I have not posted much for several reasons. Mostly I am just too busy, but I also have been so frustrated with politics in general that I can't stand to argue about it much longer. I miss many of my friends on here and other sites, so I first want to say hello to all of you.
That being said, I would like some people's opinion of what has begun to happen at my workplace. On Friday, they will be unveiling a new "Social Media Policy". While for most employers, this is simply a policy that bans using sites like facebook and Myspace on company time, and forbidding talking bad about the company in a public forum; my employer has taken this a step further.
The new policy will also dictate who you are allowed to be friends with. Any former employee is strictly prohibited. Whether any discussion you have with them is relevant to anything remotely work-related in inconsequential. If you are caught socializing on any social media site with a former employee, you will be written up and/or terminated. Also, you are required to report to Human Resources or the owner any conversations you see from any other employee that can be remotely related to work. This includes "I am having a bad day", or "I can't wait for Friday".
To me, this is very much a stifling of free speech. I completely understand that an employer would not want an employee talking trash about the company they work for on a public forum. What I do not get is why they would try so hard to pry in to the personal world of an employee. If I have a conversation with friends - none of which are employees or customers - about my day at work, why the hell is it their business?
To take this even further, a very good friend of mine just quit. He was not happy there, and felt it was best to part ways as it was causing him great amounts of stress, much of which he took home with him. Today, each of the employees were taken in to the office that were "friends" with him on Facebook to discuss his "interactions" online. His interactions were all non-confrontational. Some common comments were "I feel so free - so happy". Not a single comment was directed in a derogatory way toward the company. The owner then proceeded to "ask" me to log in and show him what interactions I had with him. Some of which he had printed out. I refused, saying he had no business asking me to show him my personal conversations. If he wanted to view my public page he could do that freely. This was met with some scorn, and a rant about this new "policy" - as well as subtle threats that there were cases that "held up in court" regarding employee's social media interactions. I let him know that I can only give him my body of work. I work hard every day, I promote the company every chance I get, I take on extra responsibility, and have become a leader in motivating others to do the same. If that wasn't good enough, then there was nothing more I could say.
I would like some opinions on the matter, if you don't mind. I know this will affect the possible promotion I was running for (and in all honesty, I no longer want because of this). And I fear it could affect my job in other ways. I think what is happening is wrong. And it is frustrating. If this were any other time, I would part ways and find a new job. But as of now, with the job market in Michigan, I cannot afford to with a child on the way. Insurance is too important.
Any advice or other commentary on the politics of the matter is appreciated.
I think you should contact the ACLU and discuss the situation with them, if not them at least some lawyer that specializes in work place privacy rights.
Wow....this really astounds me. I am usually the one who would take up for the employer, whom I feel has a right to control your every movement while at work...(my way or the highway) I have heard of morality clauses and such...but this is way beyond that. I think I would be pretty tempted to test this one. I think just about any court in this country would take your side if you were fired for something like this...with all the social networking, we probably do need some ground rules to go by...
On the other hand, in most cases, you are considered an "employee at will", and can be fired for just about anything they can dream up. I don't know who your employer is, but surely they have checked on the "legalness" of their actions?
I have never quit a job in my life without having another one to go to, but I might make an exception on this one.
~~life isn't about how to survive the storm but how to dance in the rain~~
I love my job. That being said, I am really getting scared by my employer (separating the two is crucial for my sanity). I actually have a written complaint written to the Federal department of labor for unpaid wages and expenses (they owe me about $315.00 they refuse to pay) - I just haven't sent it. It seems they have taken the attitude of "if you don't like it, leave". And in most cases, I wouldn't disagree with this. But this is coming from a person (employer) who when questioned if something is illegal, belittles an employee in a company meeting with "when I found you, you were sweeping floors in a bar". I am just feeling so very torn. I would leave tomorrow, no strings attached if it were just me and my wife. But now, I have more to think of - as my wife is with child. Also, I do not want to cause my wife any undue stress in starting a new job, or even looking for one right now. It's very hard, as I am consistently frustrated with having to look away from some of my core principles for the sake of my wife and soon-to-be child.
I think when this new policy is unveiled, I might have to stand up for myself. If I keep bending, I am eventually going to break one way or another. I have to draw the line somewhere. I have to.
The "HR Department" is the same as the secretary at my workplace. They are the same person. And yes, they are "in bed" with them. They wrote the written word of the policy.... They also copied the facebook posts as they were friends with just about everybody. Not so much anymore - which has prompted a whole other tirade about how we shouldn't disown members of our "team" for doing "the right thing".
The "HR Department" is the same as the secretary at my workplace. They are the same person. And yes, they are "in bed" with them. They wrote the written word of the policy.... They also copied the facebook posts as they were friends with just about everybody. Not so much anymore - which has prompted a whole other tirade about how we shouldn't disown members of our "team" for doing "the right thing".
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Send me email.. avalon9ak@yahoo.com .. don't post details here. Fascists like susan and gus will denigrate you, and, well, 'nuff said.
I would say you're going to have to make some choices and some prioritizations. If you take up for yourself, which is perfectly natural, then they could find a way to fire you, and make it stick. In such case you have not only accomplished nothing, but made it worse by being fired instead of just leaving. Fighting all these epic and noble battles means court, with all the costs, and all the time, and all the stress that comes with it. And regardless of any of that, they will brand you as someone with an "attitude problem", who is not a "team player". So... If you really cannot afford to walk for now, then quit trying to fix what isn't yours and what you have no control over. Your sanity, as you say, is a relative thing that you *can* control.
You can suck it up, and dumb down, and play their little games, and *keep your job*, or you can just not show up one day, and forget you ever worked there. If keeping this job is that important to you(and I am *not* making light of that), then do the above, and begin furiously looking for another job in your off time.
I appreciate it. And I pretty much am aware that what you have written are my clear choices for now. I don't wish to necessarily drag this out in court. I am going to document every conversation I have, so that if I am fired, or nearly forced to quit in some manner, I can at least fight for unemployment. In the end, in a worst case scenario, that is all that I would fight for, unless it became even more egregious.
I have to draw a line somewhere. I am just struggling on where I should draw that line.
But I can say this: if there was ever a true justification for unionizing, it is to protect employees from practices like this - and worse.
I began updating my resume today. The tough part is finding time to interview with my hours. Not to mention that my company phone - which I am to keep on my person at all times - has GPS tracking enabled (which they have explicitly denied despite my seeing the interface and real-time tracking.)
Send me email.. avalon9ak@yahoo.com .. don't post details here. Fascists like susan and gus will denigrate you, and, well, 'nuff said.
Blow it out your ass, sport. If that's all you have, then why don't you just call it a night, or trot on over to Myway where intellectual acumen such as this will be more appreciated? I have always been decent enough to strictly refrain from public speculating about whatever the cause might be for your obvious degeneration as the night wears on. I have always figured you deserved the benefit of a doubt, and it was none of my business anyway. You haven't ever done shit to deserve my decency. I do it for me, more than for you.
Blow it out your ass, sport. If that's all you have, then why don't you just call it a night, or trot on over to Myway where intellectual acumen such as this will be more appreciated? I have always been decent enough to strictly refrain from public speculating about whatever the cause might be for your obvious degeneration as the night wears on. I have always figured you deserved the benefit of a doubt, and it was none of my business anyway. You haven't ever done shit to deserve my decency. I do it for me, more than for you.
gus.
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I've given far more to you gus, than you've ever given to me.
[and, for the record, you are no "horseman"... in spite of your assertions that you were]
Blow it out your ass, sport. If that's all you have, then why don't you just call it a night, or trot on over to Myway where intellectual acumen such as this will be more appreciated? I have always been decent enough to strictly refrain from public speculating about whatever the cause might be for your obvious degeneration as the night wears on. I have always figured you deserved the benefit of a doubt, and it was none of my business anyway. You haven't ever done shit to deserve my decency. I do it for me, more than for you.
gus.
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I've given far more to you gus, than you've ever given to me.
You certainly have. Just tonight, for example, we have "fascist", and "idiot". Just don't push, dipshit. We'll both be the better off...
[and, for the record, you are no "horseman"... in spite of your assertions that you were]
I don't know where this haunts you from, but it clearly does. You are an old fool that hasn't been horseback in ages, and so am I. The difference is that I will quite litterally do myself grievous harm to the point of death in order to ride you into the dust behind me, because I simply don't care enough about remaining alive not to. You, OTOH, have entirely too much to lose. Sometimes things are just that simple.
I don't know where this haunts you from, but it clearly does. You are an old fool that hasn't been horseback in ages, and so am I. The difference is that I will quite litterally do myself grievous harm to the point of death in order to ride you into the dust behind me, because I simply don't care enough about remaining alive not to. You, OTOH, have entirely too much to lose. Sometimes things are just that simple.
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You just pretend something you aren't. I'm calling you on it.
Mike, Just wanted to say that I am very sorry for all of the stress that you are feeling because of your job. I do believe the job market will pick up, it has here in Northern Indiana. Hard to believe but the RV industry is starting to pick up. I was one who thought they were done... never to open up again. I believe things will pick up more so in the summer of 2010. Hope you can hang in for a while longer. Please keep us informed and I agree with your keeping records of every meeting, formal and informal. Also ... I want to say congratulations on the soon to be bundle of pure joy that is sure to melt your heart.
It is an unfortunate truth that the company in most cases holds the trump suite.
The policies are beyond belief and will in the end cause them more harm than good. Most workers will think like you do and when the economy improves they will be left with those employers that don't have the skills to leave.
You seem to have a good grasp on your choices which because of your family responsibilities are limited for now.
Give them what they pay you for a fair days work and that is all they are entitled to and all they deserve at this point. They have essentionally told you they don't trust you or value your judgment about how to handle relations or communications with others. So you have no obligation to promote the company beyond what is expected in your daily job activities.
I don't know where this haunts you from, but it clearly does. You are an old fool that hasn't been horseback in ages, and so am I. The difference is that I will quite litterally do myself grievous harm to the point of death in order to ride you into the dust behind me, because I simply don't care enough about remaining alive not to. You, OTOH, have entirely too much to lose. Sometimes things are just that simple.
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You just pretend something you aren't. I'm calling you on it.
Amazing, it's like you never read the paragraph you copied to respond to. Yes, I am a horseman and a good one, in any way you can dream up to define it. For some reason that bothers you, but I really don't care.
The policies are beyond belief and will in the end cause them more harm than good. Most workers will think like you do and when the economy improves they will be left with those employers that don't have the skills to leave.
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The scary truth? We have 9 technicians. In the last 18 months, there have been 13 that have left or been fired (3 fired, 10 left). Service has suffered, surely, and customers have noticed it. When the high turnover is brought to his attention as a potential problem, it is dismissed. It is "the team's" fault for fostering negativity.
Zero introspect. Zero humility. Even his own mother went out of her way to comment to me when I met her that he was "terribly hard to work for". It really is sad.
I didn't think anyone else would be going through similar things such as myself! Since the "new" old company has reopened we were told we cannot talk to prior employees from the old company. We cannot talk about what is going on in the company at all nor can we can about any operations or figures. If we are caught it's cause to be fired. All of this and we are open over 8 months and have no employee handbook which to go on either. We worked federal holidays and didn't get paid. We were told to take an extra day off in the future or during the week of the holiday. Which in ways is almost impossible because we have a budget for each week and someone would have to get paid extra to cover for myself or the manager. We know nothing in regards to our sick time or vacation time yet. I have worked overtime twice now 8 hours each time and haven't gotten paid. I was told to take the time off. Nothing is written anywhere that states this as law to our company. Since we reopened they have this attitude that we owe them! We should be thankfull we have jobs to come and work at. This attitude isn't working any longer with me! At this point the stress again is getting to me. I know I should just take it or leave it at this point. After so many years it's a hard thing to decide on. If we question any of these things we are told we are complaining!
About 1 year ago my son was in a similar situation. His boss was spending money on himself and his new girlfriend like there was no tomorrow. The spending included a new car, and a "boob" job for her. At the same time he cut employee wages. My son watched as employees left one after the other. He started looking for a new job but like the others he had to be discreet. His boss had a best friend who had worked at the company from it's beginning, he quit. No one was able to have a civil conversation with the owner about what was happening to the company. I told my son that IMO the man was deliberately running the company into the ground and he should leave just as soon as he found another job. He had to search on days off, vacation and sick days but thankfully my son did find a job with a very well run company. I hope that those of you who feel stuck with an out of control manager and/or owner will find better jobs... and soon.
Sorry about your job predicament. Sometimes Unions are a Godsend. I think upgrading your resume is a good idea. I hope at least you have good medical for the upcoming birth of your baby. When is it due and do you know the gender yet? CONGRATULATIONS...
Try to hang in there as long as you can. Do your job to the best of your ability and try to ignore the negatives.
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I've learned that the people you care most about in life are taken from you too soon and
all the less important ones just never go away.
And the real pains in the ass are permanent.
You should check with an attorney. It appears tht you are clearly being denied the right to freedom of association.
You do have a couple of choices:
Continue the status quo by doing nothing.
Or check with the attorney to see if they are violating your rights.
If they are violating your rights to freedom of association, you may sue to regain those rights.
However, if you win, they may find a reason to fire you on some unrelated charge.
I do think that I would check with an attorney and seek his/her advice.
Edited to Add: If you press the charges, be sure to document everything you do on the job and try to have witnesses for every action. You may be able to sue for harassment or discrimination.
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Glenn Beck hates 9/11 survivors. Shocking as Glenn Beck claimed that he hates 9/11 survivors. The Fox news personality and media clown has always been an outrageous demagogue, a pied piper to the illiterate, unwashed masses that make up the Fox news audience. Michael Stone,Examiner.com
This message has been edited by Poetse12 on Nov 3, 2009 12:26 PM
Does anyone know if it is even legal to track your employees via GPS without telling them (and even blatantly lying about it to their faces) - during NON BUSINESS HOURS?
THe other thing that has been a major frustration is that he has given everyone company cell phones, because of the "nature of the job". We are to keep these on us and turned on at all times of the day. A former employee was even written up for turning his off in the evening. What he doesn't disclose is that he has enabled GPS tracking on these phones, and can see an employee's whereabouts, and history as far back as 30 days at any given time. He has been asked about the software, and has denied it is active. Well, I can tell you. It's active. The bastard even gets an email alert when his wife goes in or out of a 1-mile radius from their house.
Something else, which doesn't bother me nearly as much, is that he records all phone calls without disclosure. The policy, which he has affirmed states that 1 in 5 calls are recorded at random for sampling and quality control. However, there is no disclosure of the fact to employee or customer alike that they are indeed recording any call routed through the phone system. I know for a fact, because I was told to set it up this way when I installed the new phone system.
Another questionable act is that if there is a mistake on your time sheet that causes you to lose money - oh well. no opportunity to correct it. Keep in mind that my time sheet, when printed, is nearly 25 pages in length for any given week as it details every ticket and note that was worked on during the day. Its easy to find a mistake labeled for AM when it should have been PM. If you catch this any time after midnight on Saturday, you are out of luck. However, if they find a mistake they made, you can be sure they will dock it from the next check.
On to vehicle expenses. We had a policy that we were to use the company vehicles if available. If we used our personal vehicles at our own elective, we would not be reimbursed. Fine. OK. No big deal. That changed when we were told we were no longer allowed to use the company vehicles unless prior approval was given. This was "always the policy". That same day, the vehicle policy was mysteriously removed from the handbook. The only noticed we received was that the handbook had been edited. We were supposed to figure out what had changed. So now, we get reimbursed nothing on vehicle expenses - and we are required to use our vehicle if scheduled.
I have more. I just needed to vent. It really is ridiculous.
-Mike
Edit to remove signature.
This message has been edited by frenchy539 on Nov 3, 2009 6:16 PM
As far as I'm concerned, the company has the right to tell you not to use the social sites and associate with former employees, but ONLY when you are on the clock. They basically own you during those hours. If you are doing nothing illegal after hours, they should STFU and mind their own business.
I have been a manager of 25 or more people for several years in my career. I hated it. The boys at the top dictated how the employees were to be treated, but also that we had to be vigilant` not to step on their civil rights. Management at the top is easy becuase they trickle the poison down to poor middle managers who earn 10% of what the big boys get. It was very difficult for us middle managers, and that was before workplace web access.
I have not been in a magaement position for the last 20 years of my career since it was giving me too much stress. I was just a well paid tech person who had a whole lot of pleasant co-workers and sensitive managers.
In any case, it sucks when they actually want to force you to show your web comments, especially if they weren't written on company time. I think I would get two IDs on the social sites, one for what you post in the office and one for outside.
In any case, the fascists usually hold all the winning cards and I can only say I'm so fucking glad I retired before the "shit hit the fan" at Citigroup.
Good luck in whatever you do.
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"We are all equal, but we definitely are not the same"
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Thanks Roby. I can assure you that nothing is posted on any social media site during paid time. We have very strict monitoring software that blocks all those sites. Are there workarounds? Kind of. I can remote in to my home network and post stuff from there, but they can see where I had gained remote access to as well. So, it can't really be done.
I have since locked my facebook account down. You can't even search for me unless you are already my friend. I have removed all ties to any current employees from my account. It is no longer a public forum. The only people who can see what I say are my "friends". It will remain that way for the foreseeable future.
I just can't get over how insanely controlling he is. He trusts and respects no one, yet demands trust and respect from everyone. I know some of the things he does have to be illegal. And it pisses me off.
Today, I was taken out to lunch, and told how dangerous my association with my friend that had quit is. He "doesn't want to see me get dragged down". He also inferred that those types of associations can have a negative impact on my employment - on everyone at the office. That he couldn't be a very good friend if he could impact my life in such a way. I couldn't believe it. I have never wanted to physically harm an employer before today. I was sickened. But, one thing I did get - I knew the bastard was paying. So, I ordered the New York Strip ($24.00) instead of an 8.00 sandwich combo. Ha!
It sounds like the cost of a Lawyer will be the deciding factor as to your next step. Just be sure to cover your ars, carry small notebooks and write down even the most mundane things you do while on the clock. The not paying for time worked is definitely a violation of the law in Indiana and I would think everywhere. Make sure that some if not most everyone will be able to back you up on the companies mistaken undocumented hours worked policy. The cell phone, because it is company property most likely can have GPS and be tracked 24/7. I would suggest that you place it in a baggie and "accidentally" leave it in your refrigerator when you don't want to be followed. Get yourself one of the pay as you go cell phones for your personal use & emergencies, I think all carriers now offer them. You will need one for your job search anyway. Best of luck to you.
LOL just read your reply to roby ... yes, always go for the steak.
This message has been edited by cjgrill on Nov 3, 2009 7:00 PM
But, I still question the legality of making me carry a cell phone outside of working hours. He has plenty of other ways of reaching me. That isn't the issue. The only time he conveniently calls is if he sees the work phone is off, or if you are meeting someone from work socially.
I also wonder if he should have to disclose the GPS software. He hasn't, and has no intentions of doing so.
Fascists like susan and gus will denigrate you, and, well, 'nuff said.
Kiss my ass...we all know who the freakin' KOOK is on this board. You should be ashamed....and Mike the first time Jim gets drunk off his ass, he will divulge...trust me.
~~life isn't about how to survive the storm but how to dance in the rain~~
Kiss my ass...we all know who the freakin' KOOK is on this board. You should be ashamed....and Mike the first time Jim gets drunk off his ass, he will divulge...trust me.
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Where? the target is so big.
If you don't like this board Susan, please leave and don't come back.
[as I recall, you were the one whining the loudest when I cancelled it... put your money where your mouth is.... on the other hand; don't. I don't want to make change on that transaction]
You haven't been part of the "loyal opposition" since at least 2003.
You are like Glenn Beck.. false tears, and false regurgitations of piety and sincerity.
Outside of poetse and web, you are the best example of how a failure to engage in critical thinking can screw a person up.
You really have no concept of critical thinking or who fails at it. All you can do is quote insults from that internet site...at least I write my own. PFFFFT.
~~life isn't about how to survive the storm but how to dance in the rain~~
You really have no concept of critical thinking or who fails at it. All you can do is quote insults from that internet site...at least I write my own. PFFFFT.
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Well, you are the one who said that you determine the truth by "sitting and watching" ... how is that an example of critical thinking?
But, ok.. fair enough. Propose a question to debate. We'll see where this goes.
