from the Devil
You can borrow from a friend
But the Devil will give you twenty
When your friend only got ten
- Ramblin Jack Elliot

Recent revelations have proven that premise to be false.

Are you going to cling to it, in spite of the facts of the matter?

I think "recent revelations" are steaming piles of shit that are made up to excuse the actions of the Bush administration and that if they had actually had good intelligence that had prevented real and realistic attacks that we would have heard of them before now.  I don't think "recent revelations" are the facts, as you call them, but lies made for people of your mindset. 

Ron and Jan, your major premise in arguing against waterboarding was that it did not produce good intelligence.

Recent revelations have proven that premise to be false.

*********************************

Nope.  Both recent and long standing revelations have proved your assertion to be false.

torture does not work..  I don't know why you keep asserting it.

Jim...

torture does not work..  I don't know why you keep asserting it.

  Oh, a few thousand years of human history to the contrary.  No biggie compared to eight years of BDS.

gus.

 

Recent revelations have proven that premise to be false.

I don't agree with this claim.

First, the "recent revelations" you rely on mostly amount to assertions made by the CIA to Bradbury to provide him with fodder for his bogus legal argument. If we had the IG Report, that might give us a better evaluation of efficacy. Unfortunately, that's still classified. But at least one part that Bradbury did quote for us suggests the case for efficacy is far weaker than you claim.

Second, contrary to your assertion, I never claimed, let alone relied on, waterboarding never producing any good intelligence. Rather, I relied on the statements of multiple experts in interrogation who say that one gets more reliable intelligence and far less bad intelligence by using traditional non-torture interrogation techniques. Not to mention that torture is simply morally wrong.

Oh, a few thousand years of human history to the contrary.

Oh yeah? Most of that history is extracting false confessions, not gaining good intelligence.

Oh yeah? Most of that history is extracting false confessions, not gaining good intelligence.

   Nah, I think they just enjoy it...

gus.

 

torture may not work, we don't know....but, the interrogation techniques WE used, and Water Boarding is one technique used, DOES work and there is evidence that it does...

So, good job libs, for once you got it right!