Rep. Diane Watson said, in praising Cuba's health care system, "You can think whatever you want to about Fidel Castro, but he was one of the brightest leaders I have ever met." W.E.B. Dubois, writing in the National Guardian (1953) said, "Joseph Stalin was a great man; few other men of the 20th century approach his stature. ... But also -- and this was the highest proof of his greatness -- he knew the common man, felt his problems, followed his fate." Walter Duranty called Stalin "the greatest living statesman . . . a quiet, unobtrusive man." George Bernard Shaw expressed admiration for Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin.
John Kenneth Galbraith visited Mao's China and praised Mao and the Chinese economic system. Gunther Stein of the Christian Science Monitor admired Mao Tsetung and declared ecstatically that "the men and women pioneers of Yenan are truly new humans in spirit, thought and action," and that Yenan itself constituted "a brand new well integrated society, that has never been seen before anywhere." Michel Oksenberg, President Carter's China expert, complained that "America (is) doomed to decay until radical, even revolutionary, change fundamentally alters the institutions and values," and urged us to "borrow ideas and solutions" from China.
Even Harvard's late Professor John K. Fairbank, by no means the worst tyrant worshipper, believed that America could learn much from the Cultural Revolution, saying, "Americans may find in China's collective life today an ingredient of personal moral concern for one's neighbor that has a lesson for us all." Keep in mind that estimates of the number of Chinese deaths during China's Cultural Revolution range from 2 to 7 million people. Mao Tsetung was admired by many academics and leftists across our country. Just think back to the campus demonstrations of the '60s and '70s when campus radicals, often accompanied by their professors, marched around singing the praises of Mao and waving Mao's little red book, "Quotations from Chairman Mao Tsetung." Forty years later some of these campus radicals are tenured professors and administrators at today's universities and colleges, as well as schoolteachers and principals indoctrinating our youth.
The most authoritative tally of history's most murderous regimes is in a book by University of Hawaii's Professor Rudolph J. Rummel, "Death by Government." Statistics are provided at his website. The Nazis murdered 20 million of their own people and those in nations they captured. Between 1917 and 1987, Stalin and his successors murdered, or were otherwise responsible for the deaths of, 62 million of their own people. Between 1949 and 1987, Mao Tsetung and his successors were responsible for the deaths of 76 million Chinese.
Today's leftists, socialists and progressives would bristle at the suggestion that their agenda differs little from Nazism. However, there's little or no distinction between Nazism and socialism. Even the word Nazi is short for National Socialist German Workers Party. The origins of the unspeakable horrors of Nazism, Stalinism and Maoism did not begin in the '20s, '30s and '40s. Those horrors were simply the end result of long evolution of ideas leading to consolidation of power in central government in the quest for "social justice." It was decent but misguided earlier generations of Germans, like many of today's Americans, who would have cringed at the thought of genocide, who built the Trojan horse for Hitler to take over.
Few Americans have the stomach or ruthlessness to do what is necessary to make their governmental wishes come true. They are willing to abandon constitutional principles and rule of law so that the nation's elite, who believe they are morally and intellectually superior to the rest of us, can have the tools to implement "social justice." Those tools are massive centralized government power. It just turns out last century's notables in acquiring powerful central government, in the name of social justice, were Hitler, Stalin, Mao, but the struggle for social justice isn't over yet, and other suitors of this dubious distinction are waiting in the wings.
How many people have capitalists murdered as they "pioneered" across this nation, against themselves in civil war, and in foreign nations in the name of "freedom"? Every war fought has capitalist interests backing it. Sometimes those interests are obvious and sometimes they aren't so blatant but they are never to far in the background.
How many people have capitalists murdered as they "pioneered" across this nation, against themselves in civil war, and in foreign nations in the name of "freedom"? Every war fought has capitalist interests backing it. Sometimes those interests are obvious and sometimes they aren't so blatant but they are never to far in the background.
So with no attempt to deny, excuse, or minimize any of the darker aspects, Ron, what has been the result? The greatest nation in human history? The *freeist* people in human history? The most successful social experiment in human history? An across-the-board level of wealth, comfort, freedom and security that has never been matched? Do you think all that could have been achieved if the *focus* had been killing and enslaving? So why is it always *your* focus? Why don't you give it all back, if it is so attributable to such horrors?
Well, gus, with the Indians it was about killing, that was very much the focus of the "pioneers" who believed that the only "good indian was a dead indian". But I wonder why you're so defensive, I merely make the point that capitalists are not free from guilt when it comes to the slaughter of millions of people, and that the capitalists can also be viewed as elitists and tyrants.
(Login indisgeyes)
Re: Elites and Tyrants
October 8 2009, 6:33 PM
Well, gus, with the Indians it was about killing, that was very much the focus of the "pioneers" who believed that the only "good indian was a dead indian". But I wonder why you're so defensive, I merely make the point that capitalists are not free from guilt when it comes to the slaughter of millions of people, and that the capitalists can also be viewed as elitists and tyrants.
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I merely make the point that capitalists are not free from guilt when it comes to the slaughter of millions of people
let's compare the "millions of murdered " capitalism vs .....the system of your choice......
Aside from the fact that there is no way to know exactly or even approximately how many Native Americans were killed as the pioneers moved west, I am not talking about just the US when it comes to capitalists and the history of capitalist slaughter goes a long far back in history. So, Gillis, in my opinion that not only is there no way to do a head to head comparison but there is no point to even trying. Any reasonable person would simply recognize that no economic system is free from having blood on its hands and it has more to do with the leadership and greed and little to do with what system they advocated.
Any reasonable person would simply recognize that no economic system is free from having blood on its hands and it has more to do with the leadership and greed and little to do with what system they advocated.
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any reasonable person would recognize that the economic system called communism/socialism
is so egregious in the murder realm that it is far and away the most murderous system (or attempted system) in history without parallel ....nothing else even comes close
even if you compare the twentieth century socialists to the rest of historical record of all other systems combined
bottom line
capitalism and individual liberty (with all of its flaws) has fed and freed more people and cleaned up more environmental problems in history than any other system (or attempted system
and communism/marxism/socialism has caused more environmental damage and murder than any other attempted system in history....bar none
**i say attempted system because socialism has FAILED every time it is tried ...and always for the same reasons..(mainly , when you eliminate private property ownership ...the producers quit producing and either become looters or moochers because the incentive to produce is gone with socialism....the system falls apart without producers or incentive for them to produce )[like keeping what they earn]
Look around you, Gillis, how successful is the capitalistic system for millions of unemployed, those dying because they cannot afford health insurance, and the millions losing their homes. Capitalism is only as good as the honesty of those that run the system, the bankers, the politicians, and the leaders of the corporations. Right now that system is failing because many of those running the system are greedy and far from honest. The best system, in my opinion, is capitalism with a healthy dose of socialism thrown in to act as a counterbalance to the greed and a government that keeps both in check.
It is an impossible task to count the number of people who have been slaughter in the name of the capitalistic system, freedom, and democracy. That doesn't make capitalism any worse or even as bad as other systems, but it certainly is not free from the same atrocities that you blame on other systems.
Look around you, Gillis, how successful is the capitalistic system for millions of unemployed, those dying because they cannot afford health insurance, and the millions losing their homes. Capitalism is only as good as the honesty of those that run the system, the bankers, the politicians, and the leaders of the corporations. Right now that system is failing because many of those running the system are greedy and far from honest. The best system, in my opinion, is capitalism with a healthy dose of socialism thrown in to act as a counterbalance to the greed and a government that keeps both in check.
It is an impossible task to count the number of people who have been slaughter in the name of the capitalistic system, freedom, and democracy. That doesn't make capitalism any worse or even as bad as other systems, but it certainly is not free from the same atrocities that you blame on other systems.
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Look around the world super genius
they all want to come HERE
they have lived the other systems
freedom and property rights are better
it is only the socialists who want to destroy that
"a little bit of socialism, you say?"
that's like a "little bit of slavery....it is always evil to take the time/energy/effort/money/productive capacity from one person and give it to another without his permission (that enslaves him for the sake of his neighbor)
[voluntary charity?..moral] [involuntary charity?....slavery]
socialism =involuntary charity=slavery
This message has been edited by gillis7 on Oct 11, 2009 9:50 AM
Your slavery analogy is purely bullshit, Gillis, most people recognize that easily. I feel sorry for you that you really do believe that but I know that is what you believe so I see no point in arguing with you about it. We will simply have to disagree about what is right and what is good for America.
I will say that I don't believe you really do look around you and see what happens when you take regulations off of business and industry, I don't believe you really look at what happens when you don't have social systems, and I don't believe that you really look at what happens when capitalism is not put in check; and in my opinion, for what little it is worth, is that when you do those things you creatd a decline in social mores, a decline in society in general, bubblies in the economy that burst causing deep recessions or depressions, an increase in crime (both blue and white collar) and I think that history bears out all of things that I believe.
I will say that I don't believe you really do look around you and see what happens when you take regulations off of business and industry, I don't believe you really look at what happens when you don't have social systems, and I don't believe that you really look at what happens when capitalism is not put in check; and in my opinion, for what little it is worth, is that when you do those things you creatd a decline in social mores, a decline in society in general, bubblies in the economy that burst causing deep recessions or depressions, an increase in crime (both blue and white collar) and I think that history bears out all of things that I believe.
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so the government was absent for the past 25 years?
no regulations?
no interference in the market?
it was all chaos and no rules?
the government's inept and incompetent involvement took away many the natural checks and balances of capitalism.
there is no freedom
without the freedom to fail from bad decisions as well as succeed from good ones
history bears out the failure of socialism
over and over
and every attempt ends the same way
removal of incentive ...removal of individual control over private property rights ...the producers leave it to the looters and moochers...then it fails and the reset button.....the result....the natural replacement system is...capitalism
it is the only thing that rescues broken socialist systems from their collapse
and brings the poor up (as opposed to the socialist mantra....of bringing the "rich down"
bringing the rich down does not improve the condition of the poor....it removes the jobs that poor people would have had
history bears that out over and over again
This message has been edited by gillis7 on Oct 11, 2009 11:59 AM
