Hoping for possible ID of Dutch Naval C.O.August 28 2017 at 9:16 AM
No score for this post
|Kevin D (no login)|
from IP address 188.8.131.52
I wonder if anyone can, on the off-chance, ID the person in civilian attire, supposedly a Dutch Naval C.O. being lead out of a Jap POW camp.
I know nothing about the pic really save it was taken, supposedly in Indonesia, maybe at Makassar.
Realise it’s a very long shot, but……………………………………if you don’t ask you will never know.
IDNo score for this post
|August 28 2017, 9:28 AM |
the one on the right for sure is a high ranking KNIL officer in 1941 dress, he looks familiar
Update: officer is KNIL CiC ter Poorten, civilian is GG Starkenborg Stachouwer. Picture can be found on the net with caption that they both enter a JP internment camp.
|This message has been edited by nuyt from IP address 184.108.40.206 on Aug 28, 2017 9:54 AM|
a few more historical detailsNo score for this post
|August 28 2017, 7:10 PM |
For those who do not know or have forgotten, both of these men would survive their experiences as prisoners of war, being liberated in August 1945.
Luitenant-Generaal Hein ter Pooten was a true islander, born in Buitenzorg (now Bogor), Java, on November 21, 1887. As CiC KNIL and General Officer Commanding ABDAGround (some sources designate this Allied component as ABDALand), it fell to him to surrender the Allied military forces in the NEI on March 8, 1942. Soon after liberation, he moved to the Netherlands, and believing himself to be a scapegoat for the Allied disaster in the Dutch East Indies, resigned from military service in late February 1946. Ter Poorten died in The Hague, aged 80, on January 15, 1968.
Governor-General Alidius T. van Starkenborgh Stachouwer, on the other hand, was born to a noble family in Gronigen, Nederland, on March 7, 1888. He attained high civil rank in the home country and served there until 1936. Queen Wilhelmina appointed him as governor-general of the NEI in September of that year. Although he refused special treatment by the Japanese in March 1942, which would in effect have placed him under house arrest at home with his family,* he was nonetheless confined in various camps for military and civil officers of high rank and prestige, finally being liberated from one in Manchuria (one of his fellow campmates was Lieut. Gen. Jonathan Wainwright, who had found himself in equally unenviable circumstances). Returning to the home country, he served as the ambassador to France from 1945 to 1948, and thereafter as the Dutch representative to NATO from 1950 to 1956. Starkenborgh Stachouwer died in Wassenaar, Nederland, aged 90, on August 16, 1978.
*Ironically and bitterly, his principled decision then led to the consigning of his wife and family to an internment camp.
Well that WAS quick guys!No score for this post
|August 28 2017, 10:56 PM |
Thanks Nuyt and Nelson!
But am I to interpret from your reply Nuyt that this is them leaving a camp in the early war years? Or after being liberated? Japs certainly look pretty 'kowtowed' to me for being early in war is all. That is, I interpreted this pic to wars end, after surrender.
And speaking of GG Starkenborg Stachouwer:
That is one of what I consider the many bug-bears in Tom Womack's book of some years ago now, (which IMO should / could have been the definitive account on the fall of the Indies, but wasn't, again only IMO), and that is every time he uses the above's name, which is often, he use it in full, instead of once introducing him as such, just uses the shortened / abbreviated ‘Stachouwer’ to refer to the individual. But that’s just me, but is not the only criticism I have of that book, if I dare say so here. But all credit to him after all, at least he wrote the / a book (which is far more than I can say I ever attempted)!
Re: Well that WAS quick guys!No score for this post
|August 29 2017, 7:57 AM |
> But am I to interpret from your reply Nuyt that this is them leaving a camp in the early war years? Or after being liberated? Japs certainly look pretty ‘kowtowed’ to me for being early in war is all. That is, I interpreted this pic to war’s end, after surrender. >
I think Nuyt is rather clear when he writes “they both enter
a JP internment camp.” If he isn’t, the Japanese in the background are clearly armed, the officer wearing his katana and the other ranks holding rifles. Ergo, the high-ranking Dutchmen are shown as they begin
There is a leftward cropping of the same photo on-line, showing the two Dutchmen preceded—i.e., escorted—by Japanese soldiers as they enter the camp. The best quality one is a Gettyimage. To access it, click on
Finally, a poorer quality variant of the same photo is accompanied by this cutline: “Governor-General Tjarda Starkenborgh Stachouwer and General Hein ter Poorten brought into an internment camp; the two capitulated to invading Japanese forces on 9 March 1942, leading to a three-year-long occupation.”
‘Fraid there ain’t no ambiguity there, bro.
NOT the same photoNo score for this post
|August 29 2017, 8:46 AM |
What I ascribed as a leftward crop of the same photo is definitely not. The image Kevin found was shot an instant before the one I discovered, as the relative positions of Starkenborgh Stachouwer’s right leg and ter Poorten’s left leg show. And the second image is indeed shifted left. Same photo sequence, however, and there seems little doubt that the two men are just beginning an unpleasant three years and five months.
Agreed re 'dating' of photo.No score for this post
|August 29 2017, 9:15 AM |
Seeing the larger photo with soldier with gun leading makes a world of difference as to whats happening. Thanks Nelson. Besides on second thoughts those two prisoners look way to healthy / well feed to be 'coming out' after their three plus years of internement.
So I guess what I took for a kowtowed look on Japs in rear was one more of surprise / inquisitiveness at seeing the big 'white man' kowtowed, close and personal, maybe for a / even 'the' first time?
Re: Agreed on ‘dating’ of photoNo score for this post
|August 29 2017, 3:57 PM |
> ...on second thoughts those two prisoners look way too healthy / well fed to be ‘coming out’ after their three plus years of internment. >
Not to mention Starkenborgh Stachouwer’s then pristine white suit.
> ... look on Japs in rear was one more of surprise / inquisitiveness at seeing the big ‘white man’ kowtowed, close and personal, maybe for a / even ‘the’ first time? >
If the Japanese soldiers were part of a military police or prison guard unit, my guess is they had seen Allied prisoners of war previously. On this momentous occasion, however, a couple of big shot Dutch officers were going into the bag, and ‘tis clear that one or more photographers were present to help send the Dutchmen thither, as well as obtain some snaps useful for propaganda. I’d guess at least two photogs were on the scene, because otherwise that was fast shootin’ indeed to capture a pair of images so closely spaced timewise, given the camera technology of early 1942. One suspicions that hubbub is what has the soldiers to the rear agog.
Agreed, again. ;-) n/tNo score for this post
|August 29 2017, 4:49 PM |
And some time earlier in the day / week............No score for this post
|August 30 2017, 12:04 PM |
And even earlier yet in BataviaNo score for this post
|August 30 2017, 5:23 PM |
Japanese bicycle troops roll through the streets of Batavia, in the latter instance accompanied by a Type 95 Ha-Go light tank.
Likely different photographer tooNo score for this post
|March 12 2018, 9:34 PM |
These shots were taken nearly at the same time by two photographers standing side by side. These cameras likely they were manually film advancing system, which takes a moment between shots. The perspective is also about 1.5-2m to the left in the 2nd shot, so it is unlikely that a single cameraman could have shot, moved, advanced, and shot again, I such a short time.
alternatively they were take-outs from a movie reel, where the cameraman moves left. id be interested to see if this was indeed the case.