# "While I Eat Eclairs"

April 17 2002 at 4:19 AM

Response to What are we doin here?

Now you're missing the point.

What? Can't read my mind if I offer an incompletely expressed thought? Imagine that.

Am i demanding rigorous proofs?

You're demanding the potential for them. Anything not wholly empirical was excluded from your game.

Hey, none of my business. It's your game. I tried to point out a (seemingly) unintended consequence to this prohibition that could be wholly or partially self-defeating to your stated cause, but that message is not getting through.

In rejecting the frozen solution as missing the point, i do not say there is none.

-I- said there is none. And that does follow, because you've rejected the rope stiffening solution. That IS a solution to the problem as you posed it, so you've left the realm of logic already. I could only guess that you asked for a solution on how to stiffen the rope (I have to guess, since it was ambiguous on several levels), and one such solution was presented to you, and you have rejected it. If you aren't looking for a way to stiffen a rope, then what ARE you looking for?

Why is it beside the point, then? Go ahead, explain it. "I think you know" not being good enough to do so, in this case.

You say the question was bad. But, you seem to clearly understand the problem with pushing a rope. Yup, I think you know why we can't do it.

Still sloppy.

I can push a rope any way any how. I can push it with a mule and a plow. I can push it while I eat. I can push it with my feet. I can push it upside down. I can push it all around. I can push it while on the phone. I can push it until the cows come home. I can push it under water. I can push it across a teeter-totter. I can push it with a stick. I can push it with my ****. I can push it with a bar of soap. I can push it with another piece of rope. I can push a rope all day long. I can push it while singing the Barney song.

"Pushing a rope" is no big deal.

You cannot push a rope. You explain why you can't.

I explained why you can't push a heavy object from a distance with a fully extended flexible rope.

No-one can push a rope. That makes it a great answer imho, b/c you can't sit there and find an answer. Because pushing a rope is beyond the present limits of our knowledge.

Not my knowledge.

I can push a rope through Occhi's beer. I can push it past a M'eer. I can push it most gloriously. I can push it uphill laboriously. I can push it while tightly clutching it. I can push it without even touching it.

Pushing a rope is not beyond present knowledge. A one year old could do it. What seems to be beyond present knowledge is adding enough detail to communication to convey a complete idea CLEARLY. That's not a step you can afford to skip.

KoP illustrated that.

He "didn't make the leap across the chasm of your incomplete idea" and I stepped in to tell him not to worry, because if he has to make such a leap in the first place, that definitely throws into doubt the value of the place he would be leaping to.

He said "at the risk of sounding stupid". That was the catch phrase for me that set me off, because the presumption that the fault would lie with him for not following something that does not follow... that was too much.

>>I take you on good faith

It didn't appear that way. Let's see what you said.

>>That may be akin to flat-earthers saying,

Eh, i don't read that as taking me on good faith. I may be misreading that, but it does not come across as being in good faith to me.

Oh, it's not. Not wholly, not any more. Started out that way, though. Even continued right on through your spat with Pete. "Not feeling welcome in these parts" was a comment I had some sympathy toward. But then things started to shift. You showed inconsistency, at which point I could no longer trust my thought process to match yours, with you handing out pronouncements of what is or isn't "beside the point" while not having detailed what the point is supposed to be.

I believe that the possibility of a rope answer exists

What "rope answer"? You keep referring to a "widget" without having ever defined a widget. My sarcasm about pushing a rope is not wholly derisive. KoP was right, you can push a rope from the side while it's extended, and any number of thousands, millions of other ways to "push a rope".

You HAVE to be more specific.

But, you don't know everything. So the possibility exists of another answer.

That's the non sequitur.

That I don't know "everything" is not relevant to the issue of rope. You're implying that not knowing everything means never able to be certain about anything. I do not stipulate that. Quite the contrary.

You seem to have some idea what it is about, what will another example do to help you eh?

Sloppy AND lazy? Grand.

Conveying only enough detail that the other person "has some idea" what you are talking about is a LOW standard to hold for communication.

I'll go as far as to say that the Significant Figures of the measurements of your results here do not extend far enough down in decimal places to reach a meaningful level of detail. You're talking about pushing the envelope of knowledge, but to do that you need precise tools and honed skills in using them. "Pushing a rope" does not qualify in my book as precise enough of a question to make any headway.

You seem to be misunderstanding me when I say that your CONCEPT is fine. You're reading that to extend to your exploration of the concept, but that (IMO) is not fine. Rather it's leaving something to be desired, and I took the opportunity to elaborate on this when KoP stepped up to point it out.

-=Aliens=-

You know, they were never the point. I laughed when you brought them up as a witty conclusion.

No, I don't know that. I don't have a clue what your point here is. I know what you stated, and I can -guess- through the blur, but guesses can be wrong.

(You getting the message here yet?)

And no, that was not a witty conclusion. I was quite serious about it. If we can't even communicate with one another, when we share many similarities in our frames of reference, how are we going to begin to understand a truly ALIEN mindset? (Ever read any Gordon R. Dickson? If not, you've been missing out).

I can push a rope up some stairs. I can push it while I eat eclairs. I can push it through the catacombs. I can push it around newly built homes. I can push it with whips and chains. I can go on and on and on, at great pains. I can push it until I make people sick. I can push it easily, without any trick.

- Sirian

 Respond to this message
Responses

1. Patients grasshopper - Linger on Apr 17, 9:23 AM
1. here we are. - Linger on Apr 17, 6:52 PM
1. Re: here we are. - Sirian on Apr 18, 12:31 AM
1. I disagree, as reader and writer, with a point you made - Occhi on Apr 18, 8:32 AM
1. Grin - Sirian on Apr 18, 5:04 PM
2. I disagree, as reader and writer, with a point you made - Occhi on Apr 18, 8:36 AM
1. I think you're both right - Pete on Apr 18, 10:42 AM
3. Clear and Concise - Linger on Apr 19, 9:29 AM

2. Knot Through My Lone Star Beer, eh? - Occhi on Apr 17, 10:57 AM
1. not so fast there! - Griselda on Apr 17, 1:45 PM
1. AH, but you see, since he had paid the rental fee - Occhi on Apr 17, 2:09 PM
1. ok, but - Griselda on Apr 17, 2:27 PM
1. No - Occhi on Apr 17, 4:08 PM
1. Law Jick? - Sirian on Apr 17, 5:14 PM
1. Bravo!!! - Occhi on Apr 18, 5:59 AM

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