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The Picture.

September 14 2009 at 2:43 PM

gus.  (Login gus-mccrea)

  With regards to the pic I posted of the 9/12 protest in DC.  I think Jan's finding the identical pic of another event, pretty much illustrated *my* error.  SondraK at her blog offered no attribution, it was an *assumption* on my part and no one else's.  So I wanted to let it be for a day or two, until more data could be publicized.

  Estimates of the crowd now range from 1.2 million, to 2 million.  Michelle Malkin has posted pics and links by the score on her web site.  If you are too -batty to go there, fine, then don't.  But I'm not motivated enough to C&P the whole deal.

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/12/celebrating-the-912-rallies/

gus.

 

 


 
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Carolyn
(Login Carolyn826)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 7:49 PM 

Let them remain in denial.  If a health care bill is signed into law that increases the deficit and other spending is not brought into control, they'll find just how many people are opposed the next time we all go to the ballot box.

 




 
 
sandeelady
(Login grand_sandee)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 7:59 PM 

but you were batty enough to post a fake pic

just kidding

At least you admitted to being wrong



Children are not poltical pawns.

 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 8:38 PM 

Speaking At 9/12 Rally, FreedomWorks Lies, Inflates Attendance By Over 2,000 Percent

Last Saturday, FreedomWorks, a corporate-funded right-wing advocacy group headed by former Republican Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX), hosted an anti-Obama rally in Washington DC. The event was attended and paid for by various conservative organizations, from Parental Rights associations, to birthers, to the Rural Landowners, a militant faction that has referenced Waco and Ruby Ridge to call for violence against the government.

Standing proudly on-stage during the rally, FreedomWorks leader Matt Kibbe proclaimed that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance. However, ABC News quickly called Kibbe out for his lies:

At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as tens of thousands.

Kibbe also lied and said that the crowd stretched back to the Lincoln Memorial, even though the crowd barely got past 3rd Street (the Lincoln Memorial is at 23 Street). Kibbes lies were echoed by much of the right-wing community. Michelle Malkin dutifully enlarged the number of attendees even more, claiming 2,000,000 people were there. As Nate Silver has noted, Thats not a twofold or threefold exaggeation its roughly a thirtyfold exaggeration. Conservatives on twitter distributed a fake picture of the rally showing the entire mall filled with people:

Fakerally

The problem? The picture is over ten years old, from another rally.

Update Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC), who now competes with Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) as the most popular South Carolina politician of the tea party crowd, took to the stage to endorse Kibbe's celebratory attitude. Even though polls are now showing public opinion swinging towards increased public approval for the President's health reforms, DeMint proclaimed victory in defeating health reform. As Politico reported, DeMint announced to the crowd, "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Waterloo!" ThinkProgress recorded DeMint's statements at the rally. Watch it:

http://www.youtube.com/v/aiUTmHMblZo&hl=en&fs=1& width=461 height=280 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true">
Update Here is video of Kibbe's bogus claim that the crowd stretches to the Lincoln Memorial. Watch it:

http://www.youtube.com/v/64AZ3-uSCec&hl=en&fs=1& width=461 height=280 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true">
 
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/14/912-freedomworks-lie/




 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 8:42 PM 

ABC News Was Misquoted on Crowd Size

ABC News Reported D.C. Rally Size in Tens of Thousands, Not 1M to 1.5M as Activist Said.

Sept. 13, 2009   Conservative activists, who organized a march on the U.S. Capitol today in protest of the Obama administration's health care agenda and government spending, erroneously attributed reports on the size of the crowds to ABC News.   Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, the group that organized the event, said on stage at the rally Saturday that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance.   At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as "tens of thousands."
 
As a result of Kibbe's erroneous attribution, several bloggers and commenters repeated the misinformation. In his blog, Kibbe apologized Sunday for the mistaken attribution of the crowd-size estimated to ABC News.   "With a dead IPhone, I had been shown tweets from a number of different folks behind the stage citing the ABC estimate," he wrote. "They didn't say it. I regret misrepresenting the network, as their coverage that day was fair and honest."   http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055



 
 

gus.
(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 8:58 PM 

Let them remain in denial.  If a health care bill is signed into law that increases the deficit and other spending is not brought into control, they'll find just how many people are opposed the next time we all go to the ballot box.

   That's one of the beauties of it.  There are enough congresscritters in *both* parties that aren't hooked on kool-aid that can *see* what is happening.  They aren't relying on the silly moonbats to tell them it's all an illusion.  Enough of them to have an impact *now* on the Obama agenda, which is also making the silly moonbats gnaw their ankles.

gus.

 

 


 
 
Jim
(Login Avalon99)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:11 PM 

  That's one of the beauties of it.  There are enough congresscritters in *both* parties that aren't hooked on kool-aid that can *see* what is happening.  They aren't relying on the silly moonbats to tell them it's all an illusion.  Enough of them to have an impact *now* on the Obama agenda, which is also making the silly moonbats gnaw their ankles.

*********************************

What I can't get is that you tout this picture (the "original") as how popular the protest is, and it spreads across the blogosphere like wildfire... WITHOUT ANY GODDAMN FACT CHECKING!.

And when it all turns out to be fricken' pack of lies, you still want to make it a "win". 
That is flippin' bizarre.

In reality, what this is, is probably a picture of is the "Promise Keepers" rally in 1997 (or thereabouts).. which would also support your side of the argument.

But, you had to lie about it... and thought you could sneak it past everyone.

Christ you're dumb.

Jim...


 
 


(Login indisgeyes)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:15 PM 

 There are enough congresscritters in *both* parties that aren't hooked on kool-aid that can *see* what is happening.

So what are they hooked on, gus, it wouldn't be the wicked brew served up by the lobbyists would it?


 
 


(Login jrooth)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:31 PM 

Estimates of the crowd now range from 1.2 million, to 2 million.

LOL!! Michelle Malkin - expert crowd estimator.

Thanks, but I'll believe the official estimate made by city public safety officials - between 50,000 and 70,000. Sorry, but Tabitha Hale's tweeting notwithstanding, Parks & Rec categorically did not estimate the crowd at 1.2 million. Not even remotely close.


[linked image]

 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:37 PM 

These fuckheads have no connection to ethics or morality.  They lie with impunity, and are smug with it.

Jim...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/sep/14/tea-party-photo-shows-large-crowd-different-event/

"Tea party" photo shows huge crowd at different event

By Catharine Richert
Published on Monday, September 14th, 2009 at 11:34 a.m.

In the competitive world of Washington protests, crowd size is often a matter of dispute. Organizers usually boast of huge crowds, while police and the news media offer much smaller estimates.

So supporters of Saturdays tea party protests against President Barack Obama were quick to highlight their big turnout. To bolster countless claims on blogs and Facebook, many posted a photograph that showed a gargantuan crowd sprawling from Capitol Hill down the National Mall to the Washington Monument.

But it turns out the photo is more than 10 years old, apparently taken during a 1997 Promise Keepers rally.

On Saturday, estimates about the crowd spread quickly through the conservative blogosphere. Many writers, including author Michelle Malkin, pegged the number of people between 1 million and 2 million. Those reports were largely based on information from people in the crowd.

Malkin, for example, updated her blog at 12:34 p.m. noting that, Police estimate 1.2 million in attendance. ABC News reporting crowd at 2 million, and she cited a Twitter post from Tabitha Hale, writer of Pink Elephant Pundit, who was in Washington for the protest.

Many bloggers said the media was unfairly reporting much smaller numbers, and many included the photo.

I have no doubt that Washington Democrats are well aware of how many people turned out, even as their media outlets try to downplay the event, said Power Line, a conservative blog that linked to the photograph from Say Anything, another conservative Web site.

'Media estimates range from 60,000 to 500,000 to around 2 million (yes, 2,000,000), wrote John G. Winder for the conservative blog Cypress Times. Those estimates, the language employed, and the visuals chosen for use in reporting the rally and representing the people gathered, vary greatly based solely on bias.

In the mainstream media, crowd estimates varied.

The New York Times reported that thousands of protesters filled the west lawn of the Capitol and spilled onto the National Mall, while Fox News wrote that tens of thousands marched on Washington. CNN said reporters at the scene described the massive crowd as reaching the tens of thousands.

Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

It was in no way an official estimate, he said.

We asked Piringer whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall, as depicted in the photograph.

It was an impressive crowd, he said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, the crowd only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street, he said.

Yet the photograph so widely posted showed the crowd sprawling all the way to the Washington Monument, which is bordered by 15th and and 17th Streets.

Theres another problem with the photograph: It doesnt include the National Museum of the American Indian, a building located at the corner of Fourth Street and Independence Avenue that opened on Sept. 14, 2004. (Looking at the photograph, the building should be in the upper right hand corner of the National Mall, next to the Air and Space Museum.) That means the picture was taken before the museum opened exactly five years ago. So clearly the photo doesnt show the tea party crowd from the Sept. 12 protest.

Also worth noting are the cranes in front of the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History. According to Randall Kremer, the museums director of public affairs, The last time cranes were in front was in the 1990s when the IMAX theater was being built.

It appears that the photo was actually taken in 1997 at a rally for Promise Keepers, a group for Christian men. According to the groups Web site, nearly 1 million people attended the event. Photos of the Oct. 4, 1997, event that were posted on various Web sites in 2003, 2008 and earlier this year show either the same picture or a similar photo that has identical tents and what appear to be TV screens in the same locations.

Conservative bloggers who originally posted the picture have backed down.

Malkin, like some of her conservative cohorts, retracted the number she had attributed to ABC when the network chastised FreedomWorks president Matt Kibbe, whose organization arranged the event, for inaccurately telling the crowd that the news organization had reported the crowd at 1 million to 1.5 million people.

Malkin linked to the ABC story on her site, and changed her blog post headline to Celebrating the 9/12 rallies; Turnout estimated at 2 million; Update: How many?; FreedomWorks in error.

Say Anything updated its original post to say that the picture was of the wrong rally. An accurate photo clearly shows that (the rally) didnt take place on the mall nearly as extensively as the image I mistakenly posted does. Power Line took the picture down all together.

But because mistakes can still live forever on the Internet and many people who saw the photo on Facebook were unaware it was found to be the wrong picture, we decided to still rate it on the Truth-O-Meter. And Pants on Fire it is.

UPDATED: We updated this item with new details about the Promise Keepers photos.


 
 

gus.
(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:39 PM 

And when it all turns out to be fricken' pack of lies, you still want to make it a "win". 
That is flippin' bizarre.

   No, you have it exactly backwards.  *You* want to believe it's a pack of lies, and *you* think it's a loss.  *That's* bizarre.

gus.

 

 


 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:46 PM 

No, you have it exactly backwards.  *You* want to believe it's a pack of lies, and *you* think it's a loss.  *That's* bizarre.

gus.

*********************

Let's get this straight. 

Your "side" makes it out to be 1 to 2 million strong... Posts a fake picture to prove their point, you buy into it, as does [apparently "millions" of other rightwing nutballs] ... and when it is pointed out that you, I, we all, have been lied to by your thoughtless stepchildren.  "We" are the ones who should be quivering in our boots?

Did I get that about right?

You are mumbling to yourself far more than I am.

Jim...


 
 

gus.
(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:46 PM 

These fuckheads have no connection to ethics or morality.  They lie with impunity, and are smug with it.

   Your totally childish and utterly transparent Righteous Indignation looks even sillier in the light of the admissions, retractions, and corrections, found in the article *you* posted!  gheezuz...

gus.

 

 

 


 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:49 PM 

 Your totally childish and utterly transparent Righteous Indignation looks even sillier in the light of the admissions, retractions, and corrections, found in the article *you* posted!  gheezuz...

gus.

*****************************

Please point them out. 

I cannot even compete with you in the "Righteous Indignation" category.  You are enraged daily on this board..  I assume you are representing yourself accurately.

Jim...


 
 
Janie
(Login pphhrogg)

All I can do is shake my head.....

September 14 2009, 9:49 PM 

Either the neoCONs here are 100% DISHONEST, or they are suffering from some mass delusions!  

It has been PROVEN beyond the shadow of a doubt that there were only about 60-70 thousand people in DC at the tea party.....and if the idiots on this board cannot accept that FACT, then they are even crazier than they appear (and the APPEAR to be certifiable).





 
 

Carolyn
(Login Carolyn826)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:53 PM 

Like I said ... remain in denial.  Continue to focus on photos and 2 words of a frustrated congressman ... and ignore the substance behind the frustration.  You'll get kicked in the butt.

 




 
 

gus.
(Login gus-mccrea)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 9:54 PM 

  Please point them out. 

   Perfect timing.  Stupid posted just below your post, and the similarities are striking, and hilarious.  Yep, you've fallen that far...

gus.

 


 
 
fisconsoclib
(Login fisconsoclib)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 10:01 PM 

pffft!!!!

Oh wait, I hear a knock on the door.

It is one of those kittens inviting me to participate in my favority sport.

[linked image]

 
 

(Login Avalon99)

Re: The Picture.

September 14 2009, 10:04 PM 

Perfect timing.  Stupid posted just below your post, and the similarities are striking, and hilarious.  Yep, you've fallen that far...

********************

Remarkable.

You lie, and you perpetuate lies..  And you still feel self righteous.

I used to think there was some hope for you.  There is not.

Jim...


 
 

Moniker
(Login moniker12)

Re: The Picture.

September 15 2009, 4:59 AM 

She looks like she's just about ready to kick your ass all the way to Sunday, fiscon.

Enjoy!



*****
To no one will we sell, to no one will we refuse or delay, right or justice.
-- Magna Carta

 
 
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