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Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009 at 12:33 PM

Jo  (Login JoFox)

To  listen to the White House and its supporters in and out of the media, you would think that opposition to Obamacare is the hobgoblin of a few small minds on the right. Racists, fascists, Neanderthals, the whole Star Wars cantina of boogeymen and cranks stand opposed to much-needed reform.

Left out of this fairly naked effort to demonize many with the actions of a few is the simple fact that Obamacare however defined has been tanking in the polls for weeks. President Obamas handling of health care is unpopular with a majority of Americans and a majority of self-proclaimed independents.

Focusing on the town halls has its merits, but if you actually want Obamacare to pass, casting a majority of Americans as the stooges of racist goons may not be the best way to go.

Imagine if George W. Bush, in his effort to partially privatize Social Security, had insisted that the time for talking is over. Picture, if you will, the Bush White House asking Americans to turn in their e-mails in the pursuit of fishy dissent. Conjure a scenario under which then-Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott derided critics as evil-mongers the way Harry Reid recently described town-hall protesters. Or if then-House Speaker Dennis Hastert and then-Majority Whip Tom DeLay had called critics un-American the way Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer did last week, or if White House strategist Karl Rove had been Sir Spam-a-lot instead of David Axelrod.

Now, Im not asking you, dear reader, to do this so that you might be able to see through the glare of Obamas halo2.gif or the outlines of the medias staggering double standard when it comes to covering this White House. Rather, it is to grasp that the Obama administration has been astoundingly incompetent.

Lashing out at the town-hall protesters, playing the race card, whining about angry white men, and whispering ominously about right-wing militias is almost always a sign of liberalisms weakness a failure of the imagination.

The Left, broadly speaking, has been attacking conservative talk radio and all it allegedly represents for the better part of 20 years now. When Bill Clinton needed a convenient villain, he attacked Rush Limbaugh. When Bush emerged victorious from the Florida recount, liberals concluded that what they really needed was their own version of Limbaugh. In March, at the first sign of resistance from congressional Republicans, Obama complained that the GOP was Limbaughs lap dog, and both the White House and much of the press corps went into anti-Limbaugh campaign mode.

Its funny how these supposed champions of the Enlightenment cant grasp that people can disagree with them for honest reasons. Instead, we simply must be Limbaughs automatons, which is to say racist, fascist thugs.

In addition to the slander, such complaints are monumentally, incandescently lame coming from a party that controls Washington. According to liberals themselves, these evil-mongers are a tiny minority, a bunch of Astroturf frauds. So why not ignore them and get on with the work you were elected to do?

Well, because they cant or wont.

One of the reasons the term Obamacare has become a journalistic convention is that there is no bill. You cant talk about Obamas actual health-care plan because there isnt one. There are a bunch of competing bills, proposals, and ideas swirling around the halls of Congress like flotsam in a sewer. As even Robert Reich, Clintons labor secretary, recently conceded, the failure to put forward a concrete proposal allows opponents to pick from a menu of scary ideas and possibilities, all of which can be labeled Obamacare.

Suspicion of bad motives is only reinforced by Obamas determination to steamroll to victory. Indeed, Democratic dudgeon that the town-hall protesters dont want civil debate is hysterical, given that Obama wanted this over before the August recess. No wonder the president who thought the time for talk was over long ago now doesnt like the talk hes getting.

Some might say the real story is to be found in the eroding support from independent voters and Blue Dog Democratic congressmen. Or in the panic among seniors that Obama will raid Medicare. Or in his inability to get progressive Democrats to agree to a bipartisan approach. Or maybe the real story is Obamas manifest inability to sell a program hes invested his presidency in.

But no. Obama wants the debate to be about angry white men. And, as lame as that is, thats whats happening. It wont make Obamacare a reality, but it will shift the blame from where it rightly belongs.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NmE0OGM4OTZkYWZhZDEwY2Y3ZWUxOGJmMGRmZWU5ZmI=



********************************************

"Coincidence is a God scheduled opportunity."
Scott Hamilton

"Better to do something imperfectly than to do nothing flawlessly." --Robert Schuller





 
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webpm
(Login webpm1)

Why 'Obamacare' is Failing....

August 19 2009, 12:50 PM 

and will continue to fail is due to the fact that Socialism has always failed and true Americans know this FACT.

No matter how is is masked, Americans do not want our healthcare system polluted further with left wing utopian ideas all rooted in Socialism.....

It does not work, never has, never will....

 
 

cj
(Login cjgrill)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 3:38 PM 

No matter how is is masked, Americans do not want our healthcare system polluted further with left wing utopian ideas all rooted in Socialism.....

That's right dammit! No matter how it is masked, call it Medicare call it Medicaid call it Social Security, call it s-chip, it's all rooted in Socialism and therefore the good and righteous Americans will reject it! The good and righteous Americans will have no part of it! The good and righteous Americans will never sign up for Social programs rooted so firmly and deeply in Socialism! Good and righteous Americans NEVER accept handouts from their government paid for with tax dollars that have been so unfairly assessed to their fellow citizens. Not for their elderly not for their children no matter the circumstance! Good and righteous Americans accept a government handout?  NEVER!

(sarcasm)



*************************
poetse; Those incapable of lerning never made it to the third dauy of class.

AJC; The students must have been relieved to get a replacement teacher on the third day.

 
 

Alice
(Login ScotsWitch)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 3:49 PM 

"That's right dammit! No matter how it is masked, call it Medicare call it Medicaid call it Social Security, call it s-chip, it's all rooted in Socialism and therefore the good and righteous Americans will reject it! The good and righteous Americans will have no part of it! The good and righteous Americans will never sign up for Social programs rooted so firmly and deeply in Socialism! Good and righteous Americans NEVER accept handouts from their government paid for with tax dollars that have been so unfairly assessed to their fellow citizens. Not for their elderly not for their children no matter the circumstance! Good and righteous Americans accept a government handout? NEVER!"

I simply request that the United States Government return the $20,000+ dollars it has taken from my paycheck over the last 40 or so years and return it to me. I paid the money in to Social Security and Medicare and I want to get it back ... if by doing that I have to sign up for Social Security payments and Medicare, then I will do so. Is that "asking" for too much?

Take care.
Blessed Be.
Alice

"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed frequently and for the same reason." From the movie, "Man of the Year"

 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 4:16 PM 

Americans do not want our healthcare system polluted further with left wing utopian ideas all rooted in Socialism.....

Of course that is NOT what's being proposed in the health care reform bills.

Oh, and the bills aren't dead either.  The Blue Dogs will get in line with the other Democrats because they KNOW that if they don't, their own bills will simply be ignored.

MOST Americans want health care reform passed THIS year, too.....

http://www.gallup.com/poll/121664/majority-favors-healthcare-reform-this-year.aspx

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=5535866&page=1

http://blogs.phillyburbs.com/news/bcct/cbs-poll-americans-want-health-care-reformrelief-now/

 





 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 4:17 PM 

I simply request that the United States Government return the $20,000+ dollars it has taken from my paycheck over the last 40 or so years and return it to me.

Good luck with that "request".





 
 

cj
(Login cjgrill)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 4:18 PM 

I simply request that the United States Government return the $20,000+ dollars it has taken from my paycheck over the last 40 or so years and return it to me. I paid the money in to Social Security and Medicare and I want to get it back ... if by doing that I have to sign up for Social Security payments and Medicare, then I will do so. Is that "asking" for too much?

Actually I believe they should give every American the option at the age of 62 or 65, of health care or the amount they paid into social security. For some, 20 thousand plus for others the amount would be zero. I would make each person who opts for the return of their money, sign a paper refusing all government provided health care (Medicare & Medicaid included) in the future and witnessed by a minimum of three lawyers representing that person. A one time option with absolutely no opting back into the government offered health care. (Medicare & Medicaid)


 
 

(Login evelyn-glover)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 5:50 PM 

"Actually I believe they should give every American the option at the age of 62 or 65, of health care or the amount they paid into social security. For some, 20 thousand plus for others the amount would be zero. I would make each person who opts for the return of their money, sign a paper refusing all government provided health care (Medicare & Medicaid included) in the future and witnessed by a minimum of three lawyers representing that person. A one time option with absolutely no opting back into the government offered health care. (Medicare & Medicaid."







Well that's mighty nice of you CJ. How about," plus interest". And how about the ones who have died before they had the chance to receive one thin dime of their money. Got answeres for that too? hummmmmmmmmmm



 
 
AJC
(Login ajc122)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 6:42 PM 

Some opposing healthcare reform have done a very good job of distorting and misleading the public about what is being proposed.

Unfortunately healthcare is extremely important to most indivduals and changes in the system are going to make many uneasy.

There really are valid issues of concern. Many don't like the idea of a public option - some are individuals who oppose any government involvment and would oppose it no matter who proposed it. The cost is another issue - what is it going to cost additional and how will it be paid for. Also savings from trying to make medicare more efficient are earmarked to help pay for the healthcare reform and those on medicare are concerned it will result in cuts in medicare.

So of course there are legitimate questions. The crap about forcing people to give up their current coverage and "death panels" is being used by extremists to keep valid issues from being debated.

Why? One guess might be if they can keep the pot stirred up and people so upset even those who want reform will give up. It's what some do when they can't debate the valid issues.

 
 

(Login evelyn-glover)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 7:00 PM 

"So of course there are legitimate questions. The crap about forcing people to give up their current coverage and "death panels" is being used by extremists to keep valid issues from being debated.

Why? One guess might be if they can keep the pot stirred up and people so upset even those who want reform will give up. It's what some do when they can't debate the valid issues." AJC




I believe they get these ideas from what has gone on in other countries with nationalized healthe care AJC. And don't forget about the quality of life going down also, 16% in UK. Canada's health care system is about to collaspe according to a report written up by one of their Dr.'s in that country. Check Boortz website for it.

 
 

Carolyn
(Login Carolyn826)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 7:53 PM 

Medicare is a government funded program.  It is not a government managed program ... at least not to the consumer.  You do not deal with a government employee to obtain approvals for tests and procedures. 

My DIL, married to an active-duty military member, does have to deal with government managed health care and their contracted "managers".  She is a not a fan.  Not one bit.



 



    
This message has been edited by Carolyn826 on Aug 19, 2009 7:56 PM


 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

education for evelyn.....

August 19 2009, 8:02 PM 

Britain's Health System Defended

August 17, 2009
By Scott Hensley

The National Health Service in the U.K. has become a punching bag for some critics of proposals to remake the U.S. health-care system.
Among the inflammatory charges, Sen. Edward Kennedy wouldn't have received state-of-the-art care for his brain tumor in a place like Great Britain because health overseers would have found extending the life of the 77-year-old unworthy of the expense.
"Well, I'm sorry to say that's the most ludicrous thing that I've heard," Ara Darzi, a surgeon and former minister of health, tells Steve Inskeep on Tuesday's Morning Edition. It's an example, Darzi says, of the "lies that have been used to set fear against reform."

Darzi also co-wrote a Washington Post op-ed to set matters straight. Here are a few things he thinks Americans should know:

All Britons are registered with primary care doctors who see them without charging patients a fee. The docs are independent contractors compensated in part for the quality of care they provide, so "they can focus on what works not what pays."

Patients can choose their providers of health care and, starting next spring, the NHS will be the first health system in the world to publish quality measures for every department in every hospital.

To critics of change, the U.K. embodies concerns that a faceless bureaucrat will make life and death decisions restricting care. Darzi turns that right around.

"Americans fear that countries such as Britain and Canada ration care -- and that such rationing could and should never be tolerated in the United States," the Post editorial says. "Yet 47 million uninsured is quite an extreme form of rationing. So at this moment, the burden of proof falls upon those who oppose change -- for they stand in defense of fear.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2009/08/britains_health_service_defend.html





 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

MORE education for evelyn.....

August 19 2009, 8:05 PM 

Debunking Canadian health care myths

By Rhonda Hackett
06/07/2009 

What do we pay for, anyway?As a Canadian living in the United States for the past 17 years, I am frequently asked by Americans and Canadians alike to declare one health care system as the better one.

Often I'll avoid answering, regardless of the questioner's nationality. To choose one or the other system usually translates into a heated discussion of each one's merits, pitfalls, and an intense recitation of commonly cited statistical comparisons of the two systems.

Because if the only way we compared the two systems was with statistics, there is a clear victor. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to dispute the fact that Canada spends less money on health care to get better outcomes.

Yet, the debate rages on. Indeed, it has reached a fever pitch since President Barack Obama took office, with Americans either dreading or hoping for the dawn of a single-payer health care system.

Opponents of such a system cite Canada as the best example of what not to do, while proponents laud that very same Canadian system as the answer to all of America's health care problems. Frankly, both sides often get things wrong when trotting out Canada to further their respective arguments.

As America comes to grips with the reality that changes are desperately needed within its health care infrastructure, it might prove useful to first debunk some myths about the Canadian system.

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada's taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash.

At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead. Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to decide who gets care and who doesn't when everybody is covered.

Myth: The Canadian system is significantly more expensive than that of the U.S.

Ten percent of Canada's GDP is spent on health care for 100 percent of the population. The U.S. spends 17 percent of its GDP but 15 percent of its population has no coverage whatsoever and millions of others have inadequate coverage. In essence, the U.S. system is considerably more expensive than Canada's.

Part of the reason for this is uninsured and underinsured people in the U.S. still get sick and eventually seek care. People who cannot afford care wait until advanced stages of an illness to see a doctor and then do so through emergency rooms, which cost considerably more than primary care services.

What the American taxpayer may not realize is that such care costs about $45 billion per year, and someone has to pay it. This is why insurance premiums increase every year for insured patients while co-pays and deductibles also rise rapidly.

Myth: Canada's government decides who gets health care and when they get it.

While HMOs and other private medical insurers in the U.S. do indeed make such decisions, the only people in Canada to do so are physicians. In Canada, the government has absolutely no say in who gets care or how they get it. Medical decisions are left entirely up to doctors, as they should be.

There are no requirements for pre-authorization whatsoever. If your family doctor says you need an MRI, you get one. In the U.S., if an insurance administrator says you are not getting an MRI, you don't get one no matter what your doctor thinks ? unless, of course, you have the money to cover the cost.

Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.

There are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada. There are reasonable waits for most specialists' care, and much longer waits for elective surgery. Yes, there are those instances where a patient can wait up to a month for radiation therapy for breast cancer or prostate cancer, for example. However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists. Despite such waits, however, it is noteworthy that Canada boasts lower incident and mortality rates than the U.S. for all cancers combined, according to the U.S. Cancer Statistics Working Group and the Canadian Cancer Society. Moreover, fewer Canadians (11.3 percent) than Americans (14.4 percent) admit unmet health care needs.

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.

Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is.

Myth: Canada is a socialized health care system in which the government runs hospitals and where doctors work for the government.

Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt says single-payer systems are not "socialized medicine" but "social insurance" systems because doctors work in the private sector while their pay comes from a public source. Most physicians in Canada are self-employed. They are not employees of the government nor are they accountable to the government. Doctors are accountable to their patients only. More than 90 percent of physicians in Canada are paid on a fee-for-service basis. Claims are submitted to a single provincial health care plan for reimbursement, whereas in the U.S., claims are submitted to a multitude of insurance providers. Moreover, Canadian hospitals are controlled by private boards and/or regional health authorities rather than being part of or run by the government.

Myth: There aren't enough doctors in Canada.

From a purely statistical standpoint, there are enough physicians in Canada to meet the health care needs of its people. But most doctors practice in large urban areas, leaving rural areas with bona fide shortages. This situation is no different than that being experienced in the U.S. Simply training and employing more doctors is not likely to have any significant impact on this specific problem. Whatever issues there are with having an adequate number of doctors in any one geographical area, they have nothing to do with the single-payer system.

And these are just some of the myths about the Canadian health care system. While emulating the Canadian system will likely not fix U.S. health care, it probably isn't the big bad "socialist" bogeyman it has been made out to be.

It is not a perfect system, but it has its merits.

For people like my 55-year-old Aunt Betty, who has been waiting for 14 months for knee-replacement surgery due to a long history of arthritis, it is the superior system. Her $35,000-plus surgery is finally scheduled for next month.

She has been in pain, and her quality of life has been compromised. However, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Aunt Betty ? who lives on a fixed income and could never afford private health insurance, much less the cost of the surgery and requisite follow-up care ? will soon sport a new, high-tech knee.

Waiting 14 months for the procedure is easy when the alternative is living in pain for the rest of your life.


More on how much the Canadians love their healthcare system here.....

http://www.blogowogo.com/blog_article.php?aid=2158316&t=11





 
 

cj
(Login cjgrill)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 10:40 PM 

Well that's mighty nice of you CJ. How about," plus interest".

No... the people get only what they put in. Call it your "government savings acct." or whatever else you want. I am not in favor of them collecting interest. If they or one of their children become disabled before they retire they will get plenty of cash. Also, the interest will be needed to pay for those people who never pay into the system but benefit from it. (for example, stay at home dads and stay at home moms)

And how about the ones who have died before they had the chance to receive one thin dime of their money. Got answeres for that too? hummmmmmmmmmm

The children of those who die before they collect SS will receive more than what that person has paid into social security.  They get a monthly check while in school and more money if they continue their education.



*************************
poetse; Those incapable of lerning never made it to the third dauy of class.

AJC; The students must have been relieved to get a replacement teacher on the third day.

 
 

Moniker
(Login moniker12)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 10:43 PM 

"...No... the people get only what they put in. Call it your "government savings acct." or whatever else you want. I am not in favor of them collecting interest. If they or one of their children become disabled before they retire they will get plenty of cash. Also, the interest will be needed to pay for those people who never pay into the system but benefit from it. (for example, stay at home dads and stay at home moms)..."

I think that, perhaps, we ought to save that topic for another day. It's getting late and there is so much CJ needs to learn before we can have a reasonable discussion about this.

happy.gif



*****
To no one will we sell, to no one will we refuse or delay, right or justice.
-- Magna Carta

 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 19 2009, 10:45 PM 

"...No... the people get only what they put in. Call it your "government savings acct." or whatever else you want. I am not in favor of them collecting interest. If they or one of their children become disabled before they retire they will get plenty of cash. Also, the interest will be needed to pay for those people who never pay into the system but benefit from it. (for example, stay at home dads and stay at home moms)..."

I think that, perhaps, we ought to save that topic for another day. It's getting late and there is so much CJ needs to learn before we can have a reasonable discussion about this.

**********************************

What is it that CJ needs to learn?  Do you suggest that she/he knows less than you?

Jim...


 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

INCORRECT, carolyn.

August 20 2009, 6:17 PM 


 
 

Carolyn
(Login Carolyn826)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 20 2009, 6:21 PM 

Janie: Are you on Medicare? 

When was the last time you had to consult with a government paid employee before you were given approval for your planned procedure/insurance filing?

 




 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

I already answered you.....

August 20 2009, 6:38 PM 

....in the other thread.  One does not have to "consult" with anyone about which treatments are covered (since ALL of them are)....but that doesn't mean that Medicare is not managed by the federal government.  Did you even bother to open ANY of the links I left that contain my PROOF that Medicare IS managed by the federal government?




    
This message has been edited by pphhrogg on Aug 20, 2009 6:39 PM


 
 

Carolyn
(Login Carolyn826)

Re: Why ‘Obamacare’ Is Failing

August 20 2009, 7:18 PM 

You didn't answer the questions.




 
 
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