This Essbase discussion board is provided as a free service and dedicated to all the Essbase professionals out there!
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Big news: Hyperion on-premise premier support extended

June 14 2017 at 4:30 PM
No score for this post

Sroux 
from IP address 86.199.77.237

Following TimG and HenriV retweet about premier support extension can we really consider it a good news?

Won't it mean, for cloud skeptical minds, that the next on prem release won't happen before late 2018 or early 2019?

See ya in kscope and hoping to drink a fresh beer with each one of you as it is already +95F here!

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
AuthorReply

Jeff McAhren

165.225.34.125

They did it with 11.1.2.1 too

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 10:47 AM 

They extended 11.1.2.1 a few years ago as well. 11.1.2.1 was released in April 2011, with premier support ending in April 2016. Premier support was extended by two years, and now ends April 2018.

I believe that 11.1.2.4 was released in February 2015, so the natural premier support ends February 2020, and is now extended ten months to December 2020? That seems a little arbitrary, I guess they they just rounded two months down to make the date easy to remember? 11.1.2.3 was extended too.

Sure, this *could* be related to future release plans, but I don't think that's a foregone conclusion.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
TimG

99.66.117.90

Re: They did it with 11.1.2.1 too

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 12:00 PM 

I don't understand all the details of the info that has been circulating saying that 11.1.2.*3* has Premier Support through date A while 11.1.2.*4* has PS through date B. That's not how Oracle has ever specified PS windows. This stuff is covered by documented Oracle policies that are broader in applicability than just EPM/BI.

PS attaches to the "major release", which is 11.1.2 level (not the "patch set", which is 11.1.2.1 or 11.1.2.4 or whatever). PS was originally going to expire in April 2016 (5 years from GA date), but Oracle extended it through April 2018 (in late 2013) then to December 2018 (just a couple of months ago) and now, reportedly, through 2020. A large extension following the short extension so closely suggests that Oracle are reacting to customer disquiet (which is great). Jeff, my take is that you're hearing rapidly changing stories because the story is changing rapidly. :)

All that said, I haven't found any official written statement of any of this yet. The relevant doc hasn't been updated since the extension to the December 2018 date. http://www.oracle.com/us/support/library/lifetime-support-applications-069216.pdf



 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Cameron Lackpour

108.52.132.249

Fixing Humpty Dumpty

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 2:09 PM 

Planning is an easy one -- pull PBCS out of its VM in the cloud and make it on premises.

But wither HFM? There is no future for that product. Is there? FCCS certainly isn't it and I don't think is intended to be. They'll stick the Candy Crush UI on it?

DRM becomes whatever their cloud tool is?

FDMEE becomes Data Management?

The problem I see is that their cloud products have gone off in different directions (PBCS being sort of, but only sort of cf. EPBCS) from their on-premises counterparts.

Essbase? Is what's in OAC ever coming to on-premises? Come to the sessions (Tim's and mine included) and you'll see how different the tool is from what we've known for so long.

They've cut the Gordian knot of keeping on-premises at parity with cloud to torture a phrase. How are they going to put it all together again when their cloud analogues have become so different both in purpose and architecturally?

Also, if what I have seen as right, we're talking July 2018. That's another year away.

I'm glad to read that there won't be a riot at Kscope and am incredibly interested to hear how they're going to present this. Beyond interested in fact.

Regards,

Cameron Lackpour

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

Jeff McAhren

165.225.34.125

So the support window is based on the first three positions (11.1.2)?

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 4:17 PM 

Thanks for this Tim, I thought the support windows were based on all four positions (11.1.2.1), this is the first time I've heard that it's three positions.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
TimG

99.66.117.90

Re: So the support window is based on the first three positions (11.1.2)?

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 5:16 PM 

Essentially, yes.

At the patch set (fourth position) level, there *is* a time period during which the patch set is eligible for fixes and patch set *updates* (fifth position!) - it's usually one year from the release of the next patch set. After that Oracle support can say "too bad, you'll have to upgrade" for a bug, and will stop producing PSUs for the patch set. But that's not *directly* linked to the Premier Support timeline.

It's definitely complex.

I had to figure it out a couple of years ago and wrote a blog post to refer back to. I think all the policies in there are still in force and the links to Oracle sources are good: http://www.cubecoder.com/making-sense-of-versioning-and-support-policy/

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

Jeff McAhren

165.225.34.125

Sunday June 25, 8:45 AM, JW Marriott San Antonio, Grand Oaks Ballroom

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 11:00 AM 

I usually arrive mid-day on Sunday, but I'm going out of my way to be at the conference by 9:30 AM at the latest this year.

8:45 AM Keynote: Matt Bradley, Sr. VP of Business Analytics Product Development
9:30 AM On-Premise Update
11:00 AM Bridge to Cloud (Hybrid)
12:00 PM Lunch Cibolo Canyon 5/6/7
1:00 PM EPM Cloud
2:30 PM Special Preview from the Data Relationship Management Team
3:10 PM EPM Cloud (Continued)
4:30 PM BI Cloud Services for EPM


As for future releases, I'm definitely hearing conflicting things about what's going on.. we had a nice contingent of experts on hand at the Dallas user group meeting a few weeks ago who spoke freely on this very topic, and there seemed to be a consensus that we won't see a big on-prem release for quite a while.

But then exactly one week later, I spoke with a knowledgeable partner principal who said that Oracle reversed course on this, and is back to committing to a major on-prem sooner than later. I asked him who his source was, and it was an authoritative Oracle employee.

So, who knows. Maybe we'll find out at KScope.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
TimG

99.66.117.90

Re: Sunday June 25, 8:45 AM, JW Marriott San Antonio, Grand Oaks Ballroom

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 12:01 PM 

The symposium will be an interesting one for sure! Just wanted to mention that Matt Bradley has a session during the week called "The Future of On-Prem EPM" specifically to talk (and take questions) on these topics too.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

Gary Crisci

216.66.5.46

Re: Big news: Hyperion on-premise premier support extended

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 12:32 PM 

I believe Oracle is shifting position based on capabilities. Initially Oracle was pushing SaaS apps as the only solution. They are investing more in IaaS and PaaS now. The question we are asking, and Oracle is taking seriously is, "if I move to the "Cloud" using your IaaS or PaaS, are you going to tell me I'm using non-strategic software?"

The question becomes, do I need to go to SaaS if I want to go to the cloud with Oracle? They need to be very careful about that answer. I think they are aware of this and looking to figure out how to support different customer needs.

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
TimG

99.66.117.90

Re: Big news: Hyperion on-premise premier support extended

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 2:04 PM 

By IaaS do you mean "installing and running the 'on-prem' software on Oracle servers"?

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Pete

150.101.155.221

Re: Big news: Hyperion on-premise premier support extended

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 9:59 PM 

Well the whole theory of an internally hosted 'cloud-box' still kicks around. I know a few of the banks down here are looking at it as an option (to get around the data hosting legislation).

You wouldn't think Oracle would find much value in competing with AWS\Azure in the pure IAAS space.

It is 'interesting' (for a small value of interesting perhaps) that Essbase in the cloud is (seems? Tim \ Cameron thoughts here?) much more PAAS than the pure SAAS approach of PBCS. Still a pretty aggressive price point though.




 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Cameron Lackpour

108.52.132.249

It's a PaaS play

No score for this post
June 15 2017, 10:23 PM 

Machine image, unlimited users, managing patches, buying fortyleven SKUs, etc., etc., etc. is all very different from EPM's SaaS model.

That's the key thing to understand: This Is Not EPM. Know that and then you'll understand why things are so different.

Now as to what I, in my incredibly unimportant (yeah, you know that and so do I) way, would like to see is EPM on PaaS but I don't know if that will ever happen. Tim Tow has been talking about Essbase-in-a-box for literally years -- well before Oracle bought Hyperion. Maybe some time that will come true for all of what we (not really Oracle) consider to be "Hyperion". A man can dream.

In the meantime, you should come to all of the sessions (I think there are least three if not four non-Oracle ones) at Kscope. I'm super interested to observe the different perspectives we'll have on the tool. It is fascinating and not-so-much all at the same time.

Regards,

Cameron Lackpour

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   

Gary Crisci

216.66.5.46

Re: Big news: Hyperion on-premise premier support extended

No score for this post
June 16 2017, 8:09 AM 

Yes Tim

To clarify IaaS, infrastructure as a service = subscribing to basic compute from Oracle. We still manage everything on the server, same as today; but technically I am in the "cloud". This probably won't be a big play for Oracle since Amazon and Microsoft can likely continue to do it cheaper.

PaaS, platform as a service = what we have called a "hosted solution" for years. Oracle runs the infrastructure and maintains the software (patching, trouble tickets, etc.) This is where Oracle has a lot of opportunity, especially in certain ERP spaces. They have Fusion in the cloud as a SaaS, but if you look at the other ERPs like EBS, PeopleSoft, and JD Edwards, PaaS is the best option for getting those customers into the cloud. Getting people to abandon those after 20+ years isn't going to be so easy. Oracle needs to change the proposition to allow people to lift and shift their existing apps into the cloud. Effectively moving to the cloud becomes a hardware refresh. In my opinion this is the only way to make it palatable to some organizations.

So if this becomes the strategy for many organizations, then I go back to my original question, if I go to the cloud but I'm using "on-premise" software, do I still get treated like a step-child? Oracle needs to solve that right away. Extending the support, I believe, is a first step in that direction.


 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Tim Tow

107.77.64.47

Re: Big news: Hyperion on-premise premier support extended

No score for this post
June 16 2017, 10:54 AM 


In my world, which is focused primarily on Essbase customers, there is a lot of apprehension in going to the Essbase cloud and, the longer the customer has been an Essbase shop, and therefore probably have some pretty good pricing, the more the apprehension. Some of my customers just say there is no way they are going to cede control of the infrastructure, which they have spent years building and refining, to an unknown environment. Currently, I know of only one customer in my world looking at Essbase cloud (OAC). The cost is also a large factor. I have a couple of customers who, if they spec'ed out OAC to fit their needs, the monthly cost would exceed the original price they paid for a perpetual license.

These customers are not going to settle for never having an upgrade. My guess is that the tides will shift and Oracle will put more focus back in on-prem; the on-prem versions of the software will benefit from the cloud efforts in stability and manageability.

In the IAAS battle with Amazon/Microsoft, I read an article regarding how Oracle is fighting them that said, if I remember correctly, that Oracle is charging double if the customer installs on AWS/Azure. I would think they could get sued for that..

Tim

Tim Tow
Oracle ACE Alumni
Applied OLAP, Inc

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
Cameron Lackpour

108.52.132.249

When will OAC's Essbase make it to on-premises or will it ever?

No score for this post
June 16 2017, 11:37 AM 

There are some compelling functions in Essbase cloud. Will they ever make it to on-premises now that EPM and BI (which what OAC/Essnase is under) are completely separate groups? Actually, they've been that way for quite a while but that bifurcation has intensified.

Regards,

Cameron Lackpour

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
GlennS

207.126.99.193

Re: Big news: Hyperion on-premise premier support extended

No score for this post
June 16 2017, 1:28 PM 

We all talk about cloud like it is this big different thing. In some ways it is, in others it is no different than what we have. For companies that are "Cloud" adverse, Oracle is offering "Cloud at Customer" to put the machine in the client's data center. I believe the requirement for that is it has to be a certain size and at least a three year subscription. While I would love to see the improvements ported to On-Prem, I understand how it does not make sense for Oracle to do so with all the testing on environments that has to be done. Cloud at customer would help with that as it would still be one platform.
I do think Oracle is getting customers upset with the lack of support for On-Prem and some as asking if I have to convert, why don't I look at other technologies

 
Scoring disabled. You must be logged in to score posts.Respond to this message   
 
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

RSS feed for this forum - http://www.network54.com/Forum/58296?xml=rss. Please email hypess (at) gmail.com, if you have any questions/feedback/issues.