and make some clarifications and changes ...

The White House tonight is providing the below clarification on what the president's health-care proposals would mean when it comes to the issue of illegal immigrants.

The question, as we all know, arises from the Wilson "You lie" outburst, and the core claim that notwithstanding specific bill language barring illegal immigrants from participating in the "exchange," as a practical matter, there is no way of verifying the citizenship of applicants -- which is the current state of play. Republicans say that then means illegal immigrants would end up being enrolled in plans -- bill language or no bill language.

Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange.

Here, the administration also concedes that hospitals would be compensated with public funds for the care of undocumented immigrants.

The bullet points sent tonight by the White House:

• Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate.
• Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.
• Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.
• There would be no change in the law that requires emergency rooms to treat people who need emergency care, including undocumented immigrants. There is already a federal grant program that compensates states for emergency room costs associated with treatment of undocumented immigrants, a provision sponsored by a Republican lawmaker.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx

Okay, so they quietly and without fanfare 'changed' the 47M uninsured to 30M.  That 17M difference has been cussed and discussed for months, people calling attention to the number of illegals in the 47M figure.  Obama used the 47M in August.  What caused him to drop the number to 30M? 

Also, what about false IDs being used since there is that problem already?  Fake citizenship won't likely show up in their illegal database, right?  And, if they're already treated and will still be treated under the new plan, exactly what has 'changed' other than dropping the 17M illegals from the number of unisured?

If there are now 17M LESS uninsured, are they going to revise the total health insurance plan cost figures to reflect that 'change'?  Or, since we're still going to cover the illegals anyway, do the figures stay the same?

 

It seems to me that this is really bad policy.

It's certainly right that illegal immigrants should not receive any subsidies to buying insurance and that provision was already there in the various versions of the bill (which, as I understand it, was what the President was alluding to in his speech.)

But what possible advantage can there be in making it harder for people, even if they are not here legally, to buy insurance with their own money? Making that harder or more expensive just means that they'll rely more on emergency room care which winds up costing all of us more.

So congrats, Republicans. You've managed to use your outrage to bully the administration into making healthcare more expensive for everybody.

So congrats, Republicans. You've managed to use your outrage to bully the administration into making healthcare more expensive for everybody.

That's really lame, Jan.  Nobody made them do anything.  They simply should not have tried to put a spin on something they knew wasn't true.

 

 

It was true in the only way that mattered - illegal aliens were barred from receiving any subsidies in all versions of the bill as far as I'm aware.

Now we're apparently going to do something more, something that's just bad policy - shove more people into the more expensive emergency room track costing all of us more money. All to satisfy Republican outrage, regardless of what actually makes sense.

They were already going there.  They'll continue to go there.  Nothing has changed.

 

They were already going there. They'll continue to go there. Nothing has changed.

Which is one of the myriad reasons why healthcare is so much more expensive in this country than anywhere else. God forbid we should try to save money, if that means that somebody here illegally has the privilege of spending their own money to get insurance. Can't have that!

They can spend their own money now to get insurance.  They're just can't buy it from the government.  I am 100% in favor of everyone having insurance.  If more people are making "deposits," those making "withdrawals" are not as big a drain, and we would have more dollar cost averaging.  But the government does not have to be the seller.

 

You know...I was in favor of instead of pissing all those billions away on the unions and the government takeover of the American Auto industry and all the pork filled horseshit of the Spendulus Bill was to give the money back to the TAX PAYERS! Give us six months of no federal income taxes and no SS taxes and let us put the money back into the economy...or buy more insurance IF we so desired it! That would never happen would it...because the NON TAX PAYERS would not be given tax payer's money would they!

The issue with the 46 million or 50 million or ten million that do not have insurance is in it's very nature a fraud on the American people. How many people do not own an automobile...how many do not own a tv or a cell phone or a hair dryer? Don't know do you...do you care? Health care isn't like a car is it....no car you walk or take a bus or a cab or a friend or you hitch-hike but you cannot go to the dealership and just "get" a car can you! If you don't have insurance or even if you don't have a dime and you get sick or injured you can go to a hospital and be treated can't you. Getting back to the cell phone and cable tv and cars and $150 sneakers and hair processes and on and on and on...they are choices made by people as to what they decide to spend their money on and if they decide not to buy health insurance and buy a new car instead...that's their choice isn't it! This is today still the United States of America and we have the right to chose to live our lives and make the choices that we decide to make...you may say health insurance is more important than a new car or a new I-Phone or a new motorcycle and if that's the case then you buy you some health insurance and let those that choose to buy what they have decided is more important instead of health insurance buy what they decide to buy!

Why doesn't the federal government if they are so concerned about who has and who does not have health insurance allow a "Insurance Rebate" on income tax returns? Never happen...the taxpayers isn't who this scam is aimed at...it's the non-tax payers...the ones being pandered to and the ones that have been kept on the Democrat's plantation for decades with promise after promise and program after program of socialist based pandering for votes! That's who the Democrats are hoping to hook-up and thus tie tighter to the party with this scam for generations to come...thus keeping the people under their yoke of party loyalty through the playing on their ignorance.

The language of priorities is the religion of Socialism.....Aneurin Bevan

So congrats, Republicans. You've managed to use your outrage to bully the administration into making healthcare more expensive for everybody.

OMG!  Jan unless you started posting with us when you were like TEN...I sure thought you were older than that.  Come ON.  Are you kidding? 

~~life isn't about how to survive the storm but how to dance in the rain~~

OMG! Jan unless you started posting with us when you were like TEN...I sure thought you were older than that. Come ON. Are you kidding?

Ummm ... you're the one posting in juvenile vernacular like "OMG!" I'm 49, by the way.

So do you have anything to say about the substance of my post? Is there some reason why it would make economic sense to make it more difficult for illegal aliens to buy insurance with their own money?

Now we're apparently going to do something more, something that's just bad policy - shove more people into the more expensive emergency room track costing all of us more money. All to satisfy Republican outrage, regardless of what actually makes sense.


So, Jan are you telling us it would cost less if illegals were incoudfed in Obamacare? How have you reached that conclusion?

=====================================
Liberals feel--Conservatives think.

So, Jan are you telling us it would cost less if illegals were incoudfed in Obamacare? How have you reached that conclusion?

If illegal aliens buy insurance with their own money, then certainly that would cost us less than if they are uninsured and use the emergency room, which is the most expensive form of care and which all of us would wind up paying for. That's just common sense, Poetse.

The White House tonight is providing the below clarification on what the president's health-care proposals would mean when it comes to the issue of illegal immigrants.

Good. Obviously they need to make the language SIMPLER in order to be understood. By some, anyway. Sheesh.